Kissing on the lips during the sign of peace

[Bookcat]

I would say that part of the problem is when some families go to Mass, viewing themselves as a self-contained unit, to the exclusion of others around them. Some families will hardly bother with those around them, or just add them on as an afterthought after they have finished enthusing over their own family members.

(so as not to repeat -see my posts way above)

Interesting point. Think in relation to this about St Paul’s discussion about the “Agape feasts” that happened in the early Church – and how in that one community people brought their own food etc And were excluding others etc–what did he say?

He told them to eat their own food at home…

Perhaps he might say – kiss and embrace all your personal family at home -this is the Eucharist - instead let us greet all those near by with a “sober” sign of peace -not as biological family as important as that is -but as brothers in Christ -in the virtue of charity.

 

[LROH]

Exactly Bookcat…

We each have duties to ourselves, spouse, children, jobs, community ROLES that exist with a set of rules that doesn’t change anywhere on earth we go…that is our Church. The language or interpretation may change but the underlying rules remain the same. So no matter where I go, no matter what they speak, bow, nod, hand shake or not at the sign of the peace I will know I have been welcomed by a fellow Catholic and experience to the extent that we each participate Humanity on a personal level.

Would you kiss or hug your family member next in line to receive as Eucharistic Minister?
At the sign of the peace are we each called to act soberly as Catholics before other hats we may wear?

Come early…stay late to visit with friends and family…or the person who’s eyes captured your heart at the sign of the peace during Mass. Maybe this was the forth or fifth too large Parish they tried …ready to give up…ah they don’t need me.

 

[bilop]

I never thought about it that much until this thread, to be honest. OTOH, it only makes sense that the gesture should be consistent to everyone, as the whole point is to “engage in a ritual that signifies our unity in Christ”. Zab is right, it would be nice if there were more instruction.

Part of the problem is that nobody knows what the point is, of the congregation engaging in the sign of peace.

In the EF, the Pax is part of the fraction rite. In the OF, it’s just hanging out there.

God Bless

 

[pnewton]

I’ll continue pecking my wife on the lips and giving the little hug, till she tells me to back off.

Good for you (the hug, not postponing the plumbing chore).

This is such a small topic. People that worry about couples giving a hug or a peck must simply not have enough real world issues to occupy them. The Church does not go on and on with instruction because there is no need, not because somehow the Catholic Church is negligent in getting a handle of some matter of tremendous importance.

To the OP, follow the Church. You are free to do what you want, so do what you want. Your will go crazy if you try to satisfy everyone that wants to cross the line and tell you to follow their opinions in a matter where clearly your opinion is the only relevant one.

 

[HoneyBea]

Good for you (the hug, not postponing the plumbing chore).

This is such a small topic. People that worry about couples giving a hug or a peck must simply not have enough real world issues to occupy them. The Church does not go on and on with instruction because there is no need, not because somehow the Catholic Church is negligent in getting a handle of some matter of tremendous importance.

To the OP, follow the Church. You are free to do what you want, so do what you want. Your will go crazy if you try to satisfy everyone that wants to cross the line and tell you to follow their opinions in a matter where clearly your opinion is the only relevant one.

Thank you : )

I’m a bit of a rebel if people push me enough I might slip my husband the tongue at the sign of the peace lol I’m kidding! Relax keyboard warriors ; )

In all serious I actually understand the position of those who thinking kissing and hugging should be left out. They have made some good points. The one that stood out to me the was the idea that we should be offering peace and good will to are brothers and sisters in Christ and not treating them as an after thought. I am considering giving my husband the sign of the peace in reverse order. Although that may even be more distracting because everyone will be done and we will be embracing. Oh well…

 

[ProVobis]

Zab is right, it would be nice if there were more instruction.

As with everything else, be careful for what you ask.

 

[Bookcat]

It is important to remember that the sign of peace is not a time for expression of “marital affection” or “romantic signs”.

It is Liturgical sign of peace. Part of a rite.

It expresses communion within the Church and the Theological virtue of Charity --as one prepares for Holy Communion.

Now that is going to differ from place to place as noted in the GIRM

GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL

"The Rite of Peace

1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."

---------------------------------------That is the short of it.

 

[Bookcat]

It is important to remember that the sign of peace is not so much for expression of “marital affection” let alone “romantic signs”. Or even of “family bonds and love of the natural sort”.

It is Liturgical sign of peace. Part of a rite.

Which of course is to include ones family if they are nearby.

What is it to express?

It expresses communion within the Church and the Theological virtue of Charity --as one prepares for Holy Communion.

Now that is going to differ from place to place as noted in the GIRM

GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL

"The Rite of Peace

1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."

---------------------------------------That is the short of it.

And also – think in relation to this about St Paul’s discussion about the “Agape feasts” that happened in the early Church – and how in that one community people brought their own food etc And were excluding others etc–what did he say?

He told them to eat their own food at home…

Perhaps he might say – kiss and embrace all your personal family at home -this is the Eucharist - instead let us greet all those near by with a “sober” sign of peace -not as biological family as important as that is -but as brothers in Christ -in the virtue of charity.

 

[zab]

Thank you : )

I’m a bit of a rebel if people push me enough I might slip my husband the tongue at the sign of the peace lol I’m kidding! Relax keyboard warriors ; )

In all serious I actually understand the position of those who thinking kissing and hugging should be left out. They have made some good points. The one that stood out to me the was the idea that we should be offering peace and good will to are brothers and sisters in Christ and not treating them as an after thought. I am considering giving my husband the sign of the peace in reverse order. Although that may even be more distracting because everyone will be done and we will be embracing. Oh well…

I also understand the position of those who think hugging and kissing should be left out and would welcome some instruction clarifying that. My husband doesn’t spend any time on the computer getting in discussions about this and I think it would be more awkward for him if when he turns to give me a kiss that I present him with my hand. I have brought this topic up a few times. But as long as there are several different signs being given (and all in a sober manner) I think the instruction should come from those in authority.

 

[Bookcat]

In deciding what sign of peace to give - it is important to remember that the sign of peace is not so much for expression of “marital affection” let alone “romantic signs”. Or even of “family bonds and love of the natural sort”.

It is Liturgical sign of peace. Part of a rite.

Which of course is to include ones family if they are nearby.

What though is it to express?

It expresses communion within the Church and Charity–as one prepares for Holy Communion.

Now the actual possible sign may differ from place to place as noted in the GIRM

Here is what the Church says:

From the GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL (from the Holy See)

"The Rite of Peace

1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."

---------------------------------------That is the short of it.

And also – think in relation to this about St Paul’s discussion about the “Agape feasts” that happened in the early Church – and how in that one community people brought their own food etc And were excluding others etc–what did he say?

He told them to eat their own food at home…

Perhaps he might say – kiss and embrace all your personal family like a family reunion - at home -this is the Eucharist - instead let us greet all those near by with a “sober” sign of peace -not as biological family as important as that is -but as brothers in Christ -in the virtue of charity.

 

[zab]

As with everything else, be careful for what you ask.

Why is that? Do you think we would not welcome a change due to clarification? In my experience, parishioners have always conformed to instruction given. And I would be happy to do so. Be careful not to judge.

 

[zab]

What is it to express?

It expresses communion within the Church and the Theological virtue of Charity --as one prepares for Holy Communion.

1. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

It also expresses “mutual charity” as stated in the quote that you posted. People extend the Peace of Christ not only to those who are in communion with the church but also to visitors in attendance.

 

[Bookcat]

It also expresses “mutual charity” as stated in the quote that you posted. People extend the Peace of Christ not only to those who are in communion with the church but also to visitors in attendance.

Often in the early Church they would not be there… The Eucharist was under the discipline of the secret.

But yes – it can be said that we offer a sign of peace to others that are nearby.

That part of the line there – is about the* faithful *and what the sign means for them -including their “mutual charity” -before receiving the Eucharist.

Prior to that there is the part about asking peace and unity for all…

 

[pnewton]

In"
Perhaps he might say – kiss and embrace all your personal family like a family reunion - at home -this is the Eucharist - instead let us greet all those near by with a “sober” sign of peace -not as biological family as important as that is -but as brothers in Christ -in the virtue of charity.

He might? He didn’t. Speculation like this only begs the question. On always tends to answer such WWJD questions with answers agreeable to them. Such speculation is no more than a reflection of one’s own opinion, in no way a reflection of the opinion of Paul, Jesus or any other speculative authority.

Yes, everyone in Mass should be sober, even if they opt to give a kiss.

 

[zab]

And also – think in relation to this about St Paul’s discussion about the “Agape feasts” that happened in the early Church – and how in that one community people brought their own food etc And were excluding others etc–what did he say?

He told them to eat their own food at home…

Perhaps he might say – kiss and embrace all your personal family like a family reunion - at home -this is the Eucharist - instead let us greet all those near by with a “sober” sign of peace -not as biological family as important as that is -but as brothers in Christ -in the virtue of charity.

I wouldn’t try to put words in St. Paul’s mouth. You may not like what he has to say . I am talking about sharing a sign of peace (sober kiss with spouse) on my one side, stranger or family member on the other side, Perhaps person in front and/or back of me. But you keep going on with this as if families exclude everyone one else or else treat others as an afterthought. And that is not the majority of cases in my observation.

 

[HoneyBea]

I wouldn’t try to put words in St. Paul’s mouth. You may not like what he has to say . I am talking about sharing a sign of peace (sober kiss with spouse) on my one side, stranger or family member on the other side, Perhaps person in front and/or back of me. But you keep going on with this as if families exclude everyone one else or else treat others as an afterthought. And that is not the majority of cases in my observation.

I wasn’t always married and often attended church alone and never once did I feel excluded by others embracing their families. I realize it’s all subjective but I truly believe this is the norm with a few exceptions for the insecure.

 

[Bookcat]

I wouldn’t try to put words in St. Paul’s mouth.

Good thing I have not done so …(until this here post below).

He might? He didn’t. Speculation like this only begs the question…

He did…it just did not come down to us… (well actually it has been kept and handed down in my family as a secret document…book will be forthcoming)

(but actually the point was to “think about” such in those terms…it is along the same lines…one is not to be just “greeting your family” but your brothers in Christ).

 

[zab]

one is not to be just “greeting your family” but your brothers in Christ).

There you go again!

 

[Bookcat]

I wouldn’t try to put words in St. Paul’s mouth.

Good thing I have not done so …(until this here post below).

He might? He didn’t. Speculation like this only begs the question…

He did…it just did not come down to us… (well actually it has been kept and handed down in my family as a secret document…book will be forthcoming)

But actually the point was to “think about” such in those terms…it is along the same lines…one is not to be just “greeting your family” but your brothers in Christ.

Such is to “think about”.

Think about what he actually wrote in that letter and what he discussed elsewhere --and how he “might” “perhaps” mention such…tis not putting ‘words in his mouth’ but looking at the texts and thinking about such…

 

[pnewton]

Think about what he actually wrote in that letter and what he discussed elsewhere --and how he “might” “perhaps” mention such…tis not putting ‘words in his mouth’ but looking at the texts and thinking about such…

I know what he wrote and have some understanding of the context. Maybe there is some application, but it is a stretch. Their where having a picnic party, dividing along social lines, at Mass. It was more like a pot-luck supper/Mass combo, with the added twist of sharing only with your friends.

The last pot-luck Mass we had, we had to share with everyone.