Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

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kujo313:
I guess it’s a “left hand/right hand” thing. The Holy Spirit calls you to one temple. If you try another where He don’t want you, He will let you know.
Where one does healing, another does evangilism. One with the gift of healing should go to where the Holy Spirit guides them. But He cannot say that one is wrong. He should use his Gift where he is told by the Holy Spirit to use it.
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How can it be just ‘a right hand/left hand thing’ when some sola scripturists adhere to the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (ie you can’t lose salvation once you’ve accepted Christ, no matter what your sins are) and others believe that salvation will be lost if you sin? And they can both bring scripture up to prove their point?

That’s differing on fundamentals of salvation and fundamentals of Christianity my friend - and if you can’t learn to tell a fundamental truth of your faith from mere peripherals then you really will be lost.
 
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jim1130:
Peace.

You are basing your entire authority on the Bible, but what is YOUR evidence that the Bible is accurate (I am not interested in a Web site)? I want to know how YOU know, based on YOUR evidence, that the Bible is right. If you are living in the year 200 you do not have a Bible so how do you know of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit? That is all that I am asking.

Peace.
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That’s just it. I’m in the year 2006. I’m sure that tens of thousands of people have looked into with. They have much more knowledge and technology that I and you have.
Still, nobody has any evidence to prove the Bible wrong.
 
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kujo313:
I once heard “once Catholic, always Catholic.” With that, call me a Catholic who’s had a Pentecostal experience (Azusa Steet Revival. Early 1900’s).

The origional disciples of Jesus could not go into a Catholic temple to worship because they appeared drunk in the “upper room”. That kind of behavior is not allowed during a Mass.
I’ve been to Catholic funerals within the past 10 years so I know that it’s still the same old thing. I don’t know if the priest, bishops or the Pope will ever allow a “mighty rush of wind” to flow during a Mass.
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I apologize. You are Pentecostal, not Non-Denominational. So your movement started in 1906 not the 1990s.

Happy Centennial?

www.spirithome.com/histpen1.html

Me? I’ll take the Church that was founded in Jerusalem, not Los Angeles, U.S.A.
 
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kujo313:
That’s just it. I’m in the year 2006. I’m sure that tens of thousands of people have looked into with. They have much more knowledge and technology that I and you have.
Still, nobody has any evidence to prove the Bible wrong.
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Peace.

Then why do you subscribe to a 20th century denominational movement?

Peace.
 
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kujo313:
I
The origional disciples of Jesus could not go into a Catholic temple to worship because they appeared drunk in the “upper room”. That kind of behavior is not allowed during a Mass.
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Obviously you have never been to a midnight Mass at Christmas!! 😃
 
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kujo313:
I don’t follow Moody or anybody else without checking the Scriptures
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What? and Catholics don’t?!! Give us a break willya?
Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
Look it up.
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Don’t have to…I know the passage very well. It shows that they checked what they heard against the Old Testament. NT was still being written.
Acts 18:28 for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.
Show it to the “wise”
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Again OT prophesies concerning the Messiah Naturally anyone (Especially a Jew) would have to verify any such claim.
Romans 15:4 For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
They bring us comfort and hope.
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Again… a direct reference to the OT.
John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
Scriptures point directly to Jesus.
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No kidding? Still again, a claim to Messiahship that He invited them to verify from the OT. Where else would they go for such verification? The pagan philosphers? :rolleyes:
Luke 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
He showed Himself in the Scriptures.
(isn’t that enough?)
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Same thing again…
Matt 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘ The stone which the builders rejectedHas become the chief cornerstone.This was the LORD’s doing,And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
Note verse 43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
** There has been more “fruit” in the 20th century than the 2nd thru the 19th combined.**
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With the advancement of technology, we can preach the Gospel in all the world. When Jesus comes back, truly ALL eyes can see Him at the same time.
Medicines have been made and killer diseases have been cured (working on more!) Knowledge has increased as prophesysed by Daniel thanks to the computer. (Geeks working on 100 TRILLION bits per SECOND!)A passage addressed to the Jews…

Fruit? Yeah sure… I see all those backwoods guys in Africa and out in the boonies of South America, who can’t even read their own languages reading the Bible and “getting’ saved, sancitfied, and filled with the Holy Ghost” (as the saying goes…) Oh and they just tap right into the internet to get the latest preaching of the Gospel…Yeah right…
I don’t want to say that it was the Pentecostal movement within the Body of Christ that had something to do with it. Rather, it’s the Body of Christians as a whole.
** Indeed, though, we ARE in the Last Days and it was prophecised by Joel that God will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh in these Last Days. **
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Maybe the Catholic religion needs a true Pentecostal experience. I can imagine a worship service there where the people speak in other tongues and appear to be drunk.
It CAN happen there.Fruit? I wouldn’t say that (I WAS one! A/G!). They routinely disregard the straight discipline of the New Testament concerning the practice of their “gifts” and the services give way to emotionalism and disorder, which St. Paul plainly says is not of the Lord, so I wouldn’t break my arm patting myself on the back if I were you. There are times when the messages given are not from the Holy Spirit, but I never saw anyone rebuked for it. Discernment and scriptural discipline? Not where I was!

When Christ returns at the last day, every eye will see Him without the tech advances.

According to the New Testament, we’ve been in the Last Days for 2,000 years.

The Catholic Church needs “a true Pentecostal experience” like a fish needs a bicycle.

Better yet, the Anima Christi.

SOUL of Christ, sanctify me.
Body of Christ, save me.
Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
O good Jesus, hear me.
Within Thy wounds, hide me.
Never let me be parted from Thee.
From the malicious enemy, defend me.
In the hour of my death, call me.
And bid me come to Thee,
That with all thy saints I may praise thee
Forever and ever
Amen.
 
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kujo313:
To petition our Lord, you can go by yourself.
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You’re not addressing my point, kujo. We all know that we pray for one another as well; does praying for one another then undermine Christ’s one mediatorship, since when we pray for one another we invariably act as co-mediators as well?
 
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kujo313:
Me too. Acts 2
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Even the Pentecostal movement acknowledges that this movement was created in the early 20th century:

“The dimming of the Azusa Street revival by 1908 would have ordinarily spelled trouble for a young movement, especially if it were tightly organized.”

Putting a biblical word like “Pentecost” onto your movement in 1906 doesn’t make it biblical. Fact is, Christianity was around for 1900 years before Mr. Seymour and company created this denomination called “Pentecostal”.

BTW - Why have you not answered post #218?
 
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kujo313:
That’s just it. I’m in the year 2006. I’m sure that tens of thousands of people have looked into with. They have much more knowledge and technology that I and you have.
Still, nobody has any evidence to prove the Bible wrong.
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The fact that the Bible isn’t wrong (I assure you, Catholics aren’t trying to say that it’s “wrong”), doesn’t necessarily mean that it is the Word of God. I have an anatomy book that isn’t wrong, but it’s certainly not the Word of God. When, where, and how did an outside authority declare that the Bible was the Word of God? How did they know? What gave them the authority to make such a declaration to begin with?
 
the word Catholic is not in the bible
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From an earlier post by kujo. Just thought Id point out that Pentecostal was NEVER the name the disciples of Christ used.

Fictional situation:

“Bob” is an atheist. One day he picks up the bible, and after reading it, falls to his knees. Says the “sinners prayer”, and asks the Holy Spirit to come into his heart. However, after reading the bible, and after much prayer, he feels that asking Mary to pray for him is an excellent way to give glory to God. Taking different parts from the bible, he composes a request to Mary, and together with a little common sense, comes up with the Hail Mary. In fact, he has a devotion to her, with the knowledge that she will lead him to Christ. After reading the bible, Bob sees that Christ suffered many things. He sees these sorrowful parts of his life as an excellent thing to meditate upon, to grow closer to Christ. He does the same for the joyful parts of Christs life, and the Glorious parts of His life. Bob sees that Mary was closely united to Christ in his life. He divides the sorrowful/glorious/joyful mysteries into 15 mysteries. He knows that there were 150 Psalms, and therefore decides to say 10 Hail Marys for each mystery. He decides to say this devotion every day. My question to you is:
**
Is Bob a Christian?

**In Christ.

Andre.
 
Kujo, this is from another thread:
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VociMike:
if Catholics really worshipped Mary and taught the worship of Mary, he/she would not have to find out about it in a single translated quote from a daily audience. Further, if Catholics really worshipped Mary and taught the worship of Mary we certainly would not commit the blasphemy (if worship of Mary was something we believed) of denying over and over and over that we do worship her. What idiot worships (worships, mind you) a god or other being and then spends countless hours denying it to anybody and everybody? It’s crazy when you think about it.
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Did you ever think about it that way?
 
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JSmitty2005:
Kujo, this is from another thread:

Did you ever think about it that way?
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To be safe, I’d rather quote Jesus from Luke’s Gospel: “Rather, Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Jesus led the woman to a higher consideration.
I just want to think on that: hearing the word of God and obeying it. Mary did. So did John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, etc.
Jesus opened the door to EVERYBODY.

“Hearing” and “obeying”. Jesus talked about plucking out eyeballs and cutting off hands, yet, nobody did it. (It’s not written about directly or even a clue in the Word that anybody did such a thing.)
I clearly don’t see from Scripture that anybody followed Mary or even went to Mary before going to Jesus. In Acts and the letters written by Paul, James, John and Peter, nobody mentions it.
I see it as they was preaching the Gospel and stressing the “hearing” and “obeying” part. Paul even mentions Abraham doing just that.

As somebody else did post, St. Iggy DID mention Mary, but long after John was dead and could not comment on it. It can be compared to Paul, in Galatians, commenting on how they are already going to a different “gospel” and told them that if ANYBODY, even an angel, comes to them with a different gospel to not listen to it.
Paul preached Jesus. Paul taught what Jesus said and did.

John was called the “apostle that Jesus loved”. John preached Jesus. (is this not the SAME John that took Mary home with him? WHY wouldn’t he mention Mary and the importance to go to her?

Many people in the Bible pointed the way to Jesus. Yet, Jesus, Himself, tells us to put our attention on hearing the word of God and obeying.

I don’t worship the Bible, I worship Jesus. Come on over, take every Bible in my house. After I’m dead, they’ll still be here with folded pages, high-liter and pen marks, book marks and notes written in them.
Jesus said “learn of Me”. In another translation, it is written “learn from Me.” Not one person alive today is 2000 years old. So, the best we got is Scripture. None of it is disputed.
I cannot go by what somebody said in the 2nd century when all first-hand witnesses are dead and cannot correct them. But we DO have what was written.
If anybody says anything else, check the Scriptures.
 
John was called the “apostle that Jesus loved”. John preached Jesus. (is this not the SAME John that took Mary home with him? WHY wouldn’t he mention Mary and the importance to go to her?
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I would highly suggest rereading John with an eye towards Genesis, not just the first week but the entire gospel. Maybe it will dawn on you why John addresses Mary as he does in his work. i.e. “Woman” The New Adam and the New Eve.

Luke and Matthew likewise uses the OT approach to Mary. Does their recognition of His mother take away from Christ? Hardly. Yet pentacostals seem to want to. I’m always curious that as much as they can rattle off scripture quotes they have no idea what scripture means or how it is composed.

Amazingly enough as you accuse us of Mary worship the same can be said of pentacostals about speaking in tonues worship. Speaking in tongues is more important than Christ, which interestingly enough Paul admonishes against in Corinthians. Worhiping the gift more than the one who gave the gift. Paul says they are babbling and not spreading the gospel because no one who comes in can understand them and they are interrupting true worship.

Funny thing is it resembles more the tower of babble than pentacost. At pentacost everyone understood, in pentacostal churches no one understands as happened in Corinthians.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Nicene:
I would highly suggest rereading John with an eye towards Genesis, not just the first week but the entire gospel. Maybe it will dawn on you why John addresses Mary as he does in his work. i.e. “Woman” The New Adam and the New Eve.

Luke and Matthew likewise uses the OT approach to Mary. Does their recognition of His mother take away from Christ? Hardly. Yet pentacostals seem to want to. I’m always curious that as much as they can rattle off scripture quotes they have no idea what scripture means or how it is composed.

Amazingly enough as you accuse us of Mary worship the same can be said of pentacostals about speaking in tonues worship. Speaking in tongues is more important than Christ, which interestingly enough Paul admonishes against in Corinthians. Worhiping the gift more than the one who gave the gift. Paul says they are babbling and not spreading the gospel because no one who comes in can understand them and they are interrupting true worship.

Funny thing is it resembles more the tower of babble than pentacost. At pentacost everyone understood, in pentacostal churches no one understands as happened in Corinthians.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Jesus is always first. He sent us the Holy Spirit. The gift of Tongues is one-on-one between the individual and God. Public use of Tongues MUST be followed by a translation or it is sin.

“Worshiping the gift more than the one who gave the gift.”, you said. God gives, YOU worship the gift. God, alone, is to be worshipped and adored. Pius IX said to worship Mary as well as JPII. She’s a “gift”. God gave His only Son.
 
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kujo313:
I clearly don’t see from Scripture that anybody followed Mary or even went to Mary before going to Jesus.
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Why do you think she asked him to provide wine in Cana? Most likely someone talked to her about it first - may possibly have even asked her to ask him - ever thought about that?

You must have been told already that ‘rather’ in ‘rather, happy are those who hear the word of God …’ etc means ‘in addition’ or ‘also’ and not ‘instead’ - it’s not used to exclude Mary at all.
John was called the “apostle that Jesus loved”. John preached Jesus. (is this not the SAME John that took Mary home with him? WHY wouldn’t he mention Mary and the importance to go to her?
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Even if John didn’t, Jesus certainly did - ’ … this is your Mother …’
Think long and hard about that passage - there’s no indication that John’s mother was dead (most probably, being as young as he was, his mother was still alive) - yet Jesus tells John and Mary to ‘adopt’ each other. What is this if not something for all of us to learn from? Why would they need each other if they both had their faith in Jesus? They’re both adults.
I don’t worship the Bible, I worship Jesus. Come on over, take every Bible in my house. After I’m dead, they’ll still be here with folded pages, high-liter and pen marks, book marks and notes written in them.
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You’re contradicting yourself here - saying you DON’T worship the Bible yet boasting about how much you’ve read it. I would far rather die with a) worn out knees from praying (to Jesus, Mary, the saints and anyone else who can possibly hear and help me and those I love) and b) calloused hands from working for others even if my Bible was a bit less tattered.

Kujo once and for all get it through your head - relying on Jesus only will get you to heaven, but it’s like walking down the road there with a 50-pound load on your back. Going through Mary and the Saints (who have already made it to heaven and surely are willing to help just as they did on earth) is like hitching a ride in a limousine.
 
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