Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

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Even if John didn’t, Jesus certainly did - ’ … this is your Mother …’
Think long and hard about that passage - there’s no indication that John’s mother was dead (most probably, being as young as he was, his mother was still alive) - yet Jesus tells John and Mary to ‘adopt’ each other. What is this if not something for all of us to learn from? Why would they need each other if they both had their faith in Jesus? They’re both adults.
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See this is the interesting thing. Catholics believe everything God inspired in scripture is important and has meaning for our edification or He wouldn’t have said it in the first place, no superfluous bits. But Sola Scripturists are forced to believe there are lots of superfluous bits, i.e. God was just rambling. If they don’t they would have to admit what God inspired is important and there for a reason, not to just be explained away.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Jesus is always first. He sent us the Holy Spirit. The gift of Tongues is one-on-one between the individual and God. Public use of Tongues MUST be followed by a translation or it is sin.
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A. Come on…Be honest. I’ve never seen a translater at all, but tons of people all speaking in tongues all at the same time and to no edification. There were no foreigners present that needed to understand what was said. And I have never heard the Gospel preached in tongues, only pat phrases that everyone uses.
B. Can you show us in Corinthians where Paul says it is a sin?

If you really want to see preaching in tongues go to pentacost, they did a whole gospel. St. Francis of Assisi also spoke the Gospel in tongues. That’s the true gift, not some hokey malarkey.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
“Worshiping the gift more than the one who gave the gift.”, you said. God gives, YOU worship the gift. God, alone, is to be worshipped and adored. Pius IX said to worship Mary as well as JPII. She’s a “gift”. God gave His only Son.
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Hey thanks again, should I call you God sinse you seem to have the ability to read into my/our hearts?

Would you mind furnishing the quotes where those Popes said we are to worship Mary instead of Christ. You made the accusation, provide the evidence.

As for Mary, yep I honor my mother just as commanded, I couldn’t imagine breaking Gods law.

To borrow a phrase: “Don’t mess with my mother, her son is God, and He is watchig you right now.”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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LilyM:
Why do you think she asked him to provide wine in Cana? Most likely someone talked to her about it first - may possibly have even asked her to ask him - ever thought about that?

Dunno. Where was Joseph? Was it a relative of Mary that was getting married? Or was it one of her other children? (see note at bottom)

You must have been told already that ‘rather’ in ‘rather, happy are those who hear the word of God …’ etc means ‘in addition’ or ‘also’ and not ‘instead’ - it’s not used to exclude Mary at all.

It’s not excluding anybody, but INCLUDING everybody!

Even if John didn’t, Jesus certainly did - ’ … this is your Mother …’
Think long and hard about that passage - there’s no indication that John’s mother was dead (most probably, being as young as he was, his mother was still alive) - yet Jesus tells John and Mary to ‘adopt’ each other. What is this if not something for all of us to learn from? Why would they need each other if they both had their faith in Jesus? They’re both adults.

Pure religion is to take care of widows. Having Mary listed in those days instead of Joseph gives an indication that Joseph had died. THEN, according to the “rule” in those days, the woman is mentioned.

Afterwards, though, there is no evidence that what was meant was for John, himself, to care of Mary. There is nothing mentioned afterward that anybody else took her as their “mother”. None.

Kujo once and for all get it through your head - relying on Jesus only will get you to heaven, but it’s like walking down the road there with a 50-pound load on your back. Going through Mary and the Saints (who have already made it to heaven and surely are willing to help just as they did on earth) is like hitching a ride in a limousine.
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Once and for all, Jesus said to take His yoke upon us. He tells us over and over in John’s Gospel to ask God in His name and we will get it.
Jacob saw angels going up and down from Heaven, delivering prayers.
If you want to go through others in Heaven, good for you. I’m going straight to God, as Jesus said. (I think Jesus out-ranks everybody else, don’t you?)
 
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Nicene:
Hey thanks again, should I call you God sinse you seem to have the ability to read into my/our hearts?

Would you mind furnishing the quotes where those Popes said we are to worship Mary instead of Christ. You made the accusation, provide the evidence.

As for Mary, yep I honor my mother just as commanded, I couldn’t imagine breaking Gods law.

To borrow a phrase: “Don’t mess with my mother, her son is God, and He is watchig you right now.”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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We can look at the fruits of people’s ministry. Even yours.
The link to the quotes can be found in the link catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea3.asp

Borrow this: “Follow Me.” Jesus said that over and over. Can’t you hear Him? I guess not. You need somebody else to say it first.
 
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kujo313:
We can look at the fruits of people’s ministry. Even yours.
The link to the quotes can be found in the link catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea3.asp

Borrow this: “Follow Me.” Jesus said that over and over. Can’t you hear Him? I guess not. You need somebody else to say it first.
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Respectfully you said "Pius IX said to worship Mary as well as JPII."

And I asked you to provide the quotes. You linked Pius’ encyclical, yet nowhere in that document do I read the words you ascribe to it.

I appreciate your unsubstantiated polemics but it is false witness. I’ll ask yet again, show us your documentation that we are supposed to worship Mary instead of Christ. The Onus is on you, you made the accusation, provide the proof.

However I thought this would be interesting while we wait jesus-is-lord.com/pentecos.htm Care to tell us what those babbles are and where the interpreters are? Though I do admit I got a chuckle when I heard “hugala bugala”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Almost forgot, still waiting for the sin verse from Paul in Corinthians about interpreters and tongues. Or is this one of those man made doctrines?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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kujo313:
Once and for all, Jesus said to take His yoke upon us. He tells us over and over in John’s Gospel to ask God in His name and we will get it.
Jacob saw angels going up and down from Heaven, delivering prayers.
If you want to go through others in Heaven, good for you. I’m going straight to God, as Jesus said. (I think Jesus out-ranks everybody else, don’t you?)
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What do you think God is going to say to you when you do get to him? Is he going to say to you 'you disrespected, insulted and ignored my most beloved and most perfect daughter, the mother of my Son and the spouse of my Holy Spirit … the most perfect of all human beings after Jesus himself, at whose request he performed miracles before he was supposed to … who I singled out among human beings time and time and time again …

but hey, I don’t REALLY like her that much after all, so welcome in anyway?’ :confused:
 
Thanks for that link, Nicene.

This kind of babbling is summed up well in one quote from that site: “The unbiblical antics are a disgrace to Jesus Christ.”

The sounds and motions described there can be found in tribal dances in more primitive societies, like in the Amazon rainforest and the bush people in Africa as well as in the ancient pagan world.

For instance, the Oracle at Delphi was a shrine of the Greek god Apollo. In response to someone’s questions, a priestess would go into a frenzy and start babbling. An attendant priest would then ‘translate’ the babble into some doublespeak that could in some way be understood as an answer.

The cult of Dionysis used rhythmic music, whirling dances, alcohol and/or herbal drugs, and magic spells to send peoples’ souls out of their body (Greek ek stasis ) and into the presence of whatever deity or sub-deity was involved; this too sometimes caused strange sounds.

African animists, too, have long had ecstatic speech in their religions.

There are Christians since Pentecost who probably have had the “gift of tongues” but the assertion by Pentecostals that all of these people writhing and speaking in tongues are filled with the *Holy *Spirit is unlikely. Some who have left the Pentecostal churches admit they faked speaking in tongues “because of peer pressure”. Some of them could be filled with a spirit that is not Holy. To Pentecostals, all “speaking in tongues” is an indication of being “filled with the Holy Spirit”. But babbling like this is found outside Christianity and could have sources that are not holy.
 
Unfortunately this Pentecostal nonsense has infiltrated the Church under the guise of “the charismatic movement.” :eek:
 
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JSmitty2005:
Too bad that’s hard to come by these days. It’s no wonder so many Catholics are leaving the Church for the Orthodox churches.
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Pope Benedict XVI is very open to the Tridentine Mass, so I think it can only get better.
 
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Eden:
Pope Benedict XVI is very open to the Tridentine Mass, so I think it can only get better.
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I sure hope so. I don’t see why Vatican II couldn’t have just translated the old Mass into the vernacular and been done with it. I don’t think we would be having the problems of today if that’s all they did.
 
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kujo313:
We can look at the fruits of people’s ministry. Even yours.
The link to the quotes can be found in the link catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea3.asp

Borrow this: “Follow Me.” Jesus said that over and over. Can’t you hear Him? I guess not. You need somebody else to say it first.
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Did you read the entire article found in this link, or just the part quoting protestant misconceptions ?
 
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Nicene:
Respectfully you said "Pius IX said to worship Mary as well as JPII."

And I asked you to provide the quotes. You linked Pius’ encyclical, yet nowhere in that document do I read the words you ascribe to it.

I appreciate your unsubstantiated polemics but it is false witness. I’ll ask yet again, show us your documentation that we are supposed to worship Mary instead of Christ. The Onus is on you, you made the accusation, provide the proof.

However I thought this would be interesting while we wait jesus-is-lord.com/pentecos.htm Care to tell us what those babbles are and where the interpreters are? Though I do admit I got a chuckle when I heard “hugala bugala”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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You need to look into it, not just skim over it. I appreciate your unsubstantiated polemics but it is false witness. (thought you might say something sweet next time so you can eat your own words.)

Thank you for the link. Did you check out this part of the site?

jesus-is-lord.com/2_heaven.htm

Not once is Mary mentioned. Not once does it say that we have to go through her or accept her as our mother.
Yet, you do.
What is it? Too easy to just accept Christ? Does the words “born again” make you cringe? Or maybe it’s that the forefathers of your religion hid something from you or wants to control you?

cmy.on.ca/toraportions2000/vayikra/5761/tazria.htm

There is a teaching prevalent among many that Miriam (Mary) remained a virgin after the birth of Yeshua, this is called the doctrine of the “Immaculate Conception.” What I intend to do here is show, through Scripture that this doctrine is not biblically based.

Vayikra 12:1-4 {12:1} HaSHEM spoke to Moshe, saying, {12:2} Speak to the bnei of Yisrael, saying, If an ishah conceive seed, and bear a man-child, then she shall be tam’ei seven days; as in the days of the impurity of her sickness shall she be tam’ei. {12:3} In the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be B’rit-Milah. {12:4} She shall continue in the blood of [her] purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no kadosh thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.

Here G-d has given us the prescribed procedure for purification after childbirth. This procedure was necessitated because of the shedding of blood during the birthing of a baby. In fact the process is very similar to that required of a woman after her menstrual period. If therefore Miriam’s birth of Yeshua was a miraculous one and she remained a virgin, hers would have had to been a bloodless birth, thus not necessitating purification according to Torah. However this was not the case.

Luke 2:21-22 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called YESHUA, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. And when the days of her purification according to the Torah of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the L-rd;

Clearly from Scripture, Miriam had a normal childbirth which required her to perform the process which would take her from a state of tamei to that of taho
 
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a_clare:
Did you read the entire article found in this link, or just the part quoting protestant misconceptions ?
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I’m not going to waste my time and just get to the point. Together, we don’t have the time. Both of us have something better to do: preach the Gospel, reach the lost.

Until then, you can consult whoever. I’m just going to God, Himself.
Besides, it’s late.
 
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Eden:
Do you think it’s a good idea to quote from a website that denies the divinity of Christ as well?
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Oh no! G-d forbid! It’s from a Messianic Jew! They believe that Jesus IS the Messiah!
Learn from them.
 
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