Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

[kujo313]

Zooey:

From your link, above…
Oh, dear… You don’t even agree with your own :whacky: sources…
OK, OK, I’ll go quietly…

No, no! I totally agree with that. Proof that you are Spirit filled is not necessarily speaking in tongues, but the manifest of that and/or other Spiritual Gifts.

 

[kujo313]

Nicene:

Yes with a tangible real flame over their heads. I have never seen that in a pentacostal Church. This happens two times in Acts, the second time no flame, but to show Peter to bring the gospel to the gentiles. Then it doesn’t happen again. Realize that Acts takes place over many years. Why aren’t the aposltes shown speaking in tonges constantly as pentecostals do?

Did God do it to show show them something and make a point? Or is it just a side show? God did it to get their attention. Does Paul in his list of gifts place speaking in tongues at the top of the desired gifts from God? Or does he place it near the bottom?

If Paul considered it as a lesser gift compared to all the others, why do pentecostals/charismatics not only make it a requirement to be saved (not biblical) but give it such high regard? It is the opposite of what Paul teaches, so why the discrepancy?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

Good question.
Your “fire” statement is a good one. Was it a literal fire? How about Jesus saying to pluck your eyeball out or cut off your hand? WHICH parable is just a parable and WHICH should be taken literally word-for-word?
Read Acts 19. The Holy Spirit comes through again! Paul even wrote in his letters about speaking in tongues. He writes that he speaks in tongues more than the receivers of his letters do.

So, why haven’t we heard about it for such a long time? It’s the Catholic religion that has been trying to quench the Holy Spirit for a long time.
The leaders have been trying to control the people for a long time to even keeping the Bible written in Latin when hardly anybody knew how to read it.
The Catholic faith cannot understand or fanthom the power and movement of the Holy Spirit because the Catholic religion is a “control freak”:
Insisting that they hear your sins and tell you what penance to pay. Saying who can receive the eucharist and who cannot. Making ceremonies out of everything when Jesus told His disciples about prayer closets and doing things in secret. Making limits on who can be a “saint”. Inventing ways to pay some one’s way out of “purgatory”. Declaring that others are “sinless” and “infallable” when Jesus was the only one who was (and is).

I could go on and on but it would take too long.

If you want the baptism of the Holy Spirit, ask God for it yourself.
(You know how Jesus said to do it. Ask God, in the name of Jesus.)
Personally talk to Him about it by yourself. If you do that with a pure heart, it could get interesting.

 

[Zooey]

It’s the Catholic religion that has been trying to quench the Holy Spirit for a long time.
The leaders have been trying to control the people for a long time to even keeping the Bible written in Latin when hardly anybody knew how to read it.

Oh, for the love of pete…:tsktsk: This is one of the oldest http://bestsmileys.com/textinbubble3/7.gif canards!
In the 1st place, it was the Catholic Church that preserved the Bible; you would not have a Bible without the centuries of Catholic monks & nuns, working by the light of a single candle, copying & re-copying the Bible, precisely so that it would remain for those of us who came after them.
And now you go after the Bible being “kept in Latin” by the “leaders” of the “Catholic religion”?? My dear Kujo, in the 1st place, the Bible was translated time & time again, by many of those same Catholic scholars.
But, even if it hadn’t been translated, if it was in Latin–So what?? Latin was then as English (thanks to computers & the 'net) is now: the universal language. Everyone who learned to read, learned to read Latin, first & foremost. Those Latin Bibles…Some of us are still using them!!
There was no better language on earth to be sure that you & I would have Bibles, than to have it in Latin!! It was the one language that everyone knew!! It was the one language that everyone learned, not in higher education, but as children.
As late as the last half of the 19th century, in Ireland–land of my ancestors–business was conducted in the public markets in–Latin!! Yes: English speakers did not know Gaelic, & Gaelic speakers did not know English, but they all knew Latin!! They read it, wrote it, & they spoke it!!
Naturally it was the language in which Bibles were often written: there was no better way on earth to ensure that every single literate person on the face of the planet could read it!!

But, hey, http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/3.gifwhy should you behttp://bestsmileys.com/clueless/5.gif bothered with the facts?? Facts might interfere with the :whacky: opinions you insist on holding, come hell or high water, regardless of the facts. Silly me!! Whathttp://bestsmileys.com/clueless/6.gif could I have been thinking???http://bestsmileys.com/movingeyes/5.gif

---

On another note:
“O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you”.

 

[montanaman]

kujo313:

Good question.
Your “fire” statement is a good one. Was it a literal fire? How about Jesus saying to pluck your eyeball out or cut off your hand? WHICH parable is just a parable and WHICH should be taken literally word-for-word?
Read Acts 19. The Holy Spirit comes through again! Paul even wrote in his letters about speaking in tongues. He writes that he speaks in tongues more than the receivers of his letters do.

So, why haven’t we heard about it for such a long time? It’s the Catholic religion that has been trying to quench the Holy Spirit for a long time.
The leaders have been trying to control the people for a long time to even keeping the Bible written in Latin when hardly anybody knew how to read it.
The Catholic faith cannot understand or fanthom the power and movement of the Holy Spirit because the Catholic religion is a “control freak”:
Insisting that they hear your sins and tell you what penance to pay. Saying who can receive the eucharist and who cannot. Making ceremonies out of everything when Jesus told His disciples about prayer closets and doing things in secret. Making limits on who can be a “saint”. Inventing ways to pay some one’s way out of “purgatory”. Declaring that others are “sinless” and “infallable” when Jesus was the only one who was (and is).

I could go on and on but it would take too long.

If you want the baptism of the Holy Spirit, ask God for it yourself.
(You know how Jesus said to do it. Ask God, in the name of Jesus.)
Personally talk to Him about it by yourself. If you do that with a pure heart, it could get interesting.

In the real world, people don’t get MORE clueless the more they learn about something.

Bud, if you’re ever going to reach people, you’re going to have to quit ignoring what they say. Your impressions of Catholicism were forged in fantasyland or by liars. It’s that simple. What you think you know about Catholicism isn’t even distantly related to the truth. To give you an idea about how we view you, imagine if we started making all kinds of assumptions about your family based on your behavior here. What if, despite all your protestations, we persisted in believing your family was full of drug addicts and prostitutes. What if we never paid attention to the facts you gave us, and instead relied on our opinions which were based on other people’s lies?

Do that and you’ll get an idea of how we think of ignorant anti-Catholics like you.

 

[Orionthehunter]

First of all, I would like to praise all of the Catholics who have patiently tried to address the errors of Kujo based on a deep-seated misunderstanding of Church teaching regarding so many things that he keeps throwing out in a thread that was intended to deal only with Marian beliefs. After a while, I quit reading the thread with the idea that anything could be said that would change Kujo’s mind but read it as your inspiring patience and dedication to defending what the Church ACTUALLY holds as compared to what Kujo BELIEVES it to hold. The tragedy in the debate and Kujo’s insistence on holding false opinions about Catholics and the Church is overt “false witness.” I assume even Kujo understands the gravity of this sin.

This being said, I want to address one recent comment by Kujo as it actually is related to this thread.

In response to Zooey reciting the “Hail Holy Queen” where a person praying simply asks Mary to turn her heart to our travails and in her Mercy to pray to God for us, Kujo asks “what if she says no”.

Catholics believe that all Saints (including Mary) in Heaven by virtue of the beautific vision of God have perfectly united their will to God. If they refuse to pray to God for our request, we know it is only because it is not God’s will. All of our prayers include the caveat that no matter how much we desire the petition we take to prayer, we want nothing contrary to God’s will.

 

[MrS]

kujo313:

What if she says “no”?

I guess you have that bumper sticker that says:

“When God made man SHE was only joking”

.

She said YES… and I wish you all, especially kujo, a wonderful day to celebrate the Feast of the Incarnation… the Feast of the Annuciation

When Mary, Queen of Heaven, Mother of the Savior, said Yes for all mankind…you too kujo.

But since kujo wants to depend on the bible only, and Jesus only

… and Catholics have always been the first and foremost to proclaim that the bible is the Word of God

…let’s quote some of the word of God for kujo…

"Hail, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee…

Blessed are thou amongst women…;.

and blessed is the fruit of thy womb… " … Jesus

Let us not forget that “… all generations shall call her blessed…”

May the Holy Mother of God interceed to her Son on behalf of all of us, and send special graces to kujo. Amen

 

[Zooey]

MrS:

She said YES… and I wish you all, especially kujo, a wonderful day to celebrate the Feast of the Incarnation… the Feast of the Annuciation

When Mary, Queen of Heaven, Mother of the Savior, said Yes for all mankind…you too kujo.

But since kujo wants to depend on the bible only, and Jesus only

… and Catholics have always been the first and foremost to proclaim that the bible is the Word of God

…let’s quote some of the word of God for kujo…

"Hail, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee…

Blessed are thou amongst women…;.

and blessed is the fruit of thy womb… " … Jesus

Let us not forget that “… all generations shall call her blessed…”

May the Holy Mother of God interceed to her Son on behalf of all of us, and send special graces to kujo. Amen

And the same to you!!

 

[RyanL]

Kujo:

You worship the gift…

Hey, Kujo:
http://www.microtrade.org/uploads/images/Supp Educ Megaphone Pic LR.jpg

WE DON’T WORSHIP MARY!!!

I’m not sure how many times we can say it before you acknowledge it. Thought this might help get your attention.

By the way, you NEVER ADMITTED that what St. Louis de Montfort wrote was actually Catholic teaching - instead you completely sidestepped the whole matter. Would you please admit this now so we don’t have to address this again?

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[kujo313]

RyanL:

Hey, Kujo:
http://www.microtrade.org/uploads/images/Supp Educ Megaphone Pic LR.jpg

WE DON’T WORSHIP MARY!!!

I’m not sure how many times we can say it before you acknowledge it. Thought this might help get your attention.

By the way, you NEVER ADMITTED that what St. Louis de Montfort wrote was actually Catholic teaching - instead you completely sidestepped the whole matter. Would you please admit this now so we don’t have to address this again?

God Bless,
RyanL

“We”? There are millions within the Catholic religion that concider themselves “Maryologists”. Praying to her, collecting statues and paintings, making shrines about her, having rosaries around, wearing scapulars so they will “escape hellfire” (Mary supposedly said that), showing up at places saying “I will”, “I will”, “I will”.
She’s “supposedly” pointing the way to Jesus but yet people still follow her.
John the Baptist said "He (Jesus) must increase and I must decrease. He told his own disciples to follow Jesus and they did.

How would you feel if people followed you around and you said “follow Jesus” and then they kept following you? Day after day, week after week. You’d call the police on them for stalking. Upon investigating their homes, the police find pictures, paintings and statues of you. They have newspaper clippings about you and designated a whole room just for you.
They keep on coming over to your house and calling you about Jesus. Even though you point them the way, they keep coming to you instead. Some of them even bow at your feet and don’t want to leave.

Another scenerio:

I know nothing personal about you, but let’s just say that you have a son that excells in sports. How about baseball?
Your son goes straight from high school to the minor leagues! After being coached by some professionals, your son makes it to play for the Atlanta Braves.
His 99-mph fastball, as well as some awesome other pitches, can’t be hit. He pitches a 2-hitter on his first appearance!
But wait! This is the National League! He gets to bat, too! He hits two singles and a game-winning home run!

Immediatly, reporters from television, radio and newspapers flock to see you. Your son gets carried off the field and so do you, too.

Why you?

Ever hear from the parents of Nolan Ryan? Even Michael Jordan’s dad wasn’t put in a big spotlight. Even when Michael mentioned his dad or was with him, there was a photo or two. One or two interviews. That’s it. His dad stepped back and let his son be the star. Michael played all those games, made all them baskets.
Sure, Michael’s dad is known, but you don’t see old film clips on ESPN Classic. It’s all Michael.

But you know better. Popes know better than Jesus. Even though He redirected the crowds towards obeying God rather pointing towards Mary or His earthly siblings. It’s not written anywhere that His disciples followed Mary, consulted her or pointed people towards her at all.

But your religion knows what Jesus REALLY meant.

Hollywood celebrities have taken people and newspapers to court over it countless of times.

Yet, it ain’t called “idolitry” or “worship”.

You can turn blue in the face behind a megaphone but you’re only lieing to yourself.

 

[JSmitty2005]

kujo313:

There are millions within the Catholic religion that concider themselves “Maryologists”.

Speaking of Mariology, why don’t you check out this site?:

mariology.com/

 

[Psalm45_9]

kujo313:

Yet, it ain’t called “idolitry” or “worship”.

You can turn blue in the face behind a megaphone but you’re only lieing to yourself.

Michael Jordan buys flowers for his mother, and that’s good because it’s follwing the 10 commandments (something Jesus did, for if he rebuked his mother he would be contradicting himself), but if I were to buy flowers for Mary then it’s idolatry.

Non-Catholics seem to have no problem naming schools, hospitals, and bridges after our deceased presidents and build monuments to honor them; if a black man were to put flowers in the Lincoln memorial, then that’s OK. But if a Catholic were to put flowers in a shrine in Mary’s honor, that’s idolatry.

 

[montanaman]

Yet, it ain’t called “idolitry” or “worship”.

You can turn blue in the face behind a megaphone but you’re only lieing to yourself.

Now you’re starting to approach something like honesty. Does it feel strange to you?

When you start telling us what we really believe, I guess it’s only fair to tell you what you really believe. Therefore, I’ll just say it: you have no faith. None. Zip. Zilch. You don’t really believe this stuff–like many, you’ve just latched on to Christianity because it’s a good transformer for feelings of weakness. If you WERE a Christian, you wouldn’t call other Christians liars.

 

[Nicene]

Good question.
Your “fire” statement is a good one. Was it a literal fire? How about Jesus saying to pluck your eyeball out or cut off your hand? WHICH parable is just a parable and WHICH should be taken literally word-for-word?

Yes it was? The Holy Spirit gives the ability to discern, it is one of the gifts. And it’s pretty hard for you to defeat the Holy Spirit, observe:

**2: And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. **

Again you cannot discern what is a parable and what is not. Can you show me where this says this is a parable? To what is it comparing? Neither the eyeballs, limbs etc in Mt in 5 or 18 is a parable nor the passage above. I appreciate that you don’t believe in the miracles of God, “Oh ye of little faith”, but they truly did occur.

However I guess, to use one of your posts from above:

Proof that you are Spirit filled is not necessarily speaking in tongues, but the manifest of that and/or other Spiritual Gifts.

if you can’t discern, it is a sign that you don’t have the Holy Spirit, because He isn’t manifesting himself.

1: Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Spirit tested, spirit failed.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[St.Eric]

Kujo,

Bravo! Again you show your lack of scholarship. Being an -ologist is MUCH different from being an -olitor

Maryologist does not = Mariolotor or Mariolitry

ology or ologist simply means the “study of…”

For example
Sociologist= one engaged in the study of persons, groups, society, etc. (this is my field)

As sociologist studies these things but does not worship them

A Maryologist would be engaged in the study of Mary- not the worship of her. That would me MariOLITRY.

 

[Nicene]

The leaders have been trying to control the people for a long time to even keeping the Bible written in Latin when hardly anybody knew how to read it.

Did I predict this or what: Post #32

Be original, seriously. Use your own mind not borrowed from Jack Chick et. al. The sure sign of a cult, can’t think for themselves.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

If you want the baptism of the Holy Spirit, ask God for it yourself.
(You know how Jesus said to do it. Ask God, in the name of Jesus.)

Thanks but I recieved the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands:
**
17: Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. **

Personally talk to Him about it by yourself. If you do that with a pure heart, it could get interesting.

I talk to God every day. He told me to test the spirits and expose false prophets.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

If you people that are living say that you’ll pray for one another, would you pray TO another? I mean, you’re gonna go to “mom” anyway in order to get to God.
You go to “mom” first and you’ve got prayers TO her.

Oh, clement, oh loving, oh sweet Virgin Mary, pray for us, oh holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ".

Missed that did you? If you did it on purpose it is false witness. Did you do it on purpose? (which of course would be a lie and the Holy Spirit would never lie as you have just done, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth)

Do you honestly think Jesus is happy with you showing such disrespect for His mother? Honestly?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Magicsilence]

Hi Kujo, you didnt respond to my post.

But, we all miss things, so ill repost it.

Have a read through and answer the question at the end? Preferably with an explanation for your answer.

I would be very interested as to what it will be.

In Christ.

Andre.

Magicsilence:

From an earlier post by kujo. Just thought Id point out that Pentecostal was NEVER the name the disciples of Christ used.

Fictional situation:

“Bob” is an atheist. One day he picks up the bible, and after reading it, falls to his knees. Says the “sinners prayer”, and asks the Holy Spirit to come into his heart. However, after reading the bible, and after much prayer, he feels that asking Mary to pray for him is an excellent way to give glory to God. Taking different parts from the bible, he composes a request to Mary, and together with a little common sense, comes up with the Hail Mary. In fact, he has a devotion to her, with the knowledge that she will lead him to Christ. After reading the bible, Bob sees that Christ suffered many things. He sees these sorrowful parts of his life as an excellent thing to meditate upon, to grow closer to Christ. He does the same for the joyful parts of Christs life, and the Glorious parts of His life. Bob sees that Mary was closely united to Christ in his life. He divides the sorrowful/glorious/joyful mysteries into 15 mysteries. He knows that there were 150 Psalms, and therefore decides to say 10 Hail Marys for each mystery. He decides to say this devotion every day. My question to you is:
**
Is Bob a Christian?

**In Christ.

Andre.

 

[LilyM]

kujo313:

Jesus used water, too. Mmmm used fish a couple of times. Bread, too.

When he said ‘do this in memory of me’ it wasn’t at the feeding of the 5000 with fish, it was at the Last Supper. And it was wine, and indeed the unleavened bread, that he specifically said were his Blood and Body, not fish. If you can’t tell the difference between the two events then it makes me wonder how well you’ve actually read the Bible you claim to follow …

 

[MrS]

LilyM:

When he said ‘do this in memory of me’ it wasn’t at the feeding of the 5000 with fish, it was at the Last Supper. And it was wine, and indeed the unleavened bread, that he specifically said were his Blood and Body, not fish. If you can’t tell the difference between the two events then it makes me wonder how well you’ve actually read the Bible you claim to follow …

Maybe kujo is just alergic to lamb…

Catholic teaching is such that we know we have to eat the lamb… Mass is the fulfillment of the Passover.

Jesus has promised us we can receive Him daily (often) in a more fragile way than even His presence in the womb… which we should be celebrating all day long today. (and every day)