Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

[kujo313]

stella95:

To Kujo, to go on with this (sorry) I must say that I converted out of Islam, a word-obsessed religion that you would probably approve of, in order to become Christian, which for me means Catholic. While I was a young Muslim I was sent to Catholic school where the incarnation meant looking at Jesus on the Cross, and looking at Jesus in the arms of the Blessed Virgin, Our Holy Mother. He was born to life and joy through his mother, who loved Him, and whom He loved. He was born to pain and eternal joy through the Cross, which tormented Him for our sake. He knows us, all of our pleasures and pains, and loves us through those pleasures and pains, despite those pleasures and pains.

So I do the Rosary, and for me doing the Rosary is a way to love what He loved–a way of loving the Mother He adored. I do not WORSHIP the Blessed Virgin, but I love her. It makes it possible for me to comprehend His incarnation as a human being in the way that contemplating Him on the cross does.

So I would say that, given your interest in the Blessed Virgin which I don’t believe is as disrespectful as you would like us to believe, you might want to get a Rosary, and do the Rosary. There’s nothing in the Rosary that should outrage you; no hint of "worshipping " our Holy Mother. Just do the prayers in clear conscience, listen to the prayers, contemplate the moments, and see what comes of it.

Been there, done that.
I do not question wether or not Jesus adored His earthly mother. Jesus had to come to earth in order to show us the way to God. In the Old Testament, a first-born lamb would be sacrificed at the altar. God would accept our “sacrifice” and forgive us our sins.
Then came Jesus.
God sacrificed His first-born Lamb. If WE accept His “Sacrifice”, Jesus, our sins are forgiven!
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. Over 300 prophecies did Jesus fulfill to prove that He IS the Messiah!

Nowhere does it say that we should be keeping our eyes on Mary. It DOES say that a virgin shall give birth, but that’s it.
Catholics go beyond Scripture and “adore” the vessel too much.

Instead of looking at the messenger, why not go directly to the Boss? We don’t need to stop anywhere on our journey to God. Jesus said that He is the only Way to God. He also said that He is the Gate (to God). Anybody who came before Him was a thief. Mary was born before Jesus. To give her more than simple adoration would be calling her a thief.

Do Mary a favor, just GO to where she points. DO what Jesus says. You, as a Catholic, don’t have to go to her for Salvation.
There is no other name for you to be saved.

I don’t want to go around and around on this. So I’ll just pray for you.

 

[LilyM]

kujo313:

Depends on what your defination of “deserving” is. Overall, we are God’s people. Thanks to Jesus Christ dieing on the cross, we no long are bound by Levitical laws and can boldly go to the Father ourselves instead of a “High Priest” doing it for us.

So you can baptise yourself can you Kujo? Pour water on your own head? You can marry yourself to whoever you wish to marry? Hold their hand and give them a ring and declare yourselves married in the sight of God? There’s nowhere in the Bible that says you can only be validly married by a priest or celebrant, after all, is there?

Sometimes, as I think I said on another thread, God works through other people - sometimes he NEEDS to work through other people - for our sakes, not for his. He created us to be dependent on others and also to be obedient.

Jesus was the prime example of this. He was alone in the Temple for three days - at the age of 12! Obviously he was able to look after himself even at that age, he didn’t starve, he had fun and taught the teachers of the Temple a thing or two by disputing with them. Don’t forget Jewish boys were legally considered to be men at the age of 13, so Jesus was nearly there. Mary and Joseph found him, he asserted his independence and sonship of God - ‘I must be about my father’s business’.

What WAS his father’s next order of business? ‘He went back with them to Nazareth and WAS SUBJECT TO THEM’. For how long? Until he was 30 years old! That’s a long time to be obedient to your mother, certainly more than most of us could handle. But he did it.

The Son of God himself found it necessary to submit himself to Mary, which he did even after he was revealed as such at his baptism. He submitted himself to her at Cana (which, remember, he did solely at her request - you seem to very conveniently forget and gloss over that point kujo). As Catholics the utmost we could do by way of respect and esteem (short of actually worshipping her as a Goddess) wouldn’t be half as much as Jesus did for her. Why, kujo, do you begrudge it, why do you seem to think that Jesus or God would be upset by it? Kujo, wake up man!

 

[kujo313]

stella95:

I just discovered this site and read the entire thread, and I’m confused. How can anyone be under the impression that Catholics worship Mary? Surely this is not typical?

And how can anyone fail to respect the virgin mother of Jesus? The mother of Jesus, the bride of God? Of course she is important! She was His mother. She carried Him, gave birth to Him, nursed Him, changed His diapers.

Kujo, Jewish men love their mothers, as they should. They do not like to hear their mothers insulted.

True. Mary was important. But she, as well as others, kept directing people to Jesus. Jesus healed. Jesus taught. Jesus corrected people. Jesus raised the dead. Jesus opened blind eyes. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!
Jesus taught of the Kingdom of Heaven and said that He was the only way to get there. Paul said between us and God, Jesus was the only one we had to go through.

In the Gospels and afterwards, we do not see the disciples going to, or through, Mary to get to Jesus. There is really nothing about her through most of Acts and all of the letters from Paul, Peter, James and John.

Did they insult Mary too by not mentioning her? No! They was just preaching the Gospel to others and answering questions from people and addressing them.
They had plenty of time to discuss Mary and her bringing Jesus into this world, but they didn’t. Overlooked? Don’t think so.
The “Catholics” who claim gathered the first “Bible” and decided what was going to be in it, had every opportunity to put in everything that concerned Mary. What is in the Bible the only thing that they found? Or did they insult Mary, too?

Sure, it’s right to see a mother proudly looking at her son and tell her “you must be very proud to have a son like that.” But let’s look at the “Big Picture”:

We’re trying to get to Heaven. Sin keeps us apart from God. God wants a sacrificial offering, so man does and God forgives us our sins.
Then God does a sacrifice.
We have the choice to accept His Sacrifice or not. If we do, He will forgive us our sins.
God’s sacrifice is Jesus.

Stop there!! That’s enough to go to God. Of course, we must carry our cross DAILY as Jesus said. But that’s enough!!

Don’t insult anybody’s mom, but looking at the Big Picture, mom can’t save you. Jesus already did that.

He is a jealous God and wants ALL of our attention.

 

[Magicsilence]

kujo313:

True. Mary was important. But she, as well as others, kept directing people to Jesus. Jesus healed. Jesus taught. Jesus corrected people. Jesus raised the dead. Jesus opened blind eyes. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!
Jesus taught of the Kingdom of Heaven and said that He was the only way to get there. Paul said between us and God, Jesus was the only one we had to go through.

In the Gospels and afterwards, we do not see the disciples going to, or through, Mary to get to Jesus. There is really nothing about her through most of Acts and all of the letters from Paul, Peter, James and John.

Did they insult Mary too by not mentioning her? No! They was just preaching the Gospel to others and answering questions from people and addressing them.
They had plenty of time to discuss Mary and her bringing Jesus into this world, but they didn’t. Overlooked? Don’t think so.
The “Catholics” who claim gathered the first “Bible” and decided what was going to be in it, had every opportunity to put in everything that concerned Mary. What is in the Bible the only thing that they found? Or did they insult Mary, too?

Sure, it’s right to see a mother proudly looking at her son and tell her “you must be very proud to have a son like that.” But let’s look at the “Big Picture”:

We’re trying to get to Heaven. Sin keeps us apart from God. God wants a sacrificial offering, so man does and God forgives us our sins.
Then God does a sacrifice.
We have the choice to accept His Sacrifice or not. If we do, He will forgive us our sins.
God’s sacrifice is Jesus.

Stop there!! That’s enough to go to God. Of course, we must carry our cross DAILY as Jesus said. But that’s enough!!

Don’t insult anybody’s mom, but looking at the Big Picture, mom can’t save you. Jesus already did that.

He is a jealous God and wants ALL of our attention.

Lets take this from a different angle.

Suppose you were a jew in the time of Christ.

He came, you heard him teach, and grew close to Him.

He then was taken and killed for all of makind.

You gather around, the apostles and Mary by your side, all filled with the Holy Spirit, doing all that people ask them.

Are you telling me you WOULDNT ask them to pray for you.

These champions of the faith, the pillars of strength made strong through the power of the Holy Spirit, upon which our Lord chose to build his early Church.

Mary was the mother of Christ, she was with Him for 33 YEARS. The apostles saw him for 33 months at best.

Ask yourself whom would know Christ better.

If Mary were physically alive on earth today I know I would be begging her to pray for me, knowing the intimate relationship she had with Her Son. Can you honestly say you wouldnt ask her to pray for you???

Why is it so different that now she is physically alive in heaven?

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[kujo313]

LilyM:

So you can baptise yourself can you Kujo? Pour water on your own head? You can marry yourself to whoever you wish to marry? Hold their hand and give them a ring and declare yourselves married in the sight of God? There’s nowhere in the Bible that says you can only be validly married by a priest or celebrant, after all, is there?

Sometimes, as I think I said on another thread, God works through other people - sometimes he NEEDS to work through other people - for our sakes, not for his. He created us to be dependent on others and also to be obedient.

Jesus was the prime example of this. He was alone in the Temple for three days - at the age of 12! Obviously he was able to look after himself even at that age, he didn’t starve, he had fun and taught the teachers of the Temple a thing or two by disputing with them. Don’t forget Jewish boys were legally considered to be men at the age of 13, so Jesus was nearly there. Mary and Joseph found him, he asserted his independence and sonship of God - ‘I must be about my father’s business’.

What WAS his father’s next order of business? ‘He went back with them to Nazareth and WAS SUBJECT TO THEM’. For how long? Until he was 30 years old! That’s a long time to be obedient to your mother, certainly more than most of us could handle. But he did it.

The Son of God himself found it necessary to submit himself to Mary, which he did even after he was revealed as such at his baptism. He submitted himself to her at Cana (which, remember, he did solely at her request - you seem to very conveniently forget and gloss over that point kujo). As Catholics the utmost we could do by way of respect and esteem (short of actually worshipping her as a Goddess) wouldn’t be half as much as Jesus did for her. Why, kujo, do you begrudge it, why do you seem to think that Jesus or God would be upset by it? Kujo, wake up man!

At Cana, what did Jesus mean when He said it wasn’t His time? Why is it that there are no other places mentioned where Mary interceded?

Did Jesus submit Himself to Mary to raise Lazarus? to heal the lame? to raise the dead? to give sight to the blind? to die on a cross? to be beaten? to rise from the dead? to ascend to Heaven?
Did Jesus wake up early to submit Himself to Mary or to go pray to God?

After turning water into wine, the servants KNEW what happened and who did it. Nothing is written, or hinted to, that they went to Mary and said “Tell Him to do it again” or anything.

You make Mary out to be controlling and you make Jesus out to be less than perfect, that He needs somebody to tell Him what to do.

Matt 10:37
He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
That includes the Son of Man. He would not tell us to love our mother less than God if He was not going to do it Himself.

Matt 11:27
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Nobody = Nobody

John 5: 16-47

Jesus talks about His Father alot.

Focus, focus, focus!

 

[kujo313]

Milliardo:

Yes and no. Yes, Jesus did say something to that effect; but again no, since if you take the scene in context you will realize He was actually praising His own mother.

Because Mary deserves it. Where is it written that it isn’t deserving of her?

Other way around. The only place where it is written that Mary DOES deserves it is in Italy. From the 2nd century until the present time, popes, bishops and other “catholics” have been discussing Mary.
In 1950, Mary ascended into Heaven. Only two ever did that without seeing death (yet).

Jesus, as human, did respect His mother. Mary, on the other hand, being a Jewish woman, did all the customs that a Jewish woman should do.
Why?
Because she wanted to be obedient to God’s word.
Why?
So she can get to Heaven.

Being obedient to God meant doing what Jesus said to do AND accepting Him as her Savior like everybody else.

 

[kujo313]

Magicsilence:

Lets take this from a different angle.

Suppose you were a jew in the time of Christ.

He came, you heard him teach, and grew close to Him.

He then was taken and killed for all of makind.

You gather around, the apostles and Mary by your side, all filled with the Holy Spirit, doing all that people ask them.

Are you telling me you WOULDNT ask them to pray for you.

These champions of the faith, the pillars of strength made strong through the power of the Holy Spirit, upon which our Lord chose to build his early Church.

Mary was the mother of Christ, she was with Him for 33 YEARS. The apostles saw him for 33 months at best.

Ask yourself whom would know Christ better.

If Mary were physically alive on earth today I know I would be begging her to pray for me, knowing the intimate relationship she had with Her Son. Can you honestly say you wouldnt ask her to pray for you???

Why is it so different that now she is physically alive in heaven?

In Christ.

Andre.

Go ahead and pray. I ask everybody to do so as I will, too.

But there is a difference! You can ask for an intercessor to Jesus.

I, too, can ask for an intercessor… ask somebody to go to God on my behalf.

But it doesn’t HAVE to be Mary.

If Mary was alive today, how many times could she tolerate people going to her first before she says “Don’t come to me, go to Him”? Afterall, she’s supposed to be pointing people to Jesus.
Suppose you work at a radio station and are sponsoring a concert. The radio station announces on the air to call for tickets. You, answering the phone, give people the only phone number to Ticketmaster to get their special tickets.
How many times will you give out Ticketmaster’s phone number before you just put it on your answering machine instead of answering all them calls?

Radio station ===> Ticketmaster ===> concert.

Why not:

Ticketmaster ===> concert.

Just go to God and leave the earthly squabbles behind.

 

[Magicsilence]

kujo313:

Go ahead and pray. I ask everybody to do so as I will, too.

But there is a difference! You can ask for an intercessor to Jesus.

I, too, can ask for an intercessor… ask somebody to go to God on my behalf.

But it doesn’t HAVE to be Mary.

If Mary was alive today, how many times could she tolerate people going to her first before she says “Don’t come to me, go to Him”? Afterall, she’s supposed to be pointing people to Jesus.
Suppose you work at a radio station and are sponsoring a concert. The radio station announces on the air to call for tickets. You, answering the phone, give people the only phone number to Ticketmaster to get their special tickets.
How many times will you give out Ticketmaster’s phone number before you just put it on your answering machine instead of answering all them calls?

Radio station ===> Ticketmaster ===> concert.

Why not:

Ticketmaster ===> concert.

Just go to God and leave the earthly squabbles behind.

Kujo, you dont realise it. But you have JUST taken the first step to understanding!

Mary is nothing but the best intercessor there is. She is not another way to the Father, but an intercessor to Christ.

You are right, Mary probably could only tolerate a certain number of requests when she was on earth.

Now she rests in heaven, what is impossible for God?

You have admitted there is no problem with praying to an intercessor to pray for us.

Going back to your example. Suppose we knew one of the dj’s performing on the radio station and the tickets were really hard to get hold of. Mary is our dj (never thought id say that), she is our inside man (never thought id say that either), united to Christ through his life and death, she is ready to pray for us night and day, even when we have given up and are in despair.

So basically, you dont have a problem with it at all.

Wow, i think we just resolved the problem, yay, you agree!

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[LilyM]

kujo313:

At Cana, what did Jesus mean when He said it wasn’t His time? Why is it that there are no other places mentioned where Mary interceded?

Well he could only perform ONE first ever miracle couldn’t he? And he did it at her request. You certainly can’t show that he didn’t do others for her as well. For how many other people did he do a miracle when it ‘wasn’t his time’ anyway? I don’t see any.

Did Jesus submit Himself to Mary to raise Lazarus? to heal the lame? to raise the dead? to give sight to the blind? to die on a cross? to be beaten? to rise from the dead? to ascend to Heaven?

He submitted himself to her by being made flesh of her flesh - sharing her blood in the womb for nine months, her body for many months more. His Incarnation (which she had to willingly consent to, remember) was certainly a greater miracle than healing the sick or even raising the dead, both of which had been done by prophets before him.

Did Jesus wake up early to submit Himself to Mary or to go pray to God?

Jesus turned away from the Temple where he was ‘doing his father’s business’ (and doubtless praying to him as well) to do the equally important business of allowing Mary to teach him and raise him.

You make Mary out to be controlling and you make Jesus out to be less than perfect, that He needs somebody to tell Him what to do.

Jesus was absolutely perfect - in his obedience to and unity of purpose with his earthly mother as well as his Heavenly Father.They (Mary and God) were both instrumental to the work of salvation, though in different degrees. Jesus did what she asked at Cana because he wanted to honour her. It’s called love, kujo. There’s no controlling in the matter, unless you think anything that a child does for their mother must be because the mother is controlling? That offhand word is very revealing about your own attitudes kujo.

You are the one who called Jesus and God ‘jealous’, in exactly so many words. How could God be a Trinity, how could God consent to take on the inferior and limited human form, if he was as proud and jealous as you make him out to be? After all we give God the Father precedence don’t we? Isn’t he the one we pray to in the Our Father? Shouldn’t the Son and the Spirit get jealous then?

Matt 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. That includes the Son of Man. He would not tell us to love our mother less than God if He was not going to do it Himself.

Certainly we don’t love either our own parents or Mary more than God, and however many times you say we do it won’t make it any truer. It simply is NOT an either/or situation, it’s increasing our love for both of them at the same time! They have never EVER been in opposition to each other, never in their lives, and they aren’t now either.

I and most Catholics would believe that any honour done to Mary short of calling her a Goddess IS also honour to Jesus and God. Remember he said ‘love one another as I have loved you’ How much do you think Jesus, who is God and therefore all-loving, loved Mary? Enough to choose her among all other women who ever have been or ever will be as his mother and make himself vulnerable to her as a child for all those years? That’s more power than he gave to any other human being, and more love than he showed for anyone else. We are to at least try to love her and respected her as HE loved her and respected her.

Jesus did NOT say he loves everyone equally and honours everyone equally, simply that all his followers have a share in his glory. Mary was his most perfect follower, of course she has the largest share in His glory. The Kingdom of Heaven is a kingdom, not a communist democracy, all its members aren’t the same.

Jesus talks about His Father alot.
Focus, focus, focus!

And he and the Father both DO more through and for Mary and show her MORE honour than they did to any other human being. NOT the same as - more than. Reread that ‘happy the womb that bore you …’ comment, and know that Mary is ALSO the most perfect ‘hearer and doer’ of the word of God. Never makes one mistake or complaint,never misunderstands, not once. Unlike every other one of his followers.

Focus on that in the midst of all your focusing.

 

[kujo313]

Magicsilence:

Kujo, you dont realise it. But you have JUST taken the first step to understanding!

Mary is nothing but the best intercessor there is. She is not another way to the Father, but an intercessor to Christ.

You are right, Mary probably could only tolerate a certain number of requests when she was on earth.

Now she rests in heaven, what is impossible for God?

You have admitted there is no problem with praying to an intercessor to pray for us.

Going back to your example. Suppose we knew one of the dj’s performing on the radio station and the tickets were really hard to get hold of. Mary is our dj (never thought id say that), she is our inside man (never thought id say that either), united to Christ through his life and death, she is ready to pray for us night and day, even when we have given up and our in despair.

So basically, you dont have a problem with it at all.

Wow, i think we just resolved the problem, yay, you agree!

In Christ.

Andre.

Word says that Jesus is the “only” “inside man” we need.
Anybody wants to pray, go for it. Anybody specific i want to pray for me, I’ll ask them.
Anybody to pray to? Just God, in Jesus’ name.

It is obvious that you have a special adoration to Mary. IF and HOW I do is up to me. However, it’s still the same: we can to directly to God. We don’t have to ask anybody.

Peace.

 

[Magicsilence]

kujo313:

Word says that Jesus is the “only” “inside man” we need.
Anybody wants to pray, go for it. Anybody specific i want to pray for me, I’ll ask them.
Anybody to pray to? Just God, in Jesus’ name.

It is obvious that you have a special adoration to Mary. IF and HOW I do is up to me. However, it’s still the same: we can to directly to God. We don’t have to ask anybody.

Peace.

Amen.

Jesus is our inside man yes, but how do you get to Him?

Mary is our signpost.

But without it, we might get lost.

Of course no one HAS to pray to saints.

You can just go to God if you like.

I think we agree Kujo.

No problems here then.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[kujo313]

Jesus is our inside man yes, but how do you get to Him?

Mary is our signpost.

But without it, we might get lost.

Of course no one HAS to pray to saints.

You can just go to God if you like.

John 10:7 I am the door of the sheep.

John 14
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 12: 32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

Don’t need the signpost, thank you. I’ve read in the “map” that Jesus is the Way. I’ll follow that Highway to Heaven.

Peace.

 

[Marilena]

Church Militant:

There are too many errors in this post to refute on the thread it was posted on, so I have opened this one so that Kujo will see that he’s been fed a long line of a-C malarkey.

I thought Kujo was that bad dog in the book of the same name
by Stephen King. ( spelt Cujo on the book )

 

[kujo313]

Marilena:

I thought Kujo was that bad dog in the book of the same name
by Stephen King. ( spelt Cujo on the book )

“Cujo” is the bad dog. “Kujo” has been here longer.

 

[Marilena]

“Cujo” is the bad dog. “Kujo” has been here longer.

Lol

 

[LilyM]

Marilena:

I thought Kujo was that bad dog in the book of the same name
by Stephen King. ( spelt Cujo on the book )

Oh our kujo has similarities - just as mad.

Kujo, have you never heard the joke where the man prays to be saved from a flood that’s threatening his house? Two boats and a helicopter come past, each offering to take him to safety, he says ‘No thanks, I have faith in God! He will save me!’

Needless to say he drowns, and when he gets to the Pearly Gates says ‘God, you promised you’d save me, why didn’t you?’ God says ‘I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you want?’

Kujo, you’re the drowning man, drowning in your own ‘me and God are buddies and he’ll save me on my terms’ arrogance. You’re ignoring all the boats and helicopters God is sending in the form of Mary and the Saints. If you ignore them he won’t send any more.

Look at what Jesus DID and let that be your guide. He gave an enormous amount of power over to his disciples. He assigned to them his power to cure people and cast out demons. He gave them the power to bind and loose, and to forgive sins. He gave Peter the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and built his Church on him. He performed miracles out of love and respect for them. These are not trifles.

Didn’t he say ‘love one another as I have loved you?’ Part of love (Jesus’ style of love anyway - not so sure about yours) is not just superficially professing respect but really showing it. Why are you treating those closest to Jesus who he loved like brothers like they’re just so much chopped liver when HE so clearly didn’t? HE had deep profound and real respect for them and used them in his plan of salvation. I don’t see any willingness to follow his example on your part.

Now answer me a few questions. Do you believe you can pour water over your own head and baptise yourself? If not, why not? Do you believe you can take someone’s hand and give them a ring and without pastor or celebrant be married in the sight of God? If not why not? Do you believe that you personally can pick up any old bread and wine and bless it and it becomes a recreation of the Last Supper as Jesus commanded us to do? If not why not?

If you believe another person is necessary for any of these things then you acknowledge that you go to Jesus and God THROUGH other people - and in fact that sometimes you NEED to do so. If sinful ordinary old humans become vehicles for so much of God’s grace then how much more would the glorified in heaven?

One final question. What did Jesus mean when he said to the apostles ‘who hears you hears me’? Who do you think speaks with that sort of authority to us today - after all the Apostles are all long dead and gone and the Bible is an imperfect record at best of what they said, did and believed.

 

[Marilena]

LilyM:

Oh our kujo has similarities - just as mad.

"Needless to say he drowns, and when he gets to the Pearly Gates says ‘God, you promised you’d save me, why didn’t you?’ God says ‘I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you want?’

Kujo, you’re the drowning man, drowning in your own ‘me and God are buddies and he’ll save me on my terms’ arrogance. You’re ignoring all the boats and helicopters God is sending in the form of Mary and the Saints. If you ignore them he won’t send any more."

Don’t be so harsh in your words to Kujo. It is not up to us to say whether or not he is a “drowning man” Judgement is up to God, not us. He has the final say, we do not. Remember what Jesus said: Judge not lest ye be judged". No one can state Kujo is
“mad” I only made the point about the book because of the name,
not to state he is “mad”. Remember, conduct yourself with charity
and love for your fellow man. God rewards us all for our behavoir.
Good or bad.

 

[LilyM]

Marilena:

LilyM:

Oh our kujo has similarities - just as mad.

"Needless to say he drowns, and when he gets to the Pearly Gates says ‘God, you promised you’d save me, why didn’t you?’ God says ‘I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you want?’

Kujo, you’re the drowning man, drowning in your own ‘me and God are buddies and he’ll save me on my terms’ arrogance. You’re ignoring all the boats and helicopters God is sending in the form of Mary and the Saints. If you ignore them he won’t send any more."

Don’t be so harsh in your words to Kujo. It is not up to us to say whether or not he is a “drowning man” Judgement is up to God, not us. He has the final say, we do not. Remember what Jesus said: Judge not lest ye be judged". No one can state Kujo is
“mad” I only made the point about the book because of the name,
not to state he is “mad”. Remember, conduct yourself with charity
and love for your fellow man. God rewards us all for our behavoir.
Good or bad.

My apologies Marilena, chalk it up to tiredness (it’s 1am here in Oz) and perhaps some frustration as well :banghead:

I do not think kujo is (or any of us are) irredeemable by any means. If I did I wouldn’t bother posting here. But he has his stubborn points and blind spots like many of us (myself included fully). And there are times when only harsh words will make us aware of them

 

[BarrenCross]

There is no way to God other than Jesus. We are not to worship idols or graven images. Bowing down before a statue of any person, including Mary is not in agreement with God’s law. Yes she was the mother of Jesus, and yes she was obviously favored. But, she is not part of the Trinity, she is not to be worshiped in any manner. Placing her in equality with Jesus, or any othe part of the Trinity is blasphemy.

This is how most of us protestants see catholics who appear to worship Mary. Do you worship Mary???

 

[Marilena]

BarrenCross:

There is no way to God other than Jesus. We are not to worship idols or graven images. Bowing down before a statue of any person, including Mary is not in agreement with God’s law. Yes she was the mother of Jesus, and yes she was obviously favored. But, she is not part of the Trinity, she is not to be worshiped in any manner. Placing her in equality with Jesus, or any othe part of the Trinity is blasphemy.

This is how most of us protestants see catholics who appear to worship Mary. Do you worship Mary???

Nope. I do respect her though. Bowing down to her? No. I do not place her as equal to God. Do I have a devotion to her? Yes. It is
not worship. Are you devoted to your parents, or someone you love? Indeed, it would be proper. Catholics do not worship Mary.
We respect her, and love her because she is the mother of our
Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. We do not bow down to statues
of her. Who here said she was “equal” to Jesus? Not I. The Trinity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Mary is a wonderful
mother, and she is to be respected, and rightfully so. Worshipped? No.