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MrS
Guest
or as Fr Corapi might say… a good kick in the butt
Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)
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MrS
Guest
you should see the presentation of Lourdes… we even have statues worshipping statues…
but you have to be Catholic to appreciated the humor…actually, you should spend your time here re-reading the thread, and not just jumping in with questions that have been reasonably and theologically answered numerous times… both here and through-out Church History.
Your misconceptions of Catholicism are common among our separated brethren… so now you are in the right spot for right answers… what you may do with answers remains to be seen.
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magdelaine
Guest
This thread has been helpful to me personally. Kujo, thank you. The holy Spirit has been working through you, and I pray that you will not continue in your stubborness and simply allow the Spirit to open your heart.
Since coming into the Church, I’ve had a hard time figuring out the “Mary” thing. It clearly wasn’t neccessary, but praying to Mary seemed to be so effective for others. The only time I bow in Church is toward the Crucifix over the altar as I acknowledge the Lordship of our Savior, and I pray directly to God. Mary, and other Saints, seem beyond my comprehension. I’m not happy with that though, and I will tell you why.
I went through a nasty divorce and custody battle with my eldest son which eventually culminated in his abduction. Although I could not pray to Mary for myself, I did, on many occasions, commend my son to her so that she may watch over and protect him. I know from the results (including his being returned after only a month though he was taken overseas), especially from the increase in holiness in my son directly after my prayers, that something special was happening. I want more of this for my son, so “mother love” is teaching me to love the Mother.
That’s why this thread is helping me, because the witness of others is increasing my understanding and opening my heart. Thank you!
Since coming into the Church, I’ve had a hard time figuring out the “Mary” thing. It clearly wasn’t neccessary, but praying to Mary seemed to be so effective for others. The only time I bow in Church is toward the Crucifix over the altar as I acknowledge the Lordship of our Savior, and I pray directly to God. Mary, and other Saints, seem beyond my comprehension. I’m not happy with that though, and I will tell you why.
I went through a nasty divorce and custody battle with my eldest son which eventually culminated in his abduction. Although I could not pray to Mary for myself, I did, on many occasions, commend my son to her so that she may watch over and protect him. I know from the results (including his being returned after only a month though he was taken overseas), especially from the increase in holiness in my son directly after my prayers, that something special was happening. I want more of this for my son, so “mother love” is teaching me to love the Mother.
That’s why this thread is helping me, because the witness of others is increasing my understanding and opening my heart. Thank you!
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Nicene
Guest
I thought you said the only way was through Jesus. Why are you interceding with a prayer? As you said, only Jesus can intercede.
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Nicene
Guest
So we really didn’t need the apostles to go evangelize, or you for that matter correct? Jesus is the way the truth and the life, therefore we don’t need others, such as yourself to preach to us right; priesthood of all believers?
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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stella95
Guest
It’s a human need to pray for others. As I said, I was Muslim, and even Muslims go to gravesites and pray for the people buried there. It’s a human need. We are social animals. We have compassion for one another. We intercede.
When you are doing the rosary, you are asking for Mary’s intercession in the same way you would ask your relatives to pray for you during a time of sickness, with this difference: she was the mother of Jesus and the bride of God. We know she is in heaven.
The assumption seems to be that it is OK to ask people on earth to pray for us and intercede for us, but it is not OK to ask the Holy Mother and the saints to intercede for us and pray for us.
I don’t know, that almost shows a lack of belief in the afterlife. These people of God are alive and well in heaven, more alive and well than our friends and relatives here. Kujo, would you ask your relatives to pray for you if you were ill? If one of them offered to pray for you would you tell them not to do so because that was blasphemous? How is that any different than asking the saints and the Blessed Virgin to pray for us?
I have never understood the problem with this.
And, again, we do not worship the Blessed Virgin!!! When you see people kneeling and praying in front of a statue of the Blessed Virgin, do realize that they are not worshipping her. They are begging for her intercession and showing love and respect for her whom Jesus loved and respected. Look, where I grew up we kneel before our elders and kiss their hands. We are not worshipping our elders, we are showing respect. I sometimes think part of the problem is that in the States people have become so democratized that they confuse respect with idolatry, which might be the reason why people from other cultures, like people of Mexican origin, find it easier to show their love and respect for the Blessed Virgin.
When you ask your friend to pray for you, are you worshipping that friend? When you offer to pray for others are you under the impression that you are God? Of course not!
Kujo, thank you for offering to pray for me
I need your prayers. I will pray for you, too. Believe me when I say I am not worshipping you when I ask for your prayers, and don’t expect you to worship me in return for my prayers.
When you are doing the rosary, you are asking for Mary’s intercession in the same way you would ask your relatives to pray for you during a time of sickness, with this difference: she was the mother of Jesus and the bride of God. We know she is in heaven.
The assumption seems to be that it is OK to ask people on earth to pray for us and intercede for us, but it is not OK to ask the Holy Mother and the saints to intercede for us and pray for us.
I don’t know, that almost shows a lack of belief in the afterlife. These people of God are alive and well in heaven, more alive and well than our friends and relatives here. Kujo, would you ask your relatives to pray for you if you were ill? If one of them offered to pray for you would you tell them not to do so because that was blasphemous? How is that any different than asking the saints and the Blessed Virgin to pray for us?
I have never understood the problem with this.
And, again, we do not worship the Blessed Virgin!!! When you see people kneeling and praying in front of a statue of the Blessed Virgin, do realize that they are not worshipping her. They are begging for her intercession and showing love and respect for her whom Jesus loved and respected. Look, where I grew up we kneel before our elders and kiss their hands. We are not worshipping our elders, we are showing respect. I sometimes think part of the problem is that in the States people have become so democratized that they confuse respect with idolatry, which might be the reason why people from other cultures, like people of Mexican origin, find it easier to show their love and respect for the Blessed Virgin.
When you ask your friend to pray for you, are you worshipping that friend? When you offer to pray for others are you under the impression that you are God? Of course not!
Kujo, thank you for offering to pray for me
I need your prayers. I will pray for you, too. Believe me when I say I am not worshipping you when I ask for your prayers, and don’t expect you to worship me in return for my prayers.
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pirate87
Guest
That is exactly what I was saying. I was agreeing with you kujo313. Mary is highly favored to be the mother of Jesus. Mary should be held in great respect for taking the burden and blessing of carrying the Savior of the world, however, she, herself is not the Savior of the world. Only the babe she was carrying. Mary deserves respect, but she does not deserve more respect, honor, glory, and praise than Jesus. She does not deserve worship at all. She is a human being and is sinful as every other human being except Jesus. Mary was the vessel God used to create his son, as we are the vessel today to carry Jesus within us. I do admire and adore Mary, but I do not pray to her, as I wouldn’t pray to a dead ancester. It is ridiculous. Pray straight to Jesus, and He is our mediator for God. A priest is no mediator for me to talk to God, nor is Mary. I can talk directly to Him through His Son, Jesus. That’s one reason why He came!
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Nicene
Guest
So you have a problem with Kujo praying for others as well, correct? He is interceding after all and no one needs his prayers for them, they have Jesus. His prayer, as a sinner, is useless correct?That is exactly what I was saying. I was agreeing with you kujo313. Mary is highly favored to be the mother of Jesus. Mary should be held in great respect for taking the burden and blessing of carrying the Savior of the world, however, she, herself is not the Savior of the world. Only the babe she was carrying. Mary deserves respect, but she does not deserve more respect, honor, glory, and praise than Jesus. She does not deserve worship at all. She is a human being and is sinful as every other human being except Jesus. Mary was the vessel God used to create his son, as we are the vessel today to carry Jesus within us. I do admire and adore Mary, but I do not pray to her, as I wouldn’t pray to a dead ancester. It is ridiculous. Pray straight to Jesus, and He is our mediator for God. A priest is no mediator for me to talk to God, nor is Mary. I can talk directly to Him through His Son, Jesus. That’s one reason why He came!
I also see you honor Mary
how exactly do you and your church practice that?Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Magicsilence
Guest
That is exactly what I was saying. I was agreeing with you kujo313. Mary is highly favored to be the mother of Jesus.
Correct.
“Sure Tom”
“Thanks”
Jim is a MEDIATOR to talk to God. Thats all a mediator is.
In Christ.
Andre.
Correct.
Correct
Correct
Correct
Correct
Well, had the possibility to sin, yes. We will leave whether or not she did to another thread.
Great, how do you do so?
Mary is not dead!! She is very much alive. Do you believe in life after death?
Jesus IS GOD. Or do you not hold to that. If you are comfortable approaching the Almighty Creator of all things then that is fine. All we do is recognise how sinful we are, and think it best to ask as many people as we can to pray for us. Those in heaven are glorified and ALIVE, much more so than anyone on earth. They have lived their earthly life and are there to help us.
“Jim, I have an operation today, would you pray for me?”
“Sure Tom”
“Thanks”
Jim is a MEDIATOR to talk to God. Thats all a mediator is.
Talking to Jesus IS talking to God. As long as you are comfortable you are pure enough to have it one on one on judgement day, go for it.I can talk directly to Him through His Son, Jesus. That’s one reason why He came!
In Christ.
Andre.
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Mickey
Guest
I wish that the non-Catholic posters here would take the time to read the thousands of posts here that explain what the Catholic Church actually teaches before they submit the same old anti-Catholic mumbo-jumbo over and over again.
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Eden
Guest
Agreed. :yawn:
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magdelaine
Guest
Oh, well. We all have to start somewhere!
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kujo313
Guest
Kujo, you’re the drowning man, drowning in your own ‘me and God are buddies and he’ll save me on my terms’ arrogance.
You didn’t see an earlier post where I accepted any prayers. Also, it’s never on “my” terms, it’s His. And His rules are written down for us.
Look at what Jesus DID and let that be your guide. He gave an enormous amount of power over to his disciples. \
He also gave that power to the 70 He sent out.
He gave Peter the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and built his Church on him.
Actually, Jesus is the Cornerstone. Peter said so. We, believers, are stones built on the Cornerstone, the Son of the Living God.
Why are you treating those closest to Jesus who he loved like brothers like they’re just so much chopped liver when HE so clearly didn’t?
Actuall, I’m LISTENING to them! Read what they wrote. THEN see if they followed what was written. It’d be foolish for them to not do as they told others to do.
Do you believe you can pour water over your own head and baptise yourself?
Do you believe you can take someone’s hand and give them a ring and without pastor or celebrant be married in the sight of God?
Do you believe that you personally can pick up any old bread and wine and bless it and it becomes a recreation of the Last Supper as Jesus commanded us to do?
All of that is a heart issue. God knows your heart and its ways. Legally, you need a witness.
If you believe another person is necessary for any of these things then you acknowledge that you go to Jesus and God THROUGH other people - and in fact that sometimes you NEED to do so. If sinful ordinary old humans become vehicles for so much of God’s grace then how much more would the glorified in heaven?
Reminds me: the Church is built on the Cornerstone (look it up). Peter was still a “sinful ordinary old human” and needed a Savior. He DID deny our Lord three times. No “sinless” man would do that.
One final question. What did Jesus mean when he said to the apostles ‘who hears you hears me’? Who do you think speaks with that sort of authority to us today - after all the Apostles are all long dead and gone and the Bible is an imperfect record at best of what they said, did and believed.
Last question: Matthew 7:24; Ah!! Luke 10.
Jesus sent the 70 (not 12) out and they came back with:
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
Jesus replied:
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
Jesus gave that power to 70. So, believers, followers of Jesus spoke with authority.
Today, Born Again believers have the authority over the enemy. We rejoice not in that, but that our names are written in Heaven.
You didn’t see an earlier post where I accepted any prayers. Also, it’s never on “my” terms, it’s His. And His rules are written down for us.
Look at what Jesus DID and let that be your guide. He gave an enormous amount of power over to his disciples. \
He also gave that power to the 70 He sent out.
He gave Peter the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and built his Church on him.
Actually, Jesus is the Cornerstone. Peter said so. We, believers, are stones built on the Cornerstone, the Son of the Living God.
Why are you treating those closest to Jesus who he loved like brothers like they’re just so much chopped liver when HE so clearly didn’t?
Actuall, I’m LISTENING to them! Read what they wrote. THEN see if they followed what was written. It’d be foolish for them to not do as they told others to do.
Do you believe you can pour water over your own head and baptise yourself?
Do you believe you can take someone’s hand and give them a ring and without pastor or celebrant be married in the sight of God?
Do you believe that you personally can pick up any old bread and wine and bless it and it becomes a recreation of the Last Supper as Jesus commanded us to do?
All of that is a heart issue. God knows your heart and its ways. Legally, you need a witness.
If you believe another person is necessary for any of these things then you acknowledge that you go to Jesus and God THROUGH other people - and in fact that sometimes you NEED to do so. If sinful ordinary old humans become vehicles for so much of God’s grace then how much more would the glorified in heaven?
Reminds me: the Church is built on the Cornerstone (look it up). Peter was still a “sinful ordinary old human” and needed a Savior. He DID deny our Lord three times. No “sinless” man would do that.
One final question. What did Jesus mean when he said to the apostles ‘who hears you hears me’? Who do you think speaks with that sort of authority to us today - after all the Apostles are all long dead and gone and the Bible is an imperfect record at best of what they said, did and believed.
Last question: Matthew 7:24; Ah!! Luke 10.
Jesus sent the 70 (not 12) out and they came back with:
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
Jesus replied:
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
Jesus gave that power to 70. So, believers, followers of Jesus spoke with authority.
Today, Born Again believers have the authority over the enemy. We rejoice not in that, but that our names are written in Heaven.
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Mickey
Guest
Dear kujo,
Please learn how to use the quote function so that we can understand your posts. Thank you.
Please learn how to use the quote function so that we can understand your posts. Thank you.
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LilyM
Guest
Accepting prayers isn’t the same as asking for them. Not asking is implying you don’t need them. Implying you don’t need them smacks of pride and arrogance. Paul told us to pray for each other to teach us humility.
He didn’t give the binding and loosing power to all his disciples, neither did he give the poiwer to forgive sins to them all, neither did he give the keys to the Kingdom to all of the apostles even, only to Peter.
Kujo, you know knothing about building. Jesus was the HEADstone, at the top. The rock that the Church is BUILT ON (the bedrock) is at the foundation - that’s Peter. Christ is our head, in the position of honour, but Peter is a necessary source of our strength and stability as well.
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LilyM
Guest
me either. It also seems to be presenting Jesus as a jealous two-year-old who throws tantrums if any attention is given to anyone else. All his life he was pointing attention away from himself to the Father, and delegating and referring his powers on to other people - why wouldn’t he do the same in heaven to those he loves who are with him there?
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MrS
Guest
you think that will help:nerd:
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LilyM
Guest
I find that the more I try to respond to his rambling posts the worse and more disorganised my own become - it’s catching :yup:
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Lily’s absolutely right.
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St.Eric
Guest
Michael Francis:
BIG AMEN
to that! :yup:
Here is aLily’s absolutely right.
BIG AMEN
to that! :yup:
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