Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

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Escuse me…i didn’t know that Catholics didn’t know what a sacrifice is.
Try reading the old testiment. They had to offer sacrifices to be cleansed of sin. Now–since Jesus died for us as the eternal sacrifice–we don’t have to offer sacrifices everytime we want to pray. We just simply confess our sins to Christ, ask for forgiveness, and repent. Then we can pray. All we have to do is ask for forgiveness, not say 5 Hail Marys or anything else. That is completely not Biblical.
 
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pirate87:
Escuse me…i didn’t know that Catholics didn’t know what a sacrifice is.
Try reading the old testiment. They had to offer sacrifices to be cleansed of sin. Now–since Jesus died for us as the eternal sacrifice–we don’t have to offer sacrifices everytime we want to pray. We just simply confess our sins to Christ, ask for forgiveness, and repent. Then we can pray. All we have to do is ask for forgiveness, not say 5 Hail Marys or anything else. That is completely not Biblical.
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Ahh…You have much to learn young Padwa…May the HS be with you…
 
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St.Eric:
Ahh…You have much to learn young Padwa…May the HS be with you…
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I, actually have been studying the Bible since I was 3 years old.
By the way…what is a Padwa?
 
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pirate87:
I, actually have been studying the Bible since I was 3 years old.
By the way…what is a Padwa?
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You obviously are a prodigy! A Padwa is a young Jedi in training!
 
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pirate87:
All we have to do is ask for forgiveness, not say 5 Hail Marys or anything else. That is completely not Biblical.
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The Hail Mary *is *biblical:

Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

The Hail Mary

The next prayer in the rosary, and the prayer which is really at the center of the devotion, is the Hail Mary. Since the Hail Mary is a prayer to Mary, many Protestants assume it’s unbiblical. Quite the contrary, actually. Let’s look at it.

The prayer begins, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.” This is nothing other than the greeting the angel Gabriel gave Mary in Luke 1:28 (Confraternity Version). The next part reads this way:

“Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.” This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42. The only thing that has been added to these two verses are the names “Jesus” and “Mary,” to make clear who is being referred to. So the first part of the Hail Mary is entirely biblical.

The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads:

“Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”

Let’s look at the first words. Some Protestants do object to saying “Holy Mary” because they claim Mary was a sinner like the rest of us. But Mary was a Christian (the first Christian, actually, the first to accept Jesus; cf. Luke 1:45), and the Bible describes Christians in general as holy. In fact, they are called saints, which means “holy ones” (Eph. 1:1, Phil. 1:1, Col. 1:2). Furthermore, as the mother of Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Mary was certainly a very holy woman.

Some Protestants object to the title “Mother of God,” but suffice it to say that the title doesn’t mean Mary is older than God; it means the person who was born of her was a divine person, not a human person. (Jesus is one person, the divine, but has two natures, the divine and the human; it is incorrect to say he is a human person.) The denial that Mary had God in her womb is a heresy known as Nestorianism (which claims that Jesus was two persons, one divine and one human), which has been condemned since the early 400s and which the Reformers and Protestant Bible scholars have always rejected.

**www.catholic.com/library/rosary.asp **
 
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Eden:
The Hail Mary *is *biblical:

Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

The Hail Mary

The next prayer in the rosary, and the prayer which is really at the center of the devotion, is the Hail Mary. Since the Hail Mary is a prayer to Mary, many Protestants assume it’s unbiblical. Quite the contrary, actually. Let’s look at it.

The prayer begins, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.” This is nothing other than the greeting the angel Gabriel gave Mary in Luke 1:28 (Confraternity Version). The next part reads this way:

“Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.” This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42. The only thing that has been added to these two verses are the names “Jesus” and “Mary,” to make clear who is being referred to. So the first part of the Hail Mary is entirely biblical.

The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads:

“Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”

Let’s look at the first words. Some Protestants do object to saying “Holy Mary” because they claim Mary was a sinner like the rest of us. But Mary was a Christian (the first Christian, actually, the first to accept Jesus; cf. Luke 1:45), and the Bible describes Christians in general as holy. In fact, they are called saints, which means “holy ones” (Eph. 1:1, Phil. 1:1, Col. 1:2). Furthermore, as the mother of Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Mary was certainly a very holy woman.

Some Protestants object to the title “Mother of God,” but suffice it to say that the title doesn’t mean Mary is older than God; it means the person who was born of her was a divine person, not a human person. (Jesus is one person, the divine, but has two natures, the divine and the human; it is incorrect to say he is a human person.) The denial that Mary had God in her womb is a heresy known as Nestorianism (which claims that Jesus was two persons, one divine and one human), which has been condemned since the early 400s and which the Reformers and Protestant Bible scholars have always rejected.

www.catholic.com/library/rosary.asp
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pirate was actually questioning sacramental confession to a priest, not the Hail Mary per se. Pirate, there are plenty of other threads here where the need for sacramental confession is discussed (not to mention info in the library on this website). Keep this thread on topic please.
 
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MrS:
maybe if we called it Sola Quota, he would embrace it;)
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Matt 22:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God."
Oh, you know the Scriptures. You don’t like it.
Matt 26:56
But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.”
No “traditions” mentioned here. Maybe their “traditions” WAS following the Scriptures!
Mark 12:10
Have you not even read this Scripture: ‘ The stone which the builders rejectedHas become the chief cornerstone.
Luke 24:27
Scripture says Jesus IS the cornerstone, not Peter. No wonder you want tradition.
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Note he did not use “traditions”
John 5:39-40
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
Your “rock” is Peter, not Jesus. If Scriptures reveal Jesus, tell me, name the tradition and why you need it.

Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him (the eunuch).
“Sola Scriptula” strikes again!
Acts 17:2
Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures
(not “traditions”)
Acts 17:11
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so
😃
2 Tim 3: 16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
“All”, taken from the Greek word meaning “All”. And it’s profitable, too! In what? “Righteousness”
1 Peter 2:6
Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “ Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame
Peter confesses that Jesus IS the cornerstone.

1 Thes 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.
Test against what? Tradition??

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Test? How? Verse 2
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

Read on. Oops! John does not mention Mary! Must be under T for “tradition”.

😛
 
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kujo313:
Matt 22:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God."
Oh, you know the Scriptures. You don’t like it.
Matt 26:56
But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.”
No “traditions” mentioned here. Maybe their “traditions” WAS following the Scriptures!
Mark 12:10
Have you not even read this Scripture: ‘ The stone which the builders rejectedHas become the chief cornerstone.
Luke 24:27
Scripture says Jesus IS the cornerstone, not Peter. No wonder you want tradition.
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Note he did not use “traditions”
John 5:39-40
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
Your “rock” is Peter, not Jesus. If Scriptures reveal Jesus, tell me, name the tradition and why you need it.

Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him (the eunuch).
“Sola Scriptula” strikes again!
Acts 17:2
Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures
(not “traditions”)
Acts 17:11
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so
😃
2 Tim 3: 16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
“All”, taken from the Greek word meaning “All”. And it’s profitable, too! In what? “Righteousness”
1 Peter 2:6
Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “ Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame
Peter confesses that Jesus IS the cornerstone.

1 Thes 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.
Test against what? Tradition??

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Test? How? Verse 2
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

Read on. Oops! John does not mention Mary! Must be under T for “tradition”.

😛
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Everytime “the scriptures” are mentioned in the New Testament, they are referring to “the OLD TESTAMENT” for the “BIBLE” had not yet been compiled by the Catholic Church!

Jesus Christ is Lord. AMEN AMEN AMEN. Jesus IS KING!!! . the Catholic Church PROCLAIMS THIS AT EVERY MASS. CHRIST HAS DIED CHRIST HAS RISEN CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN! AMEN AMEN HALLELUJA AMEN BROTHER!

I bet you believe that Phillip opened up a Bible and started teaching the Eunich from the Bible, don’t you?
 
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kujo313:
Cant be! because someone without sin should not have to be purified. She didn’t even die for us at all. Poor Lamb, He’s been “watered down”.
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Saving someone can have one of two meanings. It can either mean you protected them from falling, or it can mean when they did fall you picked them up. Either way you are saving the person. Whether Mary had sin does not change whether she was saved or not. The teaching is that at the time of her conception she recieved a singular grace from God that kept her from sin. It can be seen that people recieve special grace from God in the womb by looking at the story of John the baptist who was ‘be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.’ [Luke1] The Catholic Church also teaches that all grace proceeds from Christ by way of the croos to the world. This means that consequently Mary must have been saved by Christ if she was granted the grace of Christ through the cross, even if she never committed a sin.

You are the one who has watered the faith down.
 
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kujo313:
Matt 22:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God."
Oh, you know the Scriptures. You don’t like it.
Matt 26:56
But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.”
No “traditions” mentioned here. Maybe their “traditions” WAS following the Scriptures!
Mark 12:10
Have you not even read this Scripture: ‘ The stone which the builders rejectedHas become the chief cornerstone.
Luke 24:27
Scripture says Jesus IS the cornerstone, not Peter. No wonder you want tradition.
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Note he did not use “traditions”
John 5:39-40
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
Your “rock” is Peter, not Jesus. If Scriptures reveal Jesus, tell me, name the tradition and why you need it.

Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him (the eunuch).
“Sola Scriptula” strikes again!
Acts 17:2
Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures
(not “traditions”)
Acts 17:11
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so
😃
2 Tim 3: 16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
“All”, taken from the Greek word meaning “All”. And it’s profitable, too! In what? “Righteousness”
1 Peter 2:6
Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “ Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame
Peter confesses that Jesus IS the cornerstone.

1 Thes 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.
Test against what? Tradition??

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Test? How? Verse 2
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

Read on. Oops! John does not mention Mary! Must be under T for “tradition”.

😛
Click to expand...
Yet not one of these quotes refers to the new testament therefore you must reject the new testament as doctrine of men. That would also mean that you would have to reject all these quotes as well.

The Judaizers said Jesus Christ was come in the flesh from God yet Paul would not say they had the Spirit from God.

Paul said ‘hold fast to the traditions handed down to you whether by word of mouth or by epistle.’ You aparently completely ignore what Paul said. Paul also says that the Church is the Pillar and ground of Truth. Jesus says that if the do not recieve the Church they shall be as a heathen and a publican. You ignore all these quotes because you disagree with them.
 
Kujo, you seem to miss the significance of the fact that Peter’s original name was NOT Peter - it was Simon. He’s called Simon until JESUS renames him as PETER - ‘The Rock’. And THEN Jesus says ‘on this Rock I will build my church’. And THEN Jesus ALSO says that Peter and Peter alone is to get the ‘keys of the Kingdom of Heaven’. And Jesus also says that Peter and Peter alone is to ‘feed’ the lambs and sheep - taking over as Shepherd from Christ. Not all the apostles or all the disciples - JUST PETER!!!

This is all incredibly deliberate on the part of Jesus. Short of having a neon sign put on Peter’s head saying ‘this is who I want as leader of my Church guys’ he couldn’t have been more explicit in his favouring of Peter.
 
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pirate87:
I, actually have been studying the Bible since I was 3 years old.
By the way…what is a Padwa?
Click to expand...
How can you study the bible when you are 3? How old were you when you learned to read? You honestly had the attention span when you were 3 to sit down and study the bible?
 
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kujo313:
At Cana, what did Jesus mean when He said it wasn’t His time? Why is it that there are no other places mentioned where Mary interceded?
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Yet amazingly He still did it. Isn’t that amazing? It wasn’t His time yet but when Mary asked Him to do it He did it. That only strengthens the Mary reference.
Did Jesus submit Himself to Mary to raise Lazarus? to heal the lame? to raise the dead? to give sight to the blind? to die on a cross? to be beaten? to rise from the dead? to ascend to Heaven? Did Jesus wake up early to submit Himself to Mary or to go pray to God?
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He may have, but there are no other mentions of it in the NT. However John says that if everything that Christ did was recorded it couldn’t fill all the books in the world.

If Christ did not honor her then He broke the fourth commandment, thou shalt honor thy mother and father. If He broke this commandment then He is a fraud and all of the NT is bogus. So yes, He did

Yes, He loved her less than God but that has little to do with the discussion, He still obeyed her. It doesn’t matter whether they asked Mary to ask Him again, she asked Him once and He did it. Christ is willing to listen to His mother because she is His greatest servant.
 
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kujo313:
Wow! The saints in Heaven pray to God, the people on earth pray to God. MMmmmm. Both of us going to God.
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The problem with your view is that you seperate it into two churches, one in heaven and one on earth. Neither cares about the other and neither is willing to help the other. The truth is that Christ created One Church that is composed of both those in heaven and those on earth. They both care for eachother. Those who are in heaven intercede for us on earth, and those on earth intercede for those who have died that they may get to heaven. Just like we intercede for our brothers here on earth. The same way that I may pray for my family on earth, Mary and the saints prays for us. Revelation shows the angels interceding for us. James tells us that the prayers of a just man availeth us much, who is more just than those in heaven?
 
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jimmy:
Yet not one of these quotes refers to the new testament therefore you must reject the new testament as doctrine of men. That would also mean that you would have to reject all these quotes as well.

The Judaizers said Jesus Christ was come in the flesh from God yet Paul would not say they had the Spirit from God.

Paul said ‘hold fast to the traditions handed down to you whether by word of mouth or by epistle.’ You aparently completely ignore what Paul said. Paul also says that the Church is the Pillar and ground of Truth. Jesus says that if the do not recieve the Church they shall be as a heathen and a publican. You ignore all these quotes because you disagree with them.
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The “Church” he was referring to was the “Church” of that day. The “traditions” he was referring to was the “traditions” that he, himself, taught. Check the letters of Paul! He only mentioned Jesus and the road to salvation.

I wish I could receive the Church from 50 AD and not the corrupt “church” of today.
About the New Testament back then. They had made copies of the writings of the disciples. They was first-hand witnesses.
The police of our day accepts first-hand witnesses before what “could’ve been”
 
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jimmy:
The problem with your view is that you seperate it into two churches, one in heaven and one on earth. Neither cares about the other and neither is willing to help the other. The truth is that Christ created One Church that is composed of both those in heaven and those on earth. They both care for eachother. Those who are in heaven intercede for us on earth, and those on earth intercede for those who have died that they may get to heaven. Just like we intercede for our brothers here on earth. The same way that I may pray for my family on earth, Mary and the saints prays for us. Revelation shows the angels interceding for us. James tells us that the prayers of a just man availeth us much, who is more just than those in heaven?
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Besides Jesus, how do you know that anybody in Heaven is praying? Angels ARE messengers. Look up Jacob’s Ladder.

The Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Once you die, you see Him. Either as Savior or as Judge.
 
St Eric:
**I bet you believe that Phillip opened up a Bible and started teaching the Eunich from the Bible, don’t you? **
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King James version…Dropped from Heaven into :cool: Philip’s waiting hands…
Oh! Wait a minute!! :hmmm: There was :eek: no KJV until 1611!! Maybe they had a :rolleyes: time machine??:rotfl:
 
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