AJV:
Actually Luther didn’t figure into my question at all. But now that you mentioned it I do remember hearing that tale (about Luther) before…
My point merely was- the TLM is not popular (sorry can’tthink of another word) right now and so the priests who say it most likely are the ones who love it. Imagine if it was made mandatory for the whole Church…including the many priests who commit the abuses seen so often on this forum? Not all of them are going to pack their backs and leave? And then what happens if the same mindset that makes them abuse the NO causes them to omit the consecration or other prayers. If its said sotto voce how will you know its even done? That’s all that occurred to me.
Hypothetical question as the Traditional Mass isn’t going to return
.
At least not as the normative Mass of the Church. It may well develop into a parallel rite such as the Byzantine and others, which is not a bad idea actually, and one I would probably support, but it will not return full force.
If the Traditional Mass returned as a mandate, I think you would have a huge departure of Priests, other religious and many rank and file Catholics much the same as happened after Vatican II. The current mindest of many Catholics, not only priests but everyone, is totally incompatable with the Traditional Mass,and traditional Catholic teaching, since they are by and large wrapped up in the new humanist theology that permeates the Church today. They don’t see the Mass as worshiping and adoring God as much as exalting the congregation, community building and having good social conscience. The sacrificial aspect of the Mass is totally downplayed and usually not even mentioned. How often do you hear of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass these days? Usually all you hear is welcome to the table, the Eucharistic celebration, the remembrance of the Lords Supper etc. The very ideas that the early protestants trumpeted have pretty much become the reality that we have as far as the mass goes…
Many supporters of the Pauline Rite want it to stay the way it is, rather informal, community oriented, free flowing, responsive to the community, always ready for change to accomodate new ideas and cultural norms and a sort of family affair. They would by and large have a hard time accepting the Traditional Mass due to it’s rigid form and emphasis on God and sacrifice, rather than the congregation. Also the Traditional Mass drives home the separation of the Ordained Priesthood and the laity, and emphasizes the vertical structure of the church versus the horizontal more collegial model. This would effectively cut out a lot of the lay participation in the Mass. No more Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion for one thing
Many Catholics today would have big problems with that. I have seen posters on this very forum say that if the Traditional mass was the normative mass they probably would not practice Catholicism any longer or have become Catholics in the first place.
As to the priest omiting the prayers or saying them invalidly. If the Traditional mass did come back full force, I don’t think most of the Priests that would still be around would do such a thing. remember that many would leave. I guess it could happen though… As I said over the years I never heard it done, but my parish could have been different, who knows.
But that brings up an interesting scanario. Lets assume that the priest does omit the prayers or says his own. The consecration is invalid. The congregation receives not knowing it was invalid. Have they suffered and what is the effect on them?
This question was actually posed to me many years ago in a religion class. Any comments?
Probably more often as not: Yes. Yes I do.
:angel1: