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Lee3
Guest
I’m in Sydney but our news is saturated with what’s happening in Melbourne.
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Sarcelle
Guest
I think totalitarian is defined as not allowing people to have guns.
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Lee3
Guest
I mean it more as a matter of speech and not literally.
Some people are referring to the Premier as Chairman Andrews because they perceive him as having a dictator type approach.
For example, Melbourne police arrested a pregnant woman the other day for trying to organize an anti Covid lockdown and they arrested two elderly ladies for sitting on a bench and being without masks, and took their phone away (when the women attempted to film it).
The Melbourne police have also been physically putting masks on people who are not wearing masks, so that sort of thing…
Some people are referring to the Premier as Chairman Andrews because they perceive him as having a dictator type approach.
For example, Melbourne police arrested a pregnant woman the other day for trying to organize an anti Covid lockdown and they arrested two elderly ladies for sitting on a bench and being without masks, and took their phone away (when the women attempted to film it).
The Melbourne police have also been physically putting masks on people who are not wearing masks, so that sort of thing…
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
There is also a ban on travel and that includes local travel even for errands. How strongly is that being enforced?
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Cathoholic
Guest
Lee3 . . .
Flattening the curve does not keep people from getting a virus (see here or below).
From here . . .
It is “tragic” when people die or are hurt from economic harm too.
What is even worse is when you have BOTH.
When you have people dying of viruses AND dying and being harmed from economic woes.
Now Sweden is exhibiting evidence of immunity, while those other countries still are going to have viral deaths AND their economic fallout.
Sweden’s success is they took a yes/and situation and made it into an either/or saving many lives (although it is impossible to count exactly how many).
The forced lockdowns were from the uncaring people.
I can’t think of a situation where the elderly were treated as disposable
more than New York’s leftist Governor Cuomo by the way.
The “success” is not the elderly who died Lee3.How could anyone consider Sweden a success with so many deaths?
I find it tragic that society does not value elderly people anymore and that they are just seen as “collateral damage” to keep our economy thriving.
Flattening the curve does not keep people from getting a virus (see here or below).
From here . . .
Flattening the curve slows down the spread, so as to not overwhelm the medical system.As Dr. Lisa Maragakis, Senior Director of Infection Prevention at Johns Hopkins Medical School explained, flattening the curve means that “ the same large number of patients arrived at the hospital at a slower rate. [emphasis mine]”
It is “tragic” when people die or are hurt from economic harm too.
What is even worse is when you have BOTH.
When you have people dying of viruses AND dying and being harmed from economic woes.
Now Sweden is exhibiting evidence of immunity, while those other countries still are going to have viral deaths AND their economic fallout.
Sweden’s success is they took a yes/and situation and made it into an either/or saving many lives (although it is impossible to count exactly how many).
The forced lockdowns were from the uncaring people.
I can’t think of a situation where the elderly were treated as disposable
more than New York’s leftist Governor Cuomo by the way.
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tomarin
Guest
Also according to what I’ve read herd immunity cannot be built up in such a short amount of time - not nearly enough people have been exposed to the virus - and it is also done in conjunction with vaccination.
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Sarcelle
Guest
There is also the possibility of reinfection.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Thbolt . . .
From Corriere Della Serra (Italian via Google Translate).
This is how . . .How can you conclude that Sweden is showing signs of immunity
Isn’t that great news Thbolt!?Some 2,500 randomly selected people in Sweden were swabed last week, and none tested positive. . . .
From Corriere Della Serra (Italian via Google Translate).
September 5, 2020
Few cases of coronavirus in Sweden “Our strategy worked”
Today the Scandinavian country has one of the lowest rates of infections even though it has never adopted a rigid lockdown. But the dead were more than 5 thousand
by Foreign Editorial Staff
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
But what if it turns out in the end that Sweden’s strategy to deal with the coronavirus was not so far-fetched and, indeed, is bearing fruit? Stockholm, unlike its Scandinavian neighbors, did not want to enact lockdown measures, relying more on the responsibility of individuals than on prohibitions. And to date it has paid a very high price with a rate of infections and mortality far higher than that of Norway and Denmark having had 84,985 positives and 5,835 deaths.
The turning point
Today, however, the situation looks different as many states face a resumption of the pandemic, in Stockholm the data are firmly descending . "Sweden has gone from being the country with the most infections in Europe to the safest one . . . Our policy may have been slow to bring results but in the end they arrived and are more stable ».
The data
According to the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control last week Sweden had 12 cases per million population while Denmark had 18 and Norway 14. Unlike mid-April when there were more than 100 deaths per day. , today there are no more than two or three deaths. On the contrary, on Thursday Copenhagen reached the record of the last 4 months with 179 infected in 24 hours.
The test
Some 2,500 randomly selected people in Sweden were swabed last week, and none tested positive. . . .
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Cathoholic
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I posted the article 5 minutes ago.
Your response was from 3 minutes ago.
Did you read the article Thbolt?
Your response was from 3 minutes ago.
Did you read the article Thbolt?
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Cathoholic
Guest
Well if you did not read the article before you posted, there is not much I’m going to be able to do for you.
I suggest you go back and read it before you reply.
I suggest you go back and read it before you reply.
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Cathoholic
Guest
I suggest you read before you reply Thbolt.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Thbolt . . .
Yes they are.Sweden isn’t showing immunity.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Thbolt . . .
It is just the opposite.
You don’t want the answers.
So, there is no reason to believe you are right.
No Thbolt.You can’t answer the questions I posed to you.
It is just the opposite.
You don’t want the answers.
So, there is no reason to believe you are right.
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Cathoholic
Guest
The answers are right there. But you don’t want to see them.
You were commenting before reading the article even.
You have admitted that you have done that before.
I can’t help you out on such things.
Answering your “questions” isn’t going to help.
You were commenting before reading the article even.
You have admitted that you have done that before.
I can’t help you out on such things.
Answering your “questions” isn’t going to help.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Thbolt . . .
There were about a thousand a day in June.
Why do you think that number has dropped?
And why do you think the death rate is now approaching zero in Sweden?
So what?There are still about 200 new cases of COVID a day in Sweden.
There were about a thousand a day in June.
Why do you think that number has dropped?
And why do you think the death rate is now approaching zero in Sweden?
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Cathoholic
Guest
Thbolt . . .
On June 19th there was 1209 cases. Now according to you there are 200.
What are the reasons for this if they are not isolating healthy people, masking-up society, and social distancing?
And what do you think happens immunologically Thbolt,
to people that have been infected,
survive and are now NOT infected?
What are they?There are many reasons why the number could have dropped.
On June 19th there was 1209 cases. Now according to you there are 200.
What are the reasons for this if they are not isolating healthy people, masking-up society, and social distancing?
And what do you think happens immunologically Thbolt,
to people that have been infected,
survive and are now NOT infected?
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Cathoholic
Guest
From my article in this post . . .
Unlike mid-April when there were more than 100 deaths per day, today there are no more than two or three deaths. On the contrary, on Thursday Copenhagen reached the record of the last 4 months with 179 infected in 24 hours.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Thbolt on Sweden . . .
At least look at the pictures (if you are not going to read the articles). There is no masking or social distancing (at least mandated by the Government).
If there are many reasons why the number could have dropped, what are they? (So far as regards to Sweden you haven’t given me one.)
On June 19th there was 1209 cases. Now according to you there are 200.
What are the non-immunity reasons for this dramatic decrease if they (Sweden) are not isolating healthy people, masking-up society, and social distancing?
And what do you think happens immunologically Thbolt,
to people that have been infected,
survive and are now NOT infected?
Thbolt . . .
Except Sweden is not doing this. (You seem to be missing the whole point of this thread. Sweden is doing well despite not doing these things).Social distancing and masking up would be two reasons.
At least look at the pictures (if you are not going to read the articles). There is no masking or social distancing (at least mandated by the Government).
And this photo here:(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
From the embedded information on this picture. . . .(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
I’ll ask you again.This picture taken in Stockholm, Sweden, on August 31, 2020, shows people walking in a street in Stockholm . . . “While most of the world has come to terms with covering their noses and mouths in crowded places as a measure to prevent the spread of Covid-19, Sweden continues to refuse to recommend the use of masks. (Photo by Tom LITTLE / AFP) (Photo by TOM LITTLE/AFP via Getty Images)”)
If there are many reasons why the number could have dropped, what are they? (So far as regards to Sweden you haven’t given me one.)
On June 19th there was 1209 cases. Now according to you there are 200.
What are the non-immunity reasons for this dramatic decrease if they (Sweden) are not isolating healthy people, masking-up society, and social distancing?
And what do you think happens immunologically Thbolt,
to people that have been infected,
survive and are now NOT infected?
Thbolt . . .
So far you haven’t given me one (that pertains to Sweden).There are many reasons why the number could have dropped.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Thbolt . . .
Maybe they have been getting infections and immunity DESPITE all their masking (even N95 masks only filter 95% of 3 micron particles). They just spread it out (that is what “flattening the curve” is all about Thbolt).
So are you now recommending that these “other countries” LIKEWISE drop social distancing mandates, mask rules, and isolating HEALTHY people?
I am against mandates like California has, that have people outside alone needing to wear masks.
How many lives do you think wearing masks when you are outside alone has saved Thbolt?
Maybe, maybe not.Again, it is happening in other countries that didn’t take Sweden’s approach, so that suggests that it is not a sign that Sweden’s approach is the cause of the reduction.
Maybe they have been getting infections and immunity DESPITE all their masking (even N95 masks only filter 95% of 3 micron particles). They just spread it out (that is what “flattening the curve” is all about Thbolt).
So are you now recommending that these “other countries” LIKEWISE drop social distancing mandates, mask rules, and isolating HEALTHY people?
I am against mandates like California has, that have people outside alone needing to wear masks.
How many lives do you think wearing masks when you are outside alone has saved Thbolt?
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Sarcelle
Guest
If you are in favor of only isolating those at risk and things like hypertension, diabetes and obesity are risk factors, you realize that a huge portion of the US will still be isolated right?So are you now recommending that these “other countries” LIKEWISE drop social distancing mandates, mask rules, and isolating HEALTHY people?
It’s not just the elderly who are at risk you know.
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