Lockdowns never again: Sweden was right, and we were wrong

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cathoholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thbolt . . .
So, I ask for a comparison between Sweden and Norway and this is your response. Why don’t you just answer the question I posed, Cathoholic?
Click to expand...
Because it will be stronger for you to work it out using common sense (the answer is already there) and come to your own conclusions that’s why.

Right now you have painted yourself into the wrong answer and I am attempting to help you help yourself.
 
Last edited:
Thbolt ignoring the fact that immunity in society is to some extent “preventative measures”. .
So, then the next outbreak will affect them just as bad as any other country and possibly worse if they don’t take preventative measures.
Click to expand...
 
Thbolt . . .
Sweden has a lot of people dead from COVID.
Click to expand...
Yes. It is almost identical per 100,000 with the USA, despite the USA having many places where we have Government mandating of
Quarantining healthy people,
Government-mandated masking,
and Government mandated artificial “social distancing”.

None of which were ever meant to “stop” a virus on a large societal scale.

Sweden has about a third of the deaths per 100,000 as New York State (at least when I checked the numbers above).

That is a lot of death.

Sweden had a lot of death last year too without Corona virus (so did every place else).

Death is a bad thing.

But Government masking etc. is not going to change that in the long run. It was never meant to. It was meant to slow down the spread, to flatten the curve, so as to not overwhelm our medical healthcare system.

Thbolt. You unfortunately have re-defined these efforts in your mind to mean something they never meant. And now you cannot let go of your own idea.
 
Last edited:
Thbolt . . .
What percentage of Swedes do you think have immunity?
Click to expand...
Approximately 100% of the people who have had the infection and recovered.

But if you thought this through Thbolt, you could answer your own questions for yourself.
 

The Amish understand it​

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Thbolt . . .
Which is what percentage of the Swedish population?
Click to expand...
Look at your own post-link to worldometers or whatever, then do the math yourself.
 
Last edited:
Thbolt . . .
Then how come countries that did this correctly like Norway and Finland have 1/10th the death rate of Sweden?
Click to expand...
Do you think this is now over?

Is this a sprint?

Or do you think this will be a long-term problem? A proverbial marathon?

Answer these things for yourself.

Use common sense.

Think about deaths that go beyond coronavirus sociology studies and ask yourself if they count too (like suicide from isolated people, or grandpa not being allowed to have a priest as he is dying in the nursing home, or starvation elsewhere than Sweden from these non-sense Government policies).

Ask yourself what the average age of death was in the pre-Corona virus years.

And what it is now.

Ask yourself why you keep ignoring life-years lost in your arguments. (If an 80 year-old Swedish man dies of a heart attack who happens to have Corona virus, and a 30 year old man commits suicide who is alone and his own Government forced him out of work, are equivalent life-years lost? I am not minimizing ANY of these deaths, but I think YOU are ignoring away some of the risks associating with your Government imposition stands. And you keep ignoring them.)

Of course this is part of the reason WHY you are wrong Thbolt,
and The World Health Organization us right
on this issue Thbolt.
 
Last edited:
Thbolt . . .
Why don’t you just answer the question, Cathoholic?
Click to expand...
I have already explained that to you (but it does not compute).

You have a built-in presupposition in your question. (Several actually.)

A false one.

A presupposition that assumes this is a sprint, ignores the risk-benefit ratio, and ignores life-years lost.

You will have to think through it Thbolt and answer your question for yourself.


 
Last edited:
I doubt if Sweden’s model could be considered a success. With 8493 patients per million and a death rate of 6.8%, it’s a total failure compared to Japan’s 571 patients per million and 1.92% death rate.

Japan never had a lockdown either, even during the state of emergency, because the Japanese constitution doesn’t permit the government to impose such kind of restrictions, and the government could only issue non-binding REQUESTS for people to stay home and stores to either shut down or shorten their business hours. BUT the Japanese people cooperated with extreme SELF-DISCIPLINE, or else cities like Tokyo and Osaka would have faced worse apocalypse than what happened in New York, including but not limited to: hospitals packed with bodies; parks turned into temporary cemeteries; freezer trucks called in to serve as temporary morgues; crematorium catching fire from overuse, etc.

So no, Sweden didn’t manage it successfully.
 
Thbolt . . .
Please answer that question.
Click to expand...
No.

It carrys a wrong built-in presupposition that the pandemic numbers are now final.

You think it through.
 
Last edited:
new-kirishitan said:
I doubt if Sweden’s model could be considered a success. With 8493 patients per million and a death rate of 6.8%, it’s a total failure compared to Japan’s 571 patients per million and 1.92% death rate.

Japan never had a lockdown either,
Click to expand...
Please don’t cherry pick your data.

Also, Japan took severe measures to reduce the spread of the virus, they closed their borders before the virus could get a foothold and what they could to increase social distancing. The Fed govt doesn’t have the ability to mandate a lock down so they strongly recommended prudent steps to increase social distancing (the Three C’s).

I applaud Japan’s success, but that doesn’t mean Sweden has failed given their very different circumstances and higher immigrant population that is higher risk. I do think the rest of the world should have followed their lead to reduce spread by emphasizing people avoid the “Three Cs”.
  • Enclosed spaces with poor ventilation
  • Crowded places with many people
  • Close contact settings such as face-to-face conversations.
Japan has more in common with New Zealand, another island nation that chose to effectively close their borders before the virus got a foothold.
 
Last edited:
While the Japanese are to be admired for their response to Covid-19, remember there are not very many countries around the world with citizens who are anywhere near as diligent and self-disciplined as Japan. That culture makes a huge difference in a very good way for Japan but it has to be mentioned whenever comparing Japan to other countries.

The Swedish culture, by comparison, is much closer to the West. Since Sweden is not only in the European Union but also part of the Schengen Area, it’s fair to look at the other EU countries in addition to its Scandinavian neighbors. When taken in the overall context of EU countries, Sweden doesn’t look as bad when compared to Belgium, the UK, Italy, etc., all of whom locked down.
 
Theo520 said:
they closed their borders before the virus could get a foothold
Click to expand...
This is untrue. Japan is one of the LAST countries to close its borders, only doing it in March, long after the USA closed its border to ALL Chinese nationals back in February. When the pandemic has already spread throughout China and new cases in Japan were already increasing sharply, Abe’s government was very hesitant to close its borders, fearing that will anger Japan’s powerful neighbor. His WEAK stance costed over a thousand innocent Japanese people’s lives. If Japan closed its border immediately like Taiwan did, then those victims wouldn’t have died. Taiwan has done a better job than Japan did.
 
I saw this Government heavy-handedness below in Spain and with THIS kind of corona enFORCEment thought . . . .

How is their deaths compared to Sweden at this time?

Watch: Lifeguard Arrested, Led Away in Handcuffs by Hazmat Cops for ‘Surfing with Coronavirus’​

11,423

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Screengrab / @JavierSanz

Oliver JJ Lane

9 Sep 2020

Remarkable footage has revealed the moment police officers — dressed head-to-toe in hazmat suits — frogmarched a young woman up a beach in handcuffs after she went surfing after being diagnosed with coronavirus.

A professional lifeguard was reported to police by her own colleagues in San Sebastian, in the Bay of Biscay in Spain’s Basque country on Monday after she was spotted surfing while placed on medical leave by her employer following a positive coronavirus test. . . .
Click to expand...

So I took a look at the worldometers latest daily death counts. (I took the screen captures early this morning)

Here is for Spain from September 8th . . . .

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Spain on close-up . . .

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

.

.

Here is for Sweden from September 8th . . . .

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Sweden on close-up . . .

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Looked at Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.

From worldometers . . . . .

More new cases of corona virus where masking etc. is occurring! (Compared to without Government-mandated masking, quarantining HEALTHY people, etc.)

(I am not saying this is a cause and effect like the Government-mandated mask advocate people attempt to do when less cases with mandated masking.

Just an observation . . . so far).

Deaths approaching zero in all three countries.

.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Norway - Daily New Cases Rising - but deaths not

.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Norway - Daily New Deaths falling

.
.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Sweden - Daily New Cases FALLING - deaths approaching ZERO now

.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Sweden - Daily New Deaths approaching ZERO

.
.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Denmark - Daily New Cases Rising - but deaths not

.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Denmark - Daily New Deaths approaching ZERO

.
 
Last edited:
They did shut down their schools very early on, at a time when I thought that was a drastic and unprecedented measure. I do remember that.
 
They live very clean so that germs can not stand on them. They maybe disinfect everything and pray five times more than normal, and very careful.

I cannot find any small piece of trash on the streets there in the pictures or videos.
 
Last edited:
Swedens approach will only ever be vindicated by history if Denmark, Norway and Finland, the comparable countries, end up with a comparable death toll when the pandemic is over.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top