Lockdowns never again: Sweden was right, and we were wrong

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LeafByNiggle said:
Now, the death rate is much lower, even where the infection rate is high, because of this added knowledge
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Possibly because all the “canaries in the mine” (elderly in nursing homes) with comorbidities died.
LeafByNiggle said:
New York and New Jersey were unlucky enough to have to blaze the trail for everyone else. That is the real reason.
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I think everybody knew before that about how bad an idea it was to put Covid cases in nursing homes. But Cuomo did it anyway and the trail everybody knew was there got blazed.
 
Being Catholic does not make you more likely to die when you get COVID.

Being obese and/or diabetic means that your are at greater risk of death when you get COVID.

Big difference.
 
Ridgerunner said:
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LeafByNiggle:
Now, the death rate is much lower, even where the infection rate is high, because of this added knowledge
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Possibly because all the “canaries in the mine” (elderly in nursing homes) with comorbidities died.
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We don’t need more speculation.
LeafByNiggle said:
New York and New Jersey were unlucky enough to have to blaze the trail for everyone else. That is the real reason.
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I think everybody knew before that about how bad an idea it was to put Covid cases in nursing homes.
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Cuomo didn’t think it was a good idea either, but he thought (wrongly, it turned out) that without doing so, the hospitals would run out of rooms for new patients. It was a matter of weighing options where all of them are bad.
 
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LeafByNiggle . . .
The real reason is that New York got more travel from Europe very early before it was banned and was infected early . . .
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If you really believe that Leaf, you should be calling for Cuomo to reinstitute his order, forcing nursing homes to take INFECTED PATIENTS INTO the nursing homes AGAIN.

(The fact is nobody believes this Leaf. Even Cuomo.)

You should also explain why if the infected patients came dispropotionately from Europe to New York’s elderly, why Europe did so much better than New York’s elderly?

Those things should be easy enough.
 
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Zzyzx_Road. Someone told you “over 500 Swedes died of Covid per 100,000” Swedes.

This is just false.

Sweden’s death rate is very close to the USA’s.
The real figures are all above on this thread.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
I was not proven wrong about this order not being primarily responsible for the very higher death rate. The real reason is that New York got more travel from Europe very early before it was banned and was infected early, before doctors knew the best treatment protocols. It turned out that ventilators were not the best treatment for most serious cases, and that turn the patient on his stomach and giving him oxygen was often more effective. They did not know this back then. Now, the death rate is much lower, even where the infection rate is high, because of this added knowledge. New York and New Jersey were unlucky enough to have to blaze the trail for everyone else. That is the real reason.
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This is obtuse to the fact that everyone knew by March 15 that the elderly were a huge problem. That was all over the press from what happened in Washington state and Italy. Did you somehow not know this much on March 15?

This is even more obtuse to the fact that there were states with high elderly populations and none of them had New York or New Jersey level death tolls. The virus hit Florida at the same time and their larger elderly population could have been hit as hard as New York and New Jersey had DeSantis done as Cuomo and Murphy did. Talk about people who came to New York. That’s fine, just remember a lot of people also fled New York for Florida, among other destinations.

The media predicted for weeks that Florida was going to get hit New York style. After all, DeSantis had the same knowledge that Cuomo and Murphy had so why didn’t elderly Floridians die like elderly New Yorkers and elderly New Jerseyans?
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
This is obtuse to the fact that everyone knew by March 15 that the elderly were a huge problem. That was all over the press from what happened in Washington state and Italy.
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I don’t deny it.
Zzyzx_Road said:
there were states with high elderly populations and none of them had New York or New Jersey level death tolls.
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for other reasons, some of which I gave.
Zzyzx_Road said:
The virus hit Florida at the same time and their larger elderly population could have been hit as hard as New York and New Jersey
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Actually Florida was about a week behind and did not have as much travel from Europe as New York did.
Zzyzx_Road said:
so why didn’t elderly Floridians die like elderly New Yorkers and elderly New Jerseyans?
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The weather? It was still cold in March in New York.
 
Thbolt said:
much higher than most.
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Did I see a sliver of acknowledgment that some Schengen area countries have higher per million death tolls than Sweden?

Perhaps you’d be interested in knowing the US has higher deaths per million than Sweden.


For everyone else: at this point, ten countries now have higher deaths per million than Sweden. Four of them are in Europe and the US has just surpassed Sweden as well. I haven’t followed the Latin American countries closely, but at least the European countries and the US did lockdowns.
 
Some more interesting finds today:
This one is Los Angeles County vs. Sweden as both have similar populations. Sweden as a country is less dense than LA County to be sure, but Stockholm is more dense than the city of LA.
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and this one related to population density:
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Those are the border counties that got hit hard due to Mexicans fleeing their own country’s health care system.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
I can’t believe people are still touting Sweden as a great success when the data shows the opposite:
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ignorance is bliss. Sweden is also a lot healthier than the USA, by a long shot. It’s not even close to compare how the USA would fair to a country that has access has healthcare for all.
 
toabb . . .
It’s not even close to compare how the USA would fair to a country that has access has healthcare for all.
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Italy and Spain (both of which are socialized medicine countries) floundered during the worst of the initial corona “fire”.
 
But now as the rest of Europe battles a second wave of COVID-19, Sweden has found it is not immune after all.

“Stockholm has seen a clear increase recently, across all age groups,” Sweden‘s state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who has headed the country’s response, told reporters on Tuesday.

“We are discussing with Stockholm whether we need some additional possibility to take measures to reduce transmission.”

Stockholm health chief Björn Eriksson said the “downwards trend is broken”, with more than 1200 new cases in the city since Friday.

“The pandemic is still ongoing, and I am pretty exasperated by people who act as if this is over,” he said. “Everyone needs to help in reducing transmission.”

Dr Tegnell said experts were now finalising what restrictions may need to happen.

“We have a discussion with Stockholm about whether we need to introduce measures to reduce the spread of infection,” he said.

“Exactly what that will be, we will come back to in the next few days.”

 
Motherwit quoting NewsComAu . . . .
Sweden has found it is not immune after all.
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To everybody else.

Back in April Sweden was getting over a hundred new deaths a day many days.

I just check on worldometers.

They are getting between ZERO and five deaths a day the last several days.

You can see the facts for yourself right here . . .


Of course there is “immunity”.

An utterly ridiculous statement for NewsComAu to make.

A little common sense would go a long way for this “news” agency.
 
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The information is taken directly from the mouth of Sweden’s state epidemiologist and Stockhom’s health chief … “everybody else”.
 
And the numbers are there for everyone to see and draw their own conclusions …everybody else.

They have immunity. At least SOME immunity. You do not get cases and come out of it with no immunity.

The leftist media will be disappointed the country is doing this well.
 
To the readers here.

The numbers are there for everyone to see.

The death rate is approaching ZERO.

More cases all over in Scandanavian countries.

Lockdowns against healthy people are not meant to fight viral infections.
They were designed to flatten the curve.

The same as with the other measures (societal masking - which we know has no evidence what so ever as a means of long-term viral protection and in some cases augments the spread of disease).

Social distancing is hit and miss too.
 
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Cathoholic said:
The same as with the other measures (societal masking - which we know has no evidence what so ever as a means of long-term viral protection and in some cases augments the spread of disease).

Social distancing is hit and miss too.
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I recently read an article in which it is said that the virus is rapidly mutating to “avoid” whatever protection masks, hand washing, and social distancing might provide. In some places, it is now the predominant virus. Apparently it does that by increasing the viral load on whatever might carry it.

If this virus will do that, and this quickly, then I expect it will become resistant to whatever vaccine we come up with, and very soon. Likely a degree of “herd immunity” (which will never be fully successful) is all there really is against a virus that is not only as endemic as the common cold, but as easily morphed as well.

Indeed, it is said that about 20% of what we think of as the “common cold” is a form of coronavirus and has been for a long time.
Cathoholic said:
The death rate is approaching ZERO.
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Oh but you see, the people who support the murder of children want to be able to accuse Trump of murdering the elderly and infirm. So a zero death rate will mean nothing to the Democrat apologists.
 
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Cathoholic said:
To the readers here.

The numbers are there for everyone to see.

The death rate is approaching ZERO.

More cases all over in Scandanavian countries.

Lockdowns against healthy people are not meant to fight viral infections.
They were designed to flatten the curve.

The same as with the other measures (societal masking - which we know has no evidence what so ever as a means of long-term viral protection and in some cases augments the spread of disease).

Social distancing is hit and miss too.
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Well we’ll see what Sweden decides in the next few days about a lockdown.

“We are going slowly but surely in the wrong direction” Anders Tegnull Chief Epidemiologist - The Local Sweden.
 
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