Lockdowns never again: Sweden was right, and we were wrong

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F_Marturana said:
The Lancet did a study that herd immunity would not be possible without increasing substantially the amount of dead, and overwhelming the hospital systems.
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That is another huge issue with this fairytale ‘herd immunity’ ending.
This is a truly awful disease for those who have it and end up in hospital or in ICU. Survival brings an emerging host of long term debilitating health issues, and for those who succumb, that journey can be slow and difficult. May God rest those souls.
 
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umamibella said:
the length of immunity offered by any potential vaccine is yet to be determined. This virus is going to require vaccinations like with flu shots.
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You just contradicted yourself right there. First you said that we don’t know what the length of the immunity offered by a vaccine might be. And in the very next sentence you assert that the immunity will be less than a year. How could you say it will be less than a year when you just said we don’t know what it is?
umamibella said:
A vaccine is going to have to be given early enough in a Covid season…
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There is no indication yet that there is such a thing as a “covid season”, since infections have cropped up in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres. Unlike the flu, which markedly declines in summer months, covid has not behaved that way.
 
umamibella said:
Yes, there are no conclusive studies showing immunity lasts for an extended length of time, infact, early studies are showing it does not stick for more then a few months.

Any conjecture on herd immunity is foolhardy, scientists wont speculate, thus the need for a vaccine.
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Of note, there is no evidence of people being reinfected,
which by itself is strong evidence immunity does last.
 
The United States would have a much lower “COVID” death rate if we could eliminate states ruled by Democratic Governors from the count, and if we could remove motorcycle accidents, lightning strikes, and other coincidental “died WITH COVID” from the count.
 
Thbolt said:
Now go do a graph of Norway and Finland vs. Sweden.
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I never said they had lower deaths than those countries. But this chart compares them with Europe and Norway, they seem to be doing relatively well considering you think their policy was little more than murder vs all these countries.


The spikes for Finland and Norway will be in the future, when they inevitably relax restrictions.
 
1cthlctrth said:
much lower “COVID” death rate if we could eliminate states ruled
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But people in the US generally are free to go from state to state carrying the virus with them. The leadership comes from the overseer of all states or entire countries with actual borders.
 
Thbolt said:
It would make the most sense to compare Sweden with Norway and Finland and see which did and is doing the best. It’s strange that there is call for the US to emulate Sweden, which has 10 times the death rate from COVID as the other countries.
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It seems very callous. I hate to say it, but in a very liberal post-Christian country such as Sweden, is there a bit of a “well some deaths are bound to happen so let’s just live our lives, can’t be bothered to sacrifice” mentality going on? Big proponents of abortion, euthanasia, etc. in Northern Europe…
 
But I never asked if “the world was close to herd immunity.”

I asked if you knew the WHO referred to Sweden as a model country for Corona virus management?
(Ryan didn’t even mention Sweden in his talk by the way.)
 
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Before you asked for my “previous posts”.

Now after I provide them (that you claimed you could not find), you are criticizing me for allegedly only one “embedded link” and “Breitbart”.

With your moving the goalposts from post to post, I can’t win no matter what I say.

So I am going to let you come to whatever conclusions you want to think.
 
I’m happy to forget it. It was a misunderstanding. I was asking for sources for your information as in official medical/government sources. You thought I was asking for the sources you created by previous posts.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
You just contradicted yourself right there. First you said that we don’t know what the length of the immunity offered by a vaccine might be. And in the very next sentence you assert that the immunity will be less than a year.
How could you say it will be less than a year when you just said we don’t know what it is
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Read what I said clearly, instead of trying to score internet debate points.

The length of immunity offered by a vaccine is yet to be determined. That means no one has any idea at this point how long vaccine protection will last. You cannot know different yourself.

Now if you were following you would clearly understand that plain statement.

Now if you were following , you would NOT , I repeat, NOT , conflate artificially created immunity such as that with any as yet mythical vaccine, to immunity caught in the wild.

I have no idea what you mean by this

“How could you say it will be less than a year when you just said we don’t know what it is?”

I do suggest you learn the difference between something like a small pox eradication program and an annual vaccine for influenza.
LeafByNiggle said:
There is no indication yet that there is such a thing as a “covid season”, since infections have cropped up in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres. Unlike the flu, which markedly declines in summer months, covid has not behaved that way.
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How about you keep up with current research rather then making statements like that.
Again, easy to find because the internet is all about Covid research.

You’re welcome.
 
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umamibella said:
Actually there is. Go search South Korea’s experience for starters.
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I’m immediately suspicious.
You could easily prevent the argument by citing the research, specifying how many, and how they prove reinfection.
But we are not.
Is this one of those cases where someone heard something may have happened at one time and therefore believes it?
 
umamibella . . .
The length of immunity offered by a vaccine is yet to be determined. That means no one has any idea at this point how long vaccine protection will last. You cannot know different yourself.
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True. Nobody knows for sure.

But if you take into consideration vaccines and physiologically how they work, a safe effective vaccine for a primarily respiratory-transmitted disease (like Corona virus is) is almost going to be impossible.

At least with current technology.

That’s WHY we can’t get a good “cold” vaccine.
That’s WHY you need frequent re-vaccinations (and even then, they often do not work) with influenza.

Just think about the already well-known physiologic mechanism.

The virus is going to gain entrance into your respiratory epithelium via attachment to ACE II receptors.

The way it got there in the first place was via the airway.

The reason it got to the airway in the first place was you inhaled it (or touched your infected hand or whatever to a facial mucosal surface (nose, eye, mouth) and the virus “slinkyed” down your airway.

The vaccines we have now (IgG mediated) are going to stimulate antibody in the bloodstream.

Since the virus particles bypass the bloodstream and directly infect your respiratory epithelium via your airway (NOT via your bloodstream), they can enter your respiratory epithelium unimpeded. Even with IgG antibody (blood antibody) already present!

There (theoretically) is a WAY we could attack the virus in the airway with antibody.

But that would call for IgA antibody (and we know almost nothing as to how to manipulate this class of antibodies compared to the usual IgG antibody).

This reason, physiologically speaking, is almost CERTAINLY WHY, Dr. Fauci has said
any Corona virus vaccine we have will likely have little effectiveness.
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Dr. Anthony Fauci says chance of coronavirus vaccine being highly effective is ‘not great’ World News
Dr. Anthony Fauci says chance of coronavirus vaccine being highly effective is ‘not great’ Published Fri, Aug 7 20201:57 PM EDTUpdated Fri, Aug 7 20205:04 PM EDT Berkeley Lovelace Jr.@BerkeleyJr Noah Higgins-Dunn@higginsdunn Key Points White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci that the chances of scientists creating a highly effective vaccine — one that provides 98% or more guaranteed protection — for the virus are slim. Scientists are hoping for a coronavirus vaccine that is at le…
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That being said, studies SHOULD go forth here as IgG antibody, SHOULD help minimize complications as the virus will go from the respiratory epithelium to the heart (or liver, or brain, or wherever) via the bloodstream.

So SOME infectious complications MAY be MINIMIZED.

I am all for a good, safe, ethical, reliable vaccine against Corona virus.

Many have only a very rudimentary understanding of just how daunting this task will be though.
 
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vz71 said:
I’m immediately suspicious.
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What of? Surely not scientists and medical researchers. That is who and where all the Covid data is being correlated, Not to mention the vaccine, viral drug, respirator, death and long term disabilities, plus that rare disease children are being afflicted with. All the preventatives and their effectiveness , and where your media is germinating all its reports.

Research is easy to find. Again jump on google and read about it. I have, the media in my country is right onto the current research.

There is no obscurity or rocket science involved.
 
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Cathoholic said:
But if you take into consideration vaccines and physiologically how they work, a safe effective vaccine for a primarily respiratory-transmitted disease (like Corona virus is) is almost going to be impossible.
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Droplet transmission and looks like its airborne too. Loves dry conditions , which kind of blows the early ‘it is a winter virus’ idea. Australia has wet winters.
Please , if you are going to cut and paste can you link the original article specifically for how dated it is.
You also did not mention its entry point through the eyes. Airborne, hit the eyes, hello covid.
It is not just a disease that hits the lungs, it affects other organs as well. Very importantly, it is affecting different age groups differently.

The chief health officer of Sweden stated that even if children become infected and develop some immunity, the figure is much lower then predicted earlier this year, and it doesnt flow on to adult immunity.
That is one interview of his recently. He also stated the death rate for Sweden this year so far was higher then it has been for quite some years.
 
umamibella said:
I do suggest you learn the difference between something like a small pox eradication program and an annual vaccine for influenza.
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And I suggest you realize that no one knows at this point whether covid-19 will be more like the small pox or influence in this regard.
 
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