Luman Fidei encyclical letter

[mytruepower2]

This is the 4th paragraph of the first encylical by Pope Francis released a week ago.
(bolding of selected sentences by me)

“A light to be recovered”

Please give your thoughts – especially anyone experienced in Quantum Physics (I am a surgeon and deal with macroscopic things).

Without God, our atoms would fly apart….

There are conflicting views on whether God’s intervention is needed to keep our atoms in motion, but if God ever ceased to exist, so would our atoms.

In response to the paragraph itself, my very first thought is “yeah. Good luck with that.”

Not meaning to offend the Pope, really, but this is not the time for flowery metaphors. I get that he finds the faith beautiful. So do I, because it’s true and it makes sense, but the indisputable fact is that people have lost this beautiful faith en masse for the last 40-50 years, and I’m of the camp that expects this to continue unless something drastic is done.

The problem, as I see it, is that anyone can preach in flowery prose; even a protestant minister with a much louder voice and a loudspeaker to make it even louder. Flowery preaching doesn’t work, and hasn’t worked for the last five decades, if what you want is to bring people into the Catholic Church.

We need to start stressing the things that the Catholic Church has, which nobody else has, and offering those things again.

One of those things is the truth, and it is very important, in this age of sound bites, to preach that truth clearly. Because of this, let me sum up what I believe the entire paragraph is intended to say, and I hope someone will correct me if this turns out to be wrong.

“Faith is very important and very beautiful. In fact, it’s so important and beautiful, that it can’t possibly come from us, and therefore, must come from God.”

All of the analogies about life and time are very pretty (though he seems, by them, to endorse a tenseless theory of time, not unlike my own, oddly,) yet, in the end, modern man is more likely to view them with distrust; as though they were some wordy attempt to brainwash or trick him. It’s why I do what I do; trying to make all of these issues clean cut, and as simple to understand as possible. If you don’t understand something, at least on some level, you won’t be able to love it.

 

[1AugustSon7]

Not meaning to offend the Pope, really, but this is not the time for flowery metaphors. I get that he finds the faith beautiful. So do I, because it’s true and it makes sense, but the indisputable fact is that people have lost this beautiful faith en masse for the last 40-50 years

Let me see if I understand your logic here:

1. You are believer - you have faith - but
2. You believe notwithstanding that “the indisputable fact is that people have lost this beautiful faith en masse for the last 40-50 years” even though
3. Said Faith holds that such a thing is in fact impossible and that the Church and her Faith will endure until the end of time.

Moreover, you say that

I’m of the camp that expects this to continue unless something drastic is done

But I think that, on the contrary, the believer - by God’s grace and with His help - is properly “of the camp” described by Saint John:

Rev 20:8 They came up across the whole breadth of the earth, and beleaguered the encampment of the saints, and the beloved city.

And I will go out on a limb and just identify this camp as the Church. And this is quite comforting because that camp will not fail because it is under God’s divine protection, as the passage goes on to say using its rather flowery language, metaphors and other literary devices that the Scriptures are fond of indulging in from time to time - like Hebrew poetry, which by Faith we also know is not an oxymoron.

Consequently there is no fear (because there is no possibility) that the faith of the Church will in any way or at any time be overcome or otherwise be lost or fail “en masse”:

Matt 16:18
And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it

 

[Norwich12]

I second the clarifications that 1AugustSon7 made about mytruepower2’s observations of the Church of Peter in the time frame of Post-Vatican II (my adult life as an Anglican after Methodism.

How could the Church Militant “fail”?

1. Mary our Mother (the first Christian) is
   Queen of the Universe.
2. Matt 16:18
   “And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

Although I am an American Episcopalian, I recognize the
Centrality of Rome in all of Christendom.

The hundreds of denominations are Ripples of the Rock.

I sense that Pope Francis humbly feels his role of Vicar yet Servant
of Christ. And Julian of Norwich experienced the Crucified Jesus smiling at His
death inviting all humankind to come home.

Amen

 

[mytruepower2]

1. You are believer - you have faith - but
2. You believe notwithstanding that “the indisputable fact is that people have lost this beautiful faith en masse for the last 40-50 years” even though
3. Said Faith holds that such a thing is in fact impossible and that the Church and her Faith will endure until the end of time.

The Catholic faith says no such thing. In fact, it says the following…

“And he that received the seed upon stony ground, is he that heareth the word, and immediately receiveth it with joy. Yet hath he not root in himself, but is only for a time: and when there ariseth tribulation and persecution because of the word, he is presently scandalized.”
Matthew 13: 20-21

So clearly, people can lose the faith. Many people, in fact; even most, for narrow is the way that leads to salvation, and those who find it are few.

But I think that, on the contrary, the believer - by God’s grace and with His help - is properly “of the camp” described by Saint John:

Rev 20:8 They came up across the whole breadth of the earth, and beleaguered the encampment of the saints, and the beloved city.

And I will go out on a limb and just identify this camp as the Church. And this is quite comforting because that camp will not fail because it is under God’s divine protection, as the passage goes on to say using its rather flowery language, metaphors and other literary devices that the Scriptures are fond of indulging in from time to time - like Hebrew poetry, which by Faith we also know is not an oxymoron.

Consequently there is no fear (because there is no possibility) that the faith of the Church will in any way or at any time be overcome or otherwise be lost or fail “en masse”:

Firstly, the interpretation that you offer of the passage in revelation is not, as far as I can tell, explicit in the text, nor is it clear from the Church’s teaching on the subject. I’d like some evidence of this before I consider it legitimate. It speaks of a “beloved city,” but this can’t be the church, since according to our Lord himself, we have no Earthly city.

Secondly, Hebrew is a language that is distinguished by a series of basic root words, each of which can mean a number of things, and is often used to mean all of them. The Old Testament (and large parts of the New) weren’t written in modern, hellenistically-inspired languages, nor were they written for people who were weak or uneducated in their faith. In fact, for the Jews of that time period, religion was inseparable from their culture, and Old Covenant Jews, and subsequently New Covenant Christians, had strongly-held beliefs which identified them as authentic believers; beliefs which they were willing to go to their deaths for, and did, on a regular basis.

To such people, it would be perfectly appropriate to give them some new song or something, to help them more fully appreciate the mysteries of God (though obviously, you have to start by helping them memorize the creeds, and understand what they mean.)

However, as our current pontiff has quite poignantly demonstrated, we don’t live in that kind of world anymore. The vast majority of people are either overt atheists, or else more or less act like they don’t believe God really exists, in terms of how little they actually revere him or his church, how rarely they concern themselves with authentic morality, and how infrequently they concern themselves with God’s place in their lives. These people do not need another piece of poetry. They need a fire.

Matt 16:18
And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter, and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it

I think you’ve misunderstood me. I never said the Church had been prevailed against. Its teachings are still the same. They haven’t been changed, and cannot be changed, and that’s what it means, ultimately, for the Church to prevail.

However, I’m not a reductionist, and even if you’re not speaking heresy, or trying to change Church teaching, you can still say and do things that are harmful to the faithful. This is a time for hammering the truths of the faith and reviving authentic respect and reverence for the Church’s teaching authority, not waxing poetical like an out-of-work beatnik.

 

[1AugustSon7]

The Catholic faith says no such thing.

Really?

CCC 77 “In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority.” Indeed, “the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time.”

In fact, it says the following…

“And he that received the seed upon stony ground, is he that heareth the word, and immediately receiveth it with joy. Yet hath he not root in himself, but is only for a time: and when there ariseth tribulation and persecution because of the word, he is presently scandalized.”
Matthew 13: 20-21

In fact she teaches the following:

CCC 79 The Father’s self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: “God, who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. and the Holy Spirit, through whom the living voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church - and through her in the world - leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness.”

So clearly, people can lose the faith.

Sure they can. But that is exactly why God gave us the Church so that, through continuing in love, charity, service, communion and patience in and with her we can hold fast to that faith with confidence. The Church, however, will not lose the faith; and the Bishop of Rome as Successor to the promises and commission entrusted to Saint Peter by our Lord will always preach that faith. By adhering to the bishops we adhere to that faith - and there has never been a shortage of people in the Church who have done this throughout the last “40-50 years”.

Many people, in fact; even most, for narrow is the way that leads to salvation, and those who find it are few.

Sure; and that narow way and those who find that way can be sure they have found it in the Church, as she always makes that way available to them in her preaching, discipline, instruction and sacraments.

Firstly, the interpretation that you offer of the passage in revelation is not, as far as I can tell, explicit in the text,

You honestly think that is not a reference to the Church? Who or what else is supposed to be indicated by “the encampment of the saints”?

nor is it clear from the Church’s teaching on the subject.

The Catechism makes it quite clear that the Church will endure until the end of times preaching the Gospel and revelation makes it quite clear that dvine providence will protect and guard the saints even in the final catastrophe at the end of times.

I’d like some evidence of this before I consider it legitimate. It speaks of a “beloved city,” but this can’t be the church,

Wow. You might want to read “the City of God” by that most Catholic of saints, Saint Augustine. The “encampment of saints” is in part why we call specifically the Church on earth the Church Militant because obviously those in heaven are no longer being persecuted and tempted by the devil.

since according to our Lord himself, we have no Earthly city.

We are citizens of heaven and the heavenly Jerusalem on pilgrimage to that heavenly country though yet still here on earth. Still, we* are *citizens of that heavenly city. The Fathers make this quite clear.

Secondly, Hebrew is a language that is distinguished by a series of basic root words, each of which can mean a number of things, and is often used to mean all of them.

Yes I am familiar with the basics of Hebrew. However, anyone who has ever, e.g., studied the writings of the prophet Isaiah knows how that work is also a literary masterpiece in its own right and is completely inundated with relentless literary devices and “flowery language”. The Bible is, moreover, awash with playful and beautiful uses of language like puns, wit and poetry. So much is lost in translation.

These people do not need another piece of poetry.

That’s funny because both our present Holy Father and his predecessor insisted on the need for people to have beauty brought into their loves (see also this) and not their supposed

need [of] a fire.

Moreover, you seem to think the people need to be terrified into submission to God. Well guess what? The prophet Isaiah combined both the thundering judgements and prophecies of God with poetry and literary devices. Truth and beauty belong together, as does goodness. The Holy Father and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI did a masterful job in Lumen Fidei of uniting and showing forth the truth, beauty and goodness of the faith: Job well done, and I am sure Isaiah himself would have approved.

However, I’m not a reductionist, and even if you’re not speaking heresy,

You cannot be serious. You have exhausted my patience.

 

[paduard]

Subsequent to the distractions entered into here [notably by 1AugustSon7] - it is fitting to bring this topic back to the basics which notably Norwich12 and myself entered into within the earlier pages. In order to proceed I will re-paste below the details provided by the Catholic theologian Duns Scotis:-

*"As referred to earlier, you might find the following passage of interest. It is from Blessed Duns Scotis; a Catholic theologian considered by many as ranking intellectually with the like of St Thomas:-

“God alone is absolutely immaterial, since He alone is absolute and perfect actuality, without any potentiality for becoming other than what He is. All creatures, angels and human souls included, are material, because they are changeable and may become the subject of accidents. But from this it does not follow that souls and angels are corporeal; on the contrary they are spiritual, physically simple, though material in the sense just explained. Since all created things, corporeal and spiritual, are composed of potentiality and actuality, the same materia prima is the foundation of all, and therefore all things have a common substratum, a common material basis. This materia, in itself quite indeterminate, may be determined to any sort of thing by a form–a spiritual form determines it to a spirit, a corporeal form to a material body”

However these are not opinions that everyone necessarily agrees with. But, for myself, I happen to think this particular one to be ‘reasonable’; although I must confess that I do not entirely understand the ‘length and depth’ of Duns Scotis’ dialogue.

Nevertheless this much surely can be said. That had he lived in the world of today and was familiar e.g. with the basics of modern particle physics, we may have been presented with a theory more aligned to our present knowledge, and that what appears to me as his somewhat loose connection with the immaterial and the corporeal could be advanced further.

This contribution therefore can be considered as in keeping within this topic i.e. inasmuch as the Encyclical emphasises that we should avoid "fragmenting time and changing it into space”.

It is of course up to forum members to articulate their own thoughts on the matter.

Paduard."*

Whilst I appreciate that this level of theology is not everyone’s cup of tea, nevertherless patience can be easily exhausted in such circumstances; especially as in this case the subject detail that has so far been entered into is a little harder than simply learning the times-table so to speak of general scripture,other quotations, and the like.

Paduard

 

[mytruepower2]

Whilst I appreciate that this level of theology is not everyone’s cup of tea, nevertherless patience can be easily exhausted in such circumstances; especially as in this case the subject detail that has so far been entered into is a little harder than simply learning the times-table so to speak of general scripture,other quotations, and the like.

Paduard

Is this really what the original poster intended? A scientific dialogue about a purely poetic metaphor?

Wow.

I’m just going to take a deep breath, count to ten, and move on to another topic now.

 

[Norwich12]

Actually I was interested in a scientific explanation of the symbolic language of LUMEN FIDEI.

For instance in the last sentence of Section 31, neurophysiologically what does “configure to Jesus” mean? Reprogramming our brains, infusion of knowledge, grace from sacraments…?​

1. It was only in this way, by taking flesh, by sharing our humanity, that the knowledge proper to love could come to full fruition. For the light of love is born when our hearts are touched and we open ourselves to the interior presence of the beloved, who enables us to recognize his mystery. Thus we can understand why, together with hearing and seeing, Saint John can speak of faith as touch, as he says in his First Letter: “What we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life” (1 Jn 1:1). By his taking flesh and coming among us, Jesus has touched us, and through the sacraments he continues to touch us even today; transforming our hearts, he unceasingly enables us to acknowledge and acclaim him as the Son of God. In faith, we can touch him and receive the power of his grace. Saint Augustine, commenting on the account of the woman suffering from haemorrhages who touched Jesus and was cured (cf. Lk 8:45-46), says: “To touch him with our hearts: that is what it means to believe”.[26] The crowd presses in on Jesus, but they do not reach him with the personal touch of faith, which apprehends the mystery that he is the Son who reveals the Father. Only when we are configured to Jesus do we receive the eyes needed to see him.

 

[mytruepower2]

Actually I was interested in a scientific explanation of the symbolic language of LUMEN FIDEI.

For instance in the last sentence of Section 31, neurophysiologically what does “configure to Jesus” mean? Reprogramming our brains, infusion of knowledge, grace from sacraments…?​

1. It was only in this way, by taking flesh, by sharing our humanity, that the knowledge proper to love could come to full fruition. For the light of love is born when our hearts are touched and we open ourselves to the interior presence of the beloved, who enables us to recognize his mystery. Thus we can understand why, together with hearing and seeing, Saint John can speak of faith as touch, as he says in his First Letter: “What we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life” (1 Jn 1:1). By his taking flesh and coming among us, Jesus has touched us, and through the sacraments he continues to touch us even today; transforming our hearts, he unceasingly enables us to acknowledge and acclaim him as the Son of God. In faith, we can touch him and receive the power of his grace. Saint Augustine, commenting on the account of the woman suffering from haemorrhages who touched Jesus and was cured (cf. Lk 8:45-46), says: “To touch him with our hearts: that is what it means to believe”.[26] The crowd presses in on Jesus, but they do not reach him with the personal touch of faith, which apprehends the mystery that he is the Son who reveals the Father. Only when we are configured to Jesus do we receive the eyes needed to see him.

I’m pretty sure “configured to Jesus” refers to our wills being united with the will of Jesus, so that we don’t use them to commit sins.

However, even this is not very specific.

 

[paduard]

Actually I was interested in a scientific explanation of the symbolic language of LUMEN FIDEI.

For instance in the last sentence of Section 31, neurophysiologically what does “configure to Jesus” mean? Reprogramming our brains, infusion of knowledge, grace from sacraments…? QUOTE]

For me the passage you quoted is relevant to the discussion inasmuch as, quoting from section 34 [which follows section 31] of the encyclical, your science reference is quite justified; and on the right lines for a reasoned discussiion of this topic.

Extraction from Section 34 reads thus:-

The dialogue between faith and reason

Once we discover the full light of Christ’s love, we realize that each of the loves in our own lives had always contained a ray of that light,
truth leads to humility, since believers know that, rather than ourselves possessing truth, it is truth which embraces and possesses us.
faith encourages the scientist to remain constantly open to reality in all its inexhaustible richness. Faith awakens the critical sense by preventing research from being satisfied with its own formulae and helps it to realize that nature is always greater. By stimulating wonder before the profound mystery of creation, faith broadens the horizons of reason to shed greater light on the world which discloses itself to scientific investigation.

The question you specifically ask re ‘configure to Jesus’ methinks would require a little more thought, at least on my part, and also to connect both extracts with one another.

Paduard

 

[mytruepower2]

Norwich12;11300505:

Actually I was interested in a scientific explanation of the symbolic language of LUMEN FIDEI.

For instance in the last sentence of Section 31, neurophysiologically what does “configure to Jesus” mean? Reprogramming our brains, infusion of knowledge, grace from sacraments…? QUOTE]

For me the passage you quoted is relevant to the discussion inasmuch as, quoting from section 34 [which follows section 31] of the encyclical, your science reference is quite justified; and on the right lines for a reasoned discussiion of this topic.

Extraction from Section 34 reads thus:-

The dialogue between faith and reason

Once we discover the full light of Christ’s love, we realize that each of the loves in our own lives had always contained a ray of that light,
truth leads to humility, since believers know that, rather than ourselves possessing truth, it is truth which embraces and possesses us.
faith encourages the scientist to remain constantly open to reality in all its inexhaustible richness. Faith awakens the critical sense by preventing research from being satisfied with its own formulae and helps it to realize that nature is always greater. By stimulating wonder before the profound mystery of creation, faith broadens the horizons of reason to shed greater light on the world which discloses itself to scientific investigation.

The question you specifically ask re ‘configure to Jesus’ methinks would require a little more thought, at least on my part, and also to connect both extracts with one another.

Paduard

I would say that it is impossible for reason to exist in the absence of faith, because some form of faith is required for all natural knowledge.

 

[Norwich12]

(please see previous post)

Thank you MTP2

---

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
(John 1:1 New Amercan Bible)

---

Yes — Logos is the Source of all knowledge. It is up to us to explore, listen, and act on that newly found knowledge.
In my example from the Encyclical–
“configured to Jesus” takes on new meaning.

We all know what “configured” means.

I took the liberty of finding another meaning of “figure.”
CON means WITH (from the Latin CUM or the Spanish WITH).

In French the English word FACE becomes VISAGE. But also a 2nd French word for “face” is FIGURE.

So “configured to Jesus” theologically could be interpreted as “with the face of Jesus” or “Imitation of Christ.”. In addition there is the enigmatic verse in 1st Corinthians 13: 12 –

"Now we are seeing a dim reflection in a mirror; but then we shall be seeing face to face.

The knowledge that I have now is imperfect; but then I shall know as I am known."
(The Jerusalem Bible)

 

[paduard]

(please see previous post)

Thank you MTP2

---

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
(John 1:1 New Amercan Bible)

---

Yes — Logos is the Source of all knowledge. It is up to us to explore, listen, and act on that newly found knowledge.
In my example from the Encyclical–
“configured to Jesus” takes on new meaning.

We all know what “configured” means.

I took the liberty of finding another meaning of “figure.”
CON means WITH (from the Latin CUM or the Spanish WITH).

In French the English word FACE becomes VISAGE. But also a 2nd French word for “face” is FIGURE.

So “configured to Jesus” theologically could be interpreted as “with the face of Jesus” or “Imitation of Christ.”. In addition there is the enigmatic verse in 1st Corinthians 13: 12 –

"Now we are seeing a dim reflection in a mirror; but then we shall be seeing face to face.

The knowledge that I have now is imperfect; but then I shall know as I am known."
(The Jerusalem Bible)

That is very interesting Norwich 12. But in the dictionary I have ‘configured’ has no entry as such - configuration is the only word referred to [which is primarily a noun]. My English is far from perfect, but in the Encyclical I take it as referring to a verb ?past tense; not a noun. Can you or anyone else advise of this? It would help I think.

 

[mytruepower2]

That is very interesting Norwich 12. But in the dictionary I have ‘configured’ has no entry as such - configuration is the only word referred to [which is primarily a noun]. My English is far from perfect, but in the Encyclical I take it as referring to a verb ?past tense; not a noun. Can you or anyone else advise of this? It would help I think.

“Configured” is a past tense verb. “Configure” is a present tense verb. “Configuration” is a noun.

 

[Norwich12]

Thank you for the clarification MTP2.

But my tangential remarks about the word “configured” were not about the noun or verb status, but possibly other meanings buried in the word.

The word “figure” in French means “face.”

I was building up to a comparison of “configured” and “Transfiguration.”

In the Transfiguration, the face of Jesus emitted brilliant light. Light is the theme of the
Encyclical.

So possibly Pope Francis was implying that each of us would have to undergo a mini – transfiguration in order to take on the eyes and mind of Christ.

I realize that interpretation is a stretch of linguistics and theology, but it was interesting to my
elderly mind.

 

[1AugustSon7]

So “configured to Jesus” theologically could be interpreted as “with the face of Jesus” or “Imitation of Christ.”.

I agree:

The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face shine upon you, And be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace.

 

[paduard]

“Configured” is a past tense verb. “Configure” is a present tense verb. “Configuration” is a noun.

Thank you for that; it’s what I thought i.e. a verb. But not in my dictionary - never mind. What would one’s thoughts be if we were to put the whole together [make our own dictionary so to speak]- ‘configuredto’…then Christ?

 

[mytruepower2]

Thank you for that; it’s what I thought i.e. a verb. But not in my dictionary - never mind. What would one’s thoughts be if we were to put the whole together [make our own dictionary so to speak]- ‘configuredto’…then Christ?

If we were truly configured to Christ, we would shun the praise of other human beings, stop seeking wealth, power and influence (at least for its own sake,) and yearn only for the salvation of souls.

In addition, we would seek to conform our ethical and life philosophy to that of Jesus and the saints, and would re-examine every other belief we hold in light of that. I’m convinced that many of our old beliefs would need to be discarded. At least that’s how it happened to me.

I used to base the entirety of my philosophy on the first and most obvious principle that evil exists. However, when I began researching Christian philosophy, I discovered that evil is merely an absence of Good, which should be there. So this key element of my philosophy had to be discarded (or at least, heavily modified.) Evil exists, but not as an actual, existent thing. It exists in the same way a hole in a doughnut does.

If this kind of theological truth can push out a lie that was once at the base of my whole philosophy, then others can allow the lies to be pushed out of their life; especially lies to themselves about authentic ethics, and what you can justify doing on behalf of the common good.

 

[paduard]

If we were truly configured to Christ, we would shun the praise of other human beings, stop seeking wealth, power and influence (at least for its own sake,) and yearn only for the salvation of souls.

In addition, we would seek to conform our ethical and life philosophy to that of Jesus and the saints, and would re-examine every other belief we hold in light of that. I’m convinced that many of our old beliefs would need to be discarded. At least that’s how it happened to me.

I used to base the entirety of my philosophy on the first and most obvious principle that evil exists. However, when I began researching Christian philosophy, I discovered that evil is merely an absence of Good, which should be there. So this key element of my philosophy had to be discarded (or at least, heavily modified.) Evil exists, but not as an actual, existent thing. It exists in the same way a hole in a doughnut does.

If this kind of theological truth can push out a lie that was once at the base of my whole philosophy, then others can allow the lies to be pushed out of their life; especially lies to themselves about authentic ethics, and what you can justify doing on behalf of the common good.

I really do appreciate everything you are saying here and except for the 1st para. offer no objection whatsoever.

However I agree with Norwich 12 when he stated:-

"So possibly Pope Francis was implying that each of us would have to undergo a mini – transfiguration in order to take on the eyes and mind of Christ."

So I don’t think that we are speaking here (at least I am not) of shunning or anything otherwise directed to other human beings, even though what you say is correct in the spiritual sense. No - what we are talking about here is how we SEE others through the eyes of Jesus [albeit through a glass darkly] and if one can advance sufficiently through our individual love of Him we can SEE especially those for example who we dislike etc. and then form a quite different sight according to the eyes of Christ…and so on.

God Bless
Paduard

 

[Norwich12]

Thank you Paduard.
I am glad we both linked “configured to Jesus”
and “Transfiguration of Christ.”
I have copy/pasted my own post exactly 3 months ago on this same thread on page 1.

Now the last paragraph below, the discussion by Deacon Fournier,
takes on new personal meaning for all Christians

///////////////////////////

From New Advent Catholic Encylopedia

The Transfiguration of Christ is the culminating point of His public life, as His Baptism is its starting point, and His Ascension its end. Moreover, this glorious event has been related in detail by St. Matthew (17:1-6), St. Mark (9:1-8), and St. Luke (9:28-36), while St. Peter (2 Peter 1:16-18) and St. John (1:14), two of the privileged witnesses, make allusion to it.

About a week after His sojourn in Cæsarea Philippi, Jesus took with him Peter and James and John and led them to a high mountain apart, where He was transfigured before their ravished eyes. St. Matthew and St. Mark express this phenomenon by the word metemorphothe, which the Vulgate renders transfiguratus est. The Synoptics explain the true meaning of the word by adding “his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow,” according to the Vulgate, or “as light,” according to the Greek text.

This dazzling brightness which emanated from His whole Body was produced by an interior shining of His Divinity. False Judaism had rejected the Messias, and now true Judaism, represented by Moses and Elias, the Law and the Prophets, recognized and adored Him, while for the second time God the Father proclaimed Him His only-begotten and well-loved Son. By this glorious manifestation the Divine Master, who had just foretold His Passion to the Apostles (Matthew 16:21), and who spoke with Moses and Elias of the trials which awaited Him at Jerusalem, strengthened the faith of his three friends and prepared them for the terrible struggle of which they were to be witnesses in Gethsemani, by giving them a foretaste of the glory and heavenly delights to which we attain by suffering.

---

By Deacon Keith Fournier
2/24/2013
Catholic Online

The Lord Jesus has also shown us the way up the mountain. He has invited us into a new way of living in Him through living within the communion of the Church. Living in that Church we are invited to go into the world and invite all men and women, through the waters of the womb of Baptism, into the new communion of love where they can begin the process of conversion and transfiguration. Born again, we are all invited to join with Peter, James and John and cry out in our day: “It is good for us to be here.”