Mandatory mask poll

[vz71]

Not wearing a mask is akin to inviting someone to come close and take a chance on dying by my breathing on them; wearing a mask is akin to caring about the welfare of the person approaching, both his psychological trust and his actual physical well-being, so that he knows I have his welfare in mind as if he were myself.

No, it is not akin to anything of the sort.

The reason you have to go to such extremes top make the point is because the point cannot be logically drawn out.

 

[vz71]

This is a logical fallacy. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Just because no one could definitely prove you killed someone does not definitively prove that you haven’t.

True. But absent any knowledge by any one person, there is no culpability for this particular.

Culpability in a sin requires knowledge of the sinful nature of the act.
In this case, people are trying to make it a sinful act to not wear a mask.

They are being silly.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

True. But absent any knowledge by any one person, there is no culpability for this particular.

Culpability in a sin requires knowledge of the sinful nature of the act.
In this case, people are trying to make it a sinful act to not wear a mask.

They are being silly.

None of this is coherent. The knowledge would be the knowledge that you could mitigate the risk and choose not to, not the knowledge of whether anyone actually died.

Suppose there was a good chance I had HIV and I went around having unprotected sex with various people without disclosing that. Am I not culpable for putting people at risk, even if I don’t know if I actually transmitted the virus?

 

[TheIttyBitty]

It’s interesting with organ damage…there needs to be some citation showing that those people showing organ damage was recent to their infection and that the patients didn’t previously have organ damage (correlation doesn’t imply causation…)…

I have organ damage (to my liver, unknown cause, been tested for everything under the sun for it without any reason discovered) from previous to 2020. If it had never been diagnosed previously, they could have gotten away with saying it was due to covid?..

 

[TC3033]

I’ve done a lot of research and there’s no way I could begin to share it here,

Sure you can. I’ll even give you a hand.

Open up a reply window here on CAF.
Open another tab in your selected internet browser, look up one of your citations.
Double click the address so it’s highlighted then either A) ulitize CNTRl +C or right click and select copy to copy the address.
Come back here to CAF. In your reply window utilize CTRL +V or Right click and past to enter your citation into the reply window.

Repeat until you believe you have entered an appropriate amount of peer reviewed citations.

 

[Aulef]

The government has natural authority over us so we owe obedience to it.

We may reject civil laws when they violate natural or divine law. Notice we don’t challenge its authority; only bad laws.

In this case, mandatory masks, there is no violation, so we are bound to it even if it is unecessary (it is a good oportunity to develop some virtues if not necessary)

 

[vz71]

The knowledge would be the knowledge that you could mitigate the risk and choose not to, not the knowledge of whether anyone actually died.

OK, so convince me masks are effective.
Then convince me that I should wear one in good health to protect people from…nothing.

And while you are at it, we need a campaign to teach the public that masks are not the protection they think they are and they should still continue to wash hands, use sanitizer, avoid going out if you are sick, etc…

Which, I still have not seen addressed at all.
I would be an easy person to convince.
Here is my premise…

I, without my mask, am safer than most other people with.
I have no mask.
I am careful to police any sneeze or cough.
I wash hands often.
I sanitize my hands in between washings
I also use disinfectant on surfaces I am working on.
I do not have physical contact with others, and I maintain a distance of several feet…except when there is a physical barrier.

The majority of those with a mask on…don’t.
They rely exclusively on a mask.
They wear it wrong.
They do not police coughs or sneezes.
They do not wash hands.
They do not sanitize surfaces around them.

But hey, they have a mask…so we are OK.

I maintain that legislating masks is counter productive.
It lulls people into a false security and invites more spread.

 

[vz71]

Suppose there was a good chance I had HIV and I went around having unprotected sex with various people without disclosing that. Am I not culpable for putting people at risk, even if I don’t know if I actually transmitted the virus?

Somewhat off topic…
but given the way HIV is spread, I do not believe it possible to have sex without risking transmission…protected or otherwise.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

OK, so convince me masks are effective.
Then convince me that I should wear one in good health to protect people from…nothing.

This is why I careful to explain that I wasn’t addressing people who don’t think masks are effective. Though I still disagree, I don’t believe not wearing a mask for that reason would be sinful.

What would be sinful would be saying “I think masks do offer some protection, I just don’t care what happens to other people.”

 

[vz71]

In this case, mandatory masks, there is no violation, so we are bound to it even if it is unecessary (it is a good oportunity to develop some virtues if not necessary)

Masks are not mandatory where I live.
I doubt they ever will be.

 

[Aulef]

They are where I live…

 

[vz71]

“I think masks do offer some protection, I just don’t care what happens to other people.”

I would agree with this statement.
Knowing something can help, and not doing that thing, can be considered a venial sin.

I do not believe it is much more then a lack of charity sin.

 

[vz71]

The government has natural authority over us so we owe obedience to it.

Allow me to clarify my position further…

If you want to wear a mask, go ahead.
If you want me to wear a mask around you…ask.

I do not believe it should be legislated. That would be counter to fighting the spread of the disease.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

They are where I live…

I don’t think they are here either, technically, although everyone does anyway. Not to mention virtually every private business mandates it, so if you really don’t want to wear one, fine, but you can’t go anywhere.

 

[27lw]

RolandThompsonGunner:

The knowledge would be the knowledge that you could mitigate the risk and choose not to, not the knowledge of whether anyone actually died.

OK, so convince me masks are effective. Then convince me that I should wear one in good health to protect people from...nothing. And while you are at it, we need a campaign to teach the public that masks are not the protection they think they are and they should still continue to wash hands, use sanitizer, avoid going out if you are sick, etc...
Which, I still have not seen addressed at all.
I would be an easy person to convince.
Here is my premise…

I, without my mask, am safer than most other people with.
I have no mask.
I am careful to police any sneeze or cough.
I wash hands often.
I sanitize my hands in between washings
I also use disinfectant on surfaces I am working on.
I do not have physical contact with others, and I maintain a distance of several feet…except when there is a physical barrier.

The majority of those with a mask on…don’t.
They rely exclusively on a mask.
They wear it wrong.
They do not police coughs or sneezes.
They do not wash hands.
They do not sanitize surfaces around them.

But hey, they have a mask…so we are OK.

I maintain that legislating masks is counter productive.
It lulls people into a false security and invites more spread.

Post 460 and 461.

In this thread.
The juicy bits are highlighted or in bold.

If you can be bothered to read it.
But it takes good bit of effort. And you already tried to refute it. Incorrectly.

 

[ForeverLearn]

Any statement otherwise would require proof…and that would be exceedingly difficult to determine.

I agree with this.

Since it would require a positive accusation and proof, I can safely say, no. I have killed no one.

Maybe in terms of the law, but not in terms of fact. If you infected someone, who infected someone else, who infected someone else who died, then indirectly, you contributed to killing someone. Now I realize that creates a scenario of many situations where the same thing could be said, however, in this case if it can be said that wearing a mask could save lives, then I their is a responsibility to do so.

 

[RuthAnne]

Masks are not mandatory where I live.
I doubt they ever will be.

Not here, either. But I doubt it will last.

In the meantime, I’ll just get my kicks out of dirty looks, which I get a lot of . . .

 

[27lw]

Does any of this apply to mask refusal?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

http://archphila.org/HHS/pdf/CoopEvilChart.pdf

 

[Aulef]

I understand your point and it makes sense.

What I mean, though, is if the government decides to legislate, we have to obey.

 

[27lw]

Aulef:

The government has natural authority over us so we owe obedience to it.

Allow me to clarify my position further…

If you want to wear a mask, go ahead.
If you want me to wear a mask around you…ask.

I do not believe it should be legislated. That would be counter to fighting the spread of the disease.

So you want every person who works with the public to ask every non-mask wearer, “could you please wear a mask?”

That’ll go well…
Have you seen videos of mask refusers throwing fits?