Married man to be ordained as priest

[Beau_Ouiville]

"If all goes as planned, the Archdiocese of Milwaukee will install its second married priest next spring with the ordination of Deacon Russell Arnett, a former Episcopal priest who converted to Catholicism in 2007.

Arnett, who was ordained a deacon by Archbishop Jerome Listecki in October, would be the first priest in the diocese to enter through the so-called pastoral provision, a 1980 Vatican provision that made it easier for Anglican clergy and laity to convert to Catholicism."

jsonline.com/features/religion/106805513.html

 

[LemonAndLime]

One of the Priests at my parish is married with several children. He and his whole family converted together several years ago. I don’t see a problem with it really - he was married before he was ordained and he’s an excellent hospital chaplain and his masses are beautiful. He sings most of the words during mass.

 

[Totterman]

Jesus,our Lords peace be with You.
First,sorry for my bad english,and sorry for this ansver. A Catholic priest must be able to give all he have to the parish and the Church. He can not do it if he are obligated to serve “two masters”,The Church and his family. It is not fair to both parts. I am not a priest,but I have the call to it,now I am to old [and sick] but I was married once,I am father of a daughter and a son and a step-daughter,I divorced in 1994,and I remember well what I felt in my effort to be a good father and catholic at the same time. Call me old-fashion because I guess I am,and I also say NO to the idea of letting priest get married,because this is what will happend sooner or later,and that is not for the good of the Church I love and serve in my own way,praying and thinking. Sorry if this was not what You wanted to hear my dear friend,but I can’t lie.

 

[fermat]

Jesus,our Lords peace be with You.
First,sorry for my bad english,and sorry for this ansver. A Catholic priest must be able to give all he have to the parish and the Church. He can not do it if he are obligated to serve “two masters”,The Church and his family. It is not fair to both parts. I am not a priest,but I have the call to it,now I am to old [and sick] but I was married once,I am father of a daughter and a son and a step-daughter,I divorced in 1994,and I remember well what I felt in my effort to be a good father and catholic at the same time. Call me old-fashion because I guess I am,and I also say NO to the idea of letting priest get married,because this is what will happend sooner or later,and that is not for the good of the Church I love and serve in my own way,praying and thinking. Sorry if this was not what You wanted to hear my dear friend,but I can’t lie.

Just for clarification, this priest was already married. You cannot become a priest and then get married, but if you are a priest in certain other faiths, you can convert, be ordained and remain married. This is referred to the Pastoral Provision. It was established under Pope John Paul II to address Episcopal priest who wished to become Catholic.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

I also say NO to the idea of letting priest get married,

With all due respect, no one is talking about that, and the Church never “lets priests get married.”

This is the ordination to the priesthood of an already married man, which is entirely different.

I agree with you that priestly celibacy is a wonderful discipline that the Latin church of the Catholic Church should preserve and enforce.

But thoughtful exceptions - in which married men are ordained, not in which unmarried priests get married, which is never allowed - are no threat to the discipline of the celibacy of the priesthood, as you seem to imply:

because this is what will happend sooner or later

This is just paranoia. Allowing married Episcopalian clergy who convert to the true Catholic faith to be ordained as Roman Catholic priests is not part of any slippery slope; it’s a thoughtful, practical, and wisely implemented exception. There is no evidence that this exception indicates the Latin church will abandon its centuries-old discipline of priestly celibacy.

Furthermore, be careful with your blanket statements about celibacy in general. It’s a noble and profound discipline, but the Catholic Church would be quite corrupt indeed if priestly celibacy were strictly necessary, since the Church has, throughout her history, ordained many married men:

In the eastern Catholic churches today, the priesthood is open to married men. And although all Catholic ritual churches today have a celibate episcopacy, that doesn’t change the fact that many of the Church’s first bishops were married, including St. Peter, the first bishop of Rome and thus the first pope.

In fact, there have been other validly married popes as well. Pope St. Silverius is the legitimate son of Pope St. Hormisdas. (Admittedly, St. Hormisdas was already a widower when elected pope, though.)

 

[Bob_Aliano]

I’m a firm believer in priestly celibacy and it bothers me to see the Roman Catholic Church nibbling around the edges of the rule. I can understand allowing a widower with children to be ordained but the rest of these allowances are likely to continue to expand as various other denominations decide to go Catholic. I agree with the poster who worried this might be a bit of a slippery slope. As an example, why is it OK for an married Anglican priest to be ordained into the Catholic priesthood but not OK if a married Catholic deacon desires it, are they really that different theologically?

 

[OriginalJS]

In a church I used to attend a well-liked priest who married a nun was let go, only to be replaced by a married priest. The development was difficult for many to understand although technically correct under current rules. Married priests are nothing new.

 

[ProVobis]

I’m not downgrading the issue of celibacy here but it seems as if adherence to Catholic doctrine should take a front seat here, rather than his marital state. This would be true for any convert to Catholicism but especially a cleric who will be teaching that doctrine. My concern is whether there was time enough to learn all the doctrine, the reasons for all Church disciplines, and, to some extent, canon law. English theology isn’t quite Latin Rite theology, but I’m not going to judge the priest on his intentions or his knowledge.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

In a church I used to attend a well-liked priest who married a nun was let go, only to be replaced by a married priest. The development was difficult for many to understand although technically correct under current rules. Married priests are nothing new.

A priest and nun each violating their vows and marrying is pretty extreme! I think in this thread we are talking about devout Catholics who are married and later receive their calling to the priesthood.

 

[HAnne]

The Father at our current parish is a formerly “married priest”. He became a widow after his wife passed on. He’s a wonderful, kind leader of his flock. As a convert, this would have struck me as weird if he were still married, but once a kind parishioner explained it better I understood as best I can. Ours is not to question why.

 

[David2010]

We have a married priest in our diocese too. He started out as an Anglican priest and later converted under the process accepted by several popes, including the present one. He holds masses at our parish quite often (when our regular priest is away) and is very good. Can’t say I have noticed any detrimental effect on his service. Although I suppose his wife feels neglected, having to share her husband with God and an entire parish.

 

[countertenor]

Why suppose that his wife feels neglected? I’ve known several married priests, and this doesn’t really seem to be an issue. Often times the wives are very much involved in the parish, and in everything their husbands do, to the extent that they can be.

My son’s godfather is the son of a priest, and has nothing but the best things to say about it. People simply aren’t used to married priests, and to priests having families and people should stop assuming or presuming things, about these men and their families. Honestly the best parish priest I’ve ever had the privilege to know and have as my parish priest was a married priest.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I find it odd that the Church will bend the rules to allow a married man be a Priest, but will stop not allow a woman to be one.

 

[canadianguy1143]

I’m a firm believer in priestly celibacy and it bothers me to see the Roman Catholic Church nibbling around the edges of the rule. I can understand allowing a widower with children to be ordained but the rest of these allowances are likely to continue to expand as various other denominations decide to go Catholic. I agree with the poster who worried this might be a bit of a slippery slope. As an example, why is it OK for an married Anglican priest to be ordained into the Catholic priesthood but not OK if a married Catholic deacon desires it, are they really that different theologically?

I understand what you are saying but I believe that married men should be allowed to become Priests if there is the calling. Celibacy is a discipline and remember that for the first thousand years, you had Pope’s that had kids.

Regarding your question about why is it okay that a married Anglican Priest to be ordained into the Catholic priesthood and not a married Catholic deacon is one that I don’t understand either but I think having married men become Priests can help in a supporting role with a parish with perhaps a celibate Priest as the “Pastor”. It might help to keep parishes from closing due to a lack of clergy. It would sure beat having Communion services with a layperson.

 

[JW10631]

The provision was established by Pope John Paul II and expanded by Pope Benedict to allow for Anglican communities to enter the Catholic Church. Each Anglican or Episcopal priest must undergo formation as a Catholic priest and then be ordained as a Catholic priest. This provision is the only exception to the celibacy law that has been in force in the Latin Church for nearly a thousand years.

Catholic priests who were formerly Anglican priests minister, for the most part, to their own parishes that have converted from Anglicanism. One can find out more by checking out the websites for Our Lady of Atonement and Our Lady of Walsingham parishes, both of which are located in Texas.

Eastern Catholic Churches may ordain married men, though they usually, but not always, refrain from doing so in the United States. Their episcopacy is made up of celibate or widowed men.

 

[fermat]

I find it odd that the Church will bend the rules to allow a married man be a Priest, but will stop not allow a woman to be one.

It has to do with what the Church has the power to do. She has the power to change the disciplines that are applied to the faithful. She does not how the power confer priestly ordination on women. I would recommend that you read Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

JPII goes through reasons why priestly ordination is reserved for men. Here’s the punchline:
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

So we are really talking about two very different issues. The Church sets disciplines and defines doctrines and dogmas. Female ordination is not something the Church has the ability to change.

 

[LemonAndLime]

It has to do with what the Church has the power to do. She has the power to change the disciplines that are applied to the faithful. She does not how the power confer priestly ordination on women. I would recommend that you read Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

JPII goes through reasons why priestly ordination is reserved for men. Here’s the punchline:
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

So we are really talking about two very different issues. The Church sets disciplines and defines doctrines and dogmas. Female ordination is not something the Church has the ability to change.

So basically, by allowing married men to become Priests they’re just changing the wording of an existing contract, whereas ordaining female Priests would be creating a brand new contract?

But surely if you can alter the “contract” to allow married men to become Priests, it’s just as simple to change the word male to female? I still don’t understand why women can’t become Priests.

 

[rlg94086]

So basically, by allowing married men to become Priests they’re just changing the wording of an existing contract, whereas ordaining female Priests would be creating a brand new contract?

But surely if you can alter the “contract” to allow married men to become Priests, it’s just as simple to change the word male to female? I still don’t understand why women can’t become Priests.

There have been married priests since the Early Church, even though celibacy has always been preferred. The Latin Church has had the “discipline” of unmarried, celibate clergy, but a discipline can be changed.

There have never been priestesses in the Catholic Church. Christ chose male apostles to lead His Church. Had He chosen female apostles, then we would probably have female clergy. This is dogma and not changeable.

 

[LemonAndLime]

There have been married priests since the Early Church, even though celibacy has always been preferred. The Latin Church has had the “discipline” of unmarried, celibate clergy, but a discipline can be changed.

There have never been priestesses in the Catholic Church. Christ chose male apostles to lead His Church. Had He chosen female apostles, then we would probably have female clergy. This is dogma and not changeable.

Some would argue that he selected Mary Magdeline as one of his apostles as I think in the Dead Sea Scrolls there was found a book written by her.
Wikipedia:

The late 20th and early 21st century has seen a restoration of the New Testament figure of Mary Magdalene as a patron of women’s preaching and ministry. Her new popularity has stemmed in part from the recognition that Mary Magdalene has suffered from what some believe to have been a historical defamation of character. She has been thought to be misidentified as a repentant prostitute in historical tradition, and depicted in art as a weeping sinner wiping Jesus’ feet with her hair. Some New Testament scholarship has shown that this picture of Mary Magdalene is not true.[5]

According to Luke 8:2 and Mark 16:9, Jesus cleansed her of “seven demons,” a concept usually associated in the New Testament with healing from illness,[6] not forgiveness of sin. Mary Magdalene is the leader of a group of women disciples who are present at the cross, when the male disciples (excepting John the Beloved) have fled, and at his burial. Mary was a devoted follower of Jesus, entering into the close circle of those taught by Jesus during his Galilean ministry. She became prominent during the last days, accompanying Jesus during his travels and following him to the end. She witnessed his Crucifixion and burial. According to all four Gospels in the Christian New Testament, she was the first person to see the resurrected Christ.[7]

Mary Magdalene is referred to in early Christian writings as “the apostle to the apostles.” In apocryphal texts, she is portrayed as a visionary and leader of the early movement, who was loved by Jesus more than the other disciples.[8] Several Gnostic gospels, such as the Gospel of Mary, written in the early second century, see Mary as the special disciple of Jesus who has a deeper understanding of his teachings and is asked to impart this to the other disciples.

If Mary was the apostle of the apostles, why then is that not justification for women priests?

 

[rlg94086]

Some would argue that he selected Mary Magdeline as one of his apostles as I think in the Dead Sea Scrolls there was found a book written by her.

If Mary was the apostle of the apostles, why then is that not justification for women priests?

“Some” would not include the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church.