Mary, Joseph, and Jesus put in a Detention Cage

[MonteRCMS]

Great - but your approach is that the kids can either be taken away from the parents to some unknown place without any communication or the parents can take their kids back to wherever and put them in danger.

Stay home!

 

[Cathoholic]

pnewton . . .

You can’t hijack a statue. It is inanimate.

Sure you can pnewton.

The statues were used used as a mere illegal immigration political prop.

80% of girls and women making the dangerous trek from Central America to the USA are raped.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/12/central-america-migrants-rape_n_5806972.html

People who have been encouraging and
incentivizing these illegal activities of illegal alien$,
and ALL THE DANGEROUS RISKS to keep getting cheap labor to the US and/or for and a crop of new socialist-minded voters, ought to be ashamed of themselves.

(I am not saying YOU think this way pnewton)

If LEGAL immigration activists
(people who vocally favor following laws regarding border enforcement)
used statues of children being raped by other statues of smugglers in a dry cactus-ridden area
as a public statue display (all the worse if they dared to use the Holy Family)
with a sign that said
“U.S. Border. 1 Mile Ahead”,
with looks of terror on the faces of these victimized children-statues being raped
and the people who set up the scene took other steps to imply . . .

. . . YOU want to incentivize child rape, . . . .

. . . . you too would decry this as mere political manipulation. A political hijacking of the statues.

The statues were used used as a mere illegal immigration political prop.

I stand by my assertion.

 

[pnewton]

with looks of terror on the faces of these victimized children-statues being raped
and the people who set up the scene took other steps to imply . . .

. . . YOU want to incentivize child rape, . . . .

. . . . you too would decry this as mere political manipulation.

No, I would just blow it off as another stupid, nativist argument.

The difference here, is that Jesus Himself taught this same principle in Matthew 25, yet no one would say he hijacked prisoners, the sick, the needy, or the stranger, That which Jesus used is hardly to be criticized.

 

[Cathoholic]

(name removed by moderator) . . .

For those who think it’s just Catholic Bishops condemning the separation of children and Bishops see the letter from Metropolitan Tikhon of the Orthodox Church in America below:

(name removed by moderator). Aside from what the Bishops are saying here, I just want to take this opportunity to remind the readers here that “the conservatives” here on CAF LIKEWISE are not in favor of removing children FROM their PARENTS.

Keep them with their parents, BUT NOT keep them with their smugglers (who may end up raping them AGAIN even IN a detention center.

No! These kids MUST be removed.

But NOBODY that I have seen here has been advocating for removal FROM PARENTS.

I mentioned that explicitly weeks ago (here).

I am not advocating seperating kids from parents.

Since then, President Trump has also stopped that.

Expedited deportment for illegal aliens is an appropriate action though. The illegal parents AND the illegal kids.

And it MUST be respected that the U.S. Government is going to need at least SOME REASONABLE amount of time sorting out WHO is REALLY a parent versus those smuggler-rapists who merely “claim” to be their “parents”.

These children with “parents” that are dubious,
MUST NOT be placed in facilities with their potential raping abusive smugglers masquerading as their “PARENTS”!

Nobody from a liberal perspective (I am not saying that is “you” (name removed by moderator)) is honestly openly attempting to make this distinction. At least that I have seen.

The parents should have thought these issues through before doing this illegal act. This is the illegal parents fault. Not the U.S. Government’s.

People encouraging and incentivizing this risky illegal behavior are also to be seen as sharing in this guilt morally.

Real refugees (are not lawbreakers) are an exception and should come LEGALLY via ports of entry.

 

[Cathoholic]

pnewton . . .

No, I would just blow it off as another stupid, nativist argument.

The difference here, is that Jesus Himself taught this same principle in Matthew 25, yet no one would say he hijacked prisoners, the sick, the needy, or the stranger, That which Jesus used is hardly to be criticized.

Then you have not thought this through enough pnewton.

You can do all the above.

You can obey the border laws
AND help the stranger and sojourner
and help the prisoner,
AND NOT USE the Holy Family as political props.

.

Don’t you think Jesus taught against rape!? (At least implicitly)

Why would the hypothetical statue scene I mentioned merely be “stupid” and “nativist”?

What would you say to a “conservative” if he said, just ignore the treaties, take some land away from American Indians, and GIVE IT to illegal aliens?

(I am not advocating this. I just wonder what you would say to such a person. This will give me insight as to the principles you are using here.)

 

[pnewton]

Then you have not thought this through enough pnewton.

Because I do not agree with you?

Whether one uses verbal representation of Jesus (as he did in Matthew 25) or representation of Him in plastic, comparing him to the poor as if he is the poor, is not problematic. If we bow at the name of Jesus, yet he can say He is the stranger, it is less a thing to use that made by human hands to make the same statement.

If one were to use His actual body, without proper adoration, that would be a desecration.

 

[JonNC]

The court only rules on legal matters. It is the Church, both the Catholic Church and most of the rest of Christendom leadership, that has denounced the immorality of his actions.

I have always been reticent to criticize the bishops on this forum, but this appeal to authority needs a response. They are seemingly silent on the immorality of Mexico for not offering asylum, allowing the coyotes to operate. They don’t have much to say, it seems, about how the governments in Central America operate.
Or, It may just be that posters don’t quote them on those topics. Either way, the appeal to the authority of the bishops is uneven at best.

 

[JonNC]

A person who requests asylum is a VICTIM, not a criminal.

Many times, but not always.

It was the Trump administration who further victimized an already traumatized population with its zero-tolerance policy aimed at deterring asylum seekers at the border.

Nonsense. They just imposed the law. As soon as someone crosses the border illegally, the terms change.

Attempting to take away a person’s right to seek safety for themselves and their children, and then taking away their children, is an absolutely heinous thing to do.

And none of that has been done.

What is deranged is the way you have turned morality up-side-down in order to avoid having to admit that Trump’s policy has lead to the United States perpetrating a grave evil on innocent children.

If I thought for a moment that what Trump, or Obama and Bush before him, or recent congresses, or the Ninth Circuit was heinous, I would say so. The care the children have received has been anything but heinous.

 

[dvdjs]

They are seemingly silent on the immorality of Mexico for not offering asylum, allowing the coyotes to operate. They don’t have much to say, it seems, about how the governments in Central America operate.

Presumably, this criticism comes from bishops in Mexico and Central America.
I don’t think that they have been silent. Saint Óscar Romero comes to mind.

 

[JonNC]

The discussion regarding gender dysphoria is not about klinefelter. Conflating the two muddies the water.
That said, perhaps we will see a development in their comments about migration.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

They are seemingly silent on the immorality of Mexico for not offering asylum, allowing the coyotes to operate. They don’t have much to say, it seems, about how the governments in Central America operate.

Presumably, this criticism comes from bishops in Mexico and Central America.
I don’t think that they have been silent. Saint Óscar Romero comes to mind.

Do you have a reference to what the Holy Father has said about it?

 

[dvdjs]

Do you have a reference to what the Holy Father has said about it?

No. What has he said?

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Do you have a reference to what the Holy Father has said about it?

No. What has he said?

I don’t know. That’s why I asked.

 

[Cathoholic]

Statues with . . .

looks of terror on the faces of these victimized children-statues being raped . . .

And YOU would just “blow that off” as “another stupid, nativist argument”.

But putting statues of the Holy Family in a cage . . .

. . . which is pure politics at least now (it isn’t U.S. policy at least. Exceptions MUST be made while sorting out who REAL parents are and are not) . . . .

. . . . is sharing the Gospel to you pnewton.

.

But not children who are being molested (which is NOT mere politics and has NEVER been U.S. policy).

I’ll remenber that for future reference that you think that way pnewton. Covfefe.

But at least this means I should be able to safely assume you are supportive of Father Pavone and a REAL dead baby from a REAL immoral U.S. policy that CONTINUES to be carried out to this day.

So THAT is good on you pnewton.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/priest-slammed-for-using-dead-baby-as-political-prop-94298

.

Just a reminder for people coming to this thread late.

A reminder that pnewton would “blow off” if THIS injustice (below) were depicted in statues . . . .

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/12/central-america-migrants-rape_n_5806972.html

 

[Cathoholic]

jagged . . .

Where they are in danger . . .

If they are in danger jagged, come via ports of entry.

That obviates the issues you (and I) are concerned about and preserves the rule of law, and vets them at the same time.

We can do better than this immoral paradigm that has been going on in one form or another for many many years.

 

[Cathoholic]

Jagged . . .

the people that were separated did come in ports of entry.

Not as a matter of policy.

 

[Luke6_37]

The discussion regarding gender dysphoria is not about klinefelter. Conflating the two muddies the water.
That said, perhaps we will see a development in their comments about migration.

The existence of humans created by God who are physically both male and female is certainly relevant to the assertion that God created humans to be either male or female.

 

[pnewton]

Or, It may just be that posters don’t quote them on those topics. Either way, the appeal to the authority of the bishops is uneven at best.

It is not a fallacy for a Catholic. As a convert, the question of authority is one that must be settled first. Everything I post here, in one way or another, has a hierarchy of authority. If I did not believe in this moral authority, when presented in unison, I would not be Catholic, I would not even be Christian, as it seems quite clear to me that the Holy Spirit has moved the leaders of his body to speak with a unity rarely seen.

I think the reason we have not seen more about the other issues is two fold. First, the bishops of Mexico have been speaking out about these and other issues, some to the point of death. Second, you “hear” what is reported, unless you are like me and read the diocesan paper. As to the internet, depending on your search engine, what you get is filter to be sensational, and perhaps one sided. Even as I have an anger of this injustice, I am not blind to the bias that exists. That is why I ignore most of the negative conjecture on the internet as partisan manipulation.

 

[Cathoholic]

Kirstjen Nielsen, the Homeland Security secretary, said this week that the authorities were not separating families “legitimately seeking asylum” at a port of entry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/world/americas/mexico-family-separation-immigration.html

.

I pointed out . . .

Asylum seekers may come into the USA for vetting via ports of entry without intra-family separation (at least while making SURE they are parents and authentic asylum seekers).

jagged (offering no evidence) said . . .

In many cases, the people that were separated did come in ports of entry.

I reminded jagged . . .

Not as a matter of policy.

Jagged’s response?

Um, yes, as a matter of policy.

WHAT is the “policy”?

Here it is again . . .

Kirstjen Nielsen, the Homeland Security secretary, said this week that the authorities were not separating families “legitimately seeking asylum” at a port of entry.

 

[Cathoholic]

jagged on immigration problems. Problems that are much wider than merelt the USA by the way.

any time that the Republicans feel like getting around to fixing it . . .

Selective “blame games” while Rome is proverbially burning.