Mary, Joseph, and Jesus put in a Detention Cage

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, the Republicans run all branches of the government, so, yes, they do own any problems, especially a self-induced one like this. It’s amazing how Republicans will take no responsibility when they are in charge of everything and still try to blame Democrats.

By now you are surely aware of the Flores decisions of the Ninth Circuit which prohibit the government from keeping minors in detention with adults. Have you read them yet?

 

[dvdjs]

By now you are surely aware of the Flores decisions of the Ninth Circuit which prohibit the government from keeping minors in detention with adults.

I think that you are aware that the requirements are not as cut and dried as you say.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think that you are aware that the requirements are not as cut and dried as you say.

Tell us then, counselor, in what way, precisely, did the Ninth Circuit allow for detention of minors together with adults. And while you’re at it, explain why the Obama administration found itself unable to keep them together?

 

[Cathoholic]

Luke6_37 . . .

With regard to national borders, they must been seen as arbitrary standards to aid in the regulation of the population. They are not walls designed to keep people out.

But I never sad this.

I am opposed to “the wall” and have stated so clearly on CAF.

You can DO BOTH Luke6_37.

You can help real immigrants settle somewhere, without dissolving your borders. Just like the Vatican does.

You argument is a false dilemma and is not persuasive.

 

[dvdjs]

Tell us then, counselor, in what way, precisely, did the Ninth Circuit allow for detention of minors together with adults.

Curious to ask about this after some many of our posts, did not include this information.
But let me refer you this previous conversation on the matter.

#WalkAway Movement to Abandon Liberalism Goes Viral | Breitbart World News

I take it from your limited response that you agree that “separation without notice, notice of family members whereabouts, or without communication” is not required. That is a good start. It is not clear from case law that a short, joint stay in suitable facilities would be ruled incompatible with Flores. The sense of “without unnecessary delay” had allowed 5 days, and in the 2015, the courts allowed that holding families for longer than five days - up to 20 days. “may fall within the parame…

 

[Luke6_37]

You can help real immigrants settle somewhere, without dissolving your borders. Just like the Vatican does.

You argument is a false dilemma and is not persuasive

This talk of “dissolving borders” is a nonstarter for me. It is just another way of saying “open borders”, which is right-wing Nativist rhetoric. I just listened to a Fox News clip that featured a Trump supporter using that same tactic. I have no interest in providing a platform for anyone who buys into that.

Feel free to engage other people on this forum with your arguments. I won’t be offended if you ignore me.

 

[Cathoholic]

pnewton . . .

Wow, you are all over the map.

I am right-on here.

The MAGA cap stealing and assault of the child
by the guy who was triggered by a mere MAGA cap
is a microcosmic barometer of what is being attempted in society.

Just like Rand Paul’s neighbor.

And I’ll tell you WHY this discord is going on in our country (but you may not see it).

Premeditated murder of our innocent babies.

And people who go along with that (sometimes by silence about the abortion issue) still have a
God-given drive to be MORAL.

So they create immoralities that don’t exist (so they can fight against them and feel better. It serves as “conscience salve”.) OR . . .

. . . they grossly MAGNIFY immoralities that DO exist (but are less in magnitude to premeditated murder of innocents) . . .

And they overcompensate to HELP with this feeling of indictment that their conscience constantly gives them.

Or they mis-state others teachings grossly so they can demonize the very straw man that they created.

Chesterton warned of this phenomena long ago saying . . .

If there is one thing worse than the
modern weakening of major morals,
it is the modern strengthening of minor morals.
Thus it is considered
more withering to accuse a man of bad taste
than of bad ethics.

.

Dr. Scott Hahn calls this phenomenon “Majoring in the minors”.

.

.

This extreme internal discord eventually happens in all societies that define persons as anything less than persons.

This re-defining if people as less-than-persons, is not only a violation against God, but a violent attack against nature itself.

This rebellion against nature always causes blowback.

Just like when Nazis redefined Jewish persons as less than persons, or mentally handicapped people as less than persons.

This lead to WW II.

Or a sad chapter in our history re-defining many black persons as 3/5 of a person.
.
This eventually led to The Civil War.

We still see this denial of universal personhood of people now either implicitly or explicitly.denied!

Historically, this never ends well.
.

** Just a quick addendum. This concerns the GENERAL PICTURE. Not necessarily anyone in particular. Especially here (where I think the “liberals” tend to be amongst the BEST people.)

Never-the-less, these ATTITUDES influence others including ALL of us too.

So no indictment of anybody in particular HERE. (Just an explanation of a big part of what is going on today in our country and world.).

 

[Ridgerunner]

The whole issue is moot now because the government has been ordered to reunite all “parents” with the ones claim as “their children” within 30 days, regardless how long they have been separated. They can, of course, be reunited if they waive their asylum claim.

The actual “holding” period is 72 hours for minors. The government must, within that period, provide care for the minor that meets the requirements in a prior decision.

The Court, by the way, determined in 2015 that the Obama administration was “using detention” as a “deterrent” against illegal immigration; the very thing liberals are now saying the Trump administration is doing. But it was ok as long as Obama was doing it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not necessarily. Most asylum claims are determined to be without merit. It’s just one of the few ways you can get ahead of everybody else in the line.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well, I guess it’s just too bad for those that are legitimate claims then.

You’re right about that. The system is swamped by those who make illegitimate claims. And that’s tough for those with legitimate claims.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well, I guess the Trump plan of making everyone suffer is the way to go.

An awful thing to say. Aren’t you a college professor? I thought educators were supposed to exhibit some basic level of civilized behavior. But in today’s world, perhaps not.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If Trump didn’t want to make everyone suffer (and I really don’t think he personally did, but he surrounded himself with incompetent people

If you didn’t think it, why did you say it as if you did?

 

[livnlern]

Patrick Madrid

It’s an Episcopal Church. They also think same sex marriage is holy.

What is their suggestion for how to handle trespassers? I bet when people want to trespass on their church property they don’t do nothing about it. Someone should test that out.

‏
Verified account
Here is Relevant Radio’s Patrick Madrid’s take on this incident:
@patrickmadrid
Jul 3
More
The irony! This foolish stunt brought to you by a church whose founder, King Henry VIII, made a ruthless, bloody career out of separating families, decreeing hundreds of thousands of his faithful Catholic subjects to be illegal. And yes, he caged & killed them for being Catholic.

 

[pnewton]

Ridgerunner:

You’re right about that. The system is swamped by those who make illegitimate claims. And that’s tough for those with legitimate claims.

Well, I guess the Trump plan of making everyone suffer is the way to go.

Again, it is unfair to speak of “everyone”. The specific issue is still pretty narrow. While Trump must own up to his own involvement, or should, there is also no doubt that those who cross and lie, traffic children, or use them for protection must share some of the blame as well. They are the reason that steps must be taken to at least have a reasonable assurance that the children are with their parent.

 

[Cathoholic]

pnewton . . . .

. . . no doubt that those who cross and lie, traffic children, or use them for protection must share some of the blame as well. They are the reason that steps must be taken to at least have a reasonable assurance that the children are with their parent.

Good point here pnewton.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

I’m sorry but it is simply a scientific fact that Klinefelter syndrome is a male genetic disorder. Females do not get Klinefelter syndrome. You will find no source that says Klinefelter syndrome occurs in women. A man who has developed female secondary sex characteristics is still a man, however he chooses to live. God does not make people “both”, and acussing bishops of being unscientific because they state this by using an example in which you are misrepresenting genetic disorders as your proof is, at the very least, wrong.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

One’s genetics.

 

[JonNC]

proximate: (especially of a cause of something) closest in relationship; immediate.

And that would be the illegal crossing of the border by foreign nationals. That’s the proximate, immediate cause.

You apparently are no following the problems with family separation. Sad.

Actually, I am.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/jeff-sessions-family-separations-church-evangelicals-immigration-978168%3Famp=1

 

[Luke6_37]

One’s genetics.

A person with Klinefelter syndrome is genetically XXY, both female (XX) and male (XY). There is no objective standard you can use to assign a gender to that person, because God made sure that the presence of a Y chromosome is not enough to “make you male”. Therefore, I ask, “Who are you to decide what gender to assign to an intersex person?”

Watch this video of three young people. They all have XY chromosomes, but only one identifies as male. The young person on the far left wearing overalls is intact as God created her (I say “her” because that is clearly her gender identity) the other two have been surgically mutilated to fit into the demands of a binary society that believe “God created them male and female” so surgeons had better fix his mistake. All three feel as if they have been violated or made to feel like they are deficient freaks in some way.

I say they are beautiful healthy children created as God intended them to be. Doctors should not surgically alter healthy bodies just to appease a social norm, whether it is to transform the body of a person who is transgender or the body of a person who has Klinefelter or androgen insensitivity.

This is the video about an two intersex friends with Klinefelter. The woman with the glasses has an ovary and the other has a functional vagina. Are you going to insist they are male or say that by living as females they are violating the natural order of things? I believe that the Church needs to consider the clear evidence of science when interpreting scripture and tradition, whether it is the science of evolution or the science of genetics.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are other chromosomal abnormalities as well, but we don’t claim they’re just another variation of normal.