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Mickey
Guest
John1717 said:
Isn’t it interesting how old heresies continue to renew themselves!
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Isn’t it interesting how old heresies continue to renew themselves!
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MaggieOH
Guest
Once again, you are imposing 20th century standards on an ancient people. In that society, matchmakers were used to find suitable partners in marriage.
If Mary made a vow that she would keep herself only for the Lord, which is a vow of a very high order, and Joseph, being the one chosen to be her husband, heard of it, but he did not repudiate it, that is he did not tell her that she was not allowed to remain a virgin upon hearing about the vow, cannot later repudiate or annul the vow.
Why marry? Because it was the law of Judah that a young woman old enough to have children must be married. On the day that Mary was betrothed to Joseph she became his wife in all ways except that they were not living in the same house.
Now if Joseph, knowing of the sacred vow taken by his bride to be, also had made a vow to the Lord, then he would not want to repudiate that vow on her behalf, but would perhaps insist upon joining with her in that vow of chastity.
How much more willing would Joseph be when he hears that his wife is expecting the Messiah to remain in that chaste condition for the sake of raising the Son of God who had been given to both himself and to Mary.
Marriage in Jerusalem at that time is not like marriage today. We can break off an engagement but in that time it could not be done. You have to think outside of the twentieth century to understand the nature of the commitment of Mary and Joseph to each other as well as to God. They were fully committed to God in their every day lives. The same is not true for us. We live in the world of the flesh, and we like what comes of the flesh.
Maggie
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Mickey
Guest
Genesis 15:2
Abram said, “O lord God, what will You give me, since I am childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?”
Genesis 24:3
and I will make you swear by the lord, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you shall not take a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I live,
Genesis 24:7
" the lord, the God of heaven, who took me from my father’s house and from the land of my birth, and who spoke to me and who swore to me, saying, ’ To your descendants I will give this land,’ He will send His angel before you, and you will take a wife for my son from there.
Genesis 24:12
He said, " O lord, the God of my master Abraham, please grant me success today, and show lovingkindness to my master Abraham.
Genesis 24:27
He said, " Blessed be the lord, the God of my master Abraham, who has not forsaken His lovingkindness and His truth toward my master; as for me, the lord has guided me in the way to the house of my master’s brothers."
Genesis 24:42
"So I came today to the spring, and said, 'O lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now You will make my journey on which I go successful;
Genesis 24:48
"And I bowed low and worshiped the lord, and blessed the lord, the God of my master Abraham, who had guided me in the right way to take the daughter of my master’s kinsman for his son.
Genesis 26:24
the lord appeared to him the same night and said, " I am the God of your fathe****r Abraham; Do not fear, for I am with you. I will bless you, and multiply your descendants, For the sake of my servant Abraham."
Genesis 27:20
Isaac said to his son, “How is it that you have {it} so quickly, my son?” And he said, " Because the lord your God caused {it} to happen to me."
Genesis 28:21
and I return to my father’s house in safety, then the lord will be my God.
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Xavier
Guest
I give Mary honor.
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Mickey
Guest
Exodus 3:15
God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ’ the lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial-name to all generations.
Exodus 5:1
And afterward Moses and Aaron came and said to Pharaoh, " Thus says the lord, the God of Israel, ’ Let my people go that they may celebrate a feast to Me in the wilderness.’ "
Exodus 6:7
'then I will take you for my people, and I will be your God; and you shall know that I am the lord your God, who brought you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
Exodus 7:16
" You shall say to him, 'the lord, the God of the Hebrews, sent me to you, saying, " Let my people go, that they may serve Me in the wilderness. But behold, you have not listened until now."
Exodus 9:1
then the lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh and speak to him, 'Thus says the lord, the God of the Hebrews, " Let my people go, that they may serve Me.
Exodus 9:13
then the lord said to Moses, " Rise up early in the morning and stand before Pharaoh and say to him, 'Thus says the lord, the God of the Hebrews, " Let my people go, that they may serve Me.
Exodus 10:3
Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, "Thus says the lord, the God of the Hebrews, 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before Me? Let my people go, that they may serve Me.
Exodus 10:17
“Now therefore, please forgive my sin only this once, and make supplication to the lord your God, that He would only remove this death from me.”
Exodus 15:2
" the lord is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation; This is my God, and I will praise Him; my father’s God, and I will extol Him.
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Mickey
Guest
Leviticus 18:4
'You are to perform my judgments and keep my statutes, to live in accord with them; I am the lord your God.
Leviticus 18:30
‘Thus you are to keep my charge, that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so as not to defile yourselves with them; I am the lord your God.’ "
Leviticus 19:3
'Every one of you shall reverence his mother and his father, and you shall keep my sabbaths; I am the lord your God.
Leviticus 19:12
’ You shall not swear falsely by my name, so as to profane the name of your God; I am the lord.
Leviticus 25:55
'For the sons of Israel are my servants; they are my servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt. I am the lord your God.
Leviticus 26:44
'Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking my covenant with them; for I am the lord their God.
**Numbers **22:18
Balaam replied to the servants of Balak, " Though Balak were to give me his house full of silver and gold, I could not do anything, either small or great, contrary to the command of the lord my God.
Deuteronomy 4:5
"See, I have taught you statutes and judgments just as the lord my God commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it.
Deuteronomy 4:10
"{Remember} the day you stood before the lord your God at Horeb, when the lord said to me, ‘Assemble the people to Me, that I may let them hear my words so they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.’
Deuteronomy 9:4
" Do not say in your heart when the lord your God has driven them out before you, ‘Because of my righteousness the lord has brought me in to possess this land,’ but {it is} because of the wickedness of these nations {that} the lord is dispossessing them before you.
Deuteronomy 11:13
"It shall come about, if you listen obediently to my commandments which I am commanding you today, to love the lord your God and to serve Him with all your heart and all your soul,
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Mickey
Guest
Psalms 140:6
I said to the lord, "You are my God; Give ear, O lord, to the voice of my supplications.
Psalms 140:7
"O God the lord, the strength of my salvation, You have covered my head in the day of battle.
Psalms 141:8
For my eyes are toward You, O God, the lord; In You I take refuge; do not leave me defenseless.
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Xavier
Guest
Mickey said:
Mickey you missed my point. go back and read my post over
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Mickey
Guest
Matthew 4:7
Jesus said to him: It is written again: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matthew 4:10
Then Jesus saith to him: Begone, Satan: for it is written: The Lord thy God shalt thou adore, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 22:37
Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind.
**Mark **12:29
And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
**Mark **12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
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Mickey
Guest
Luke 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel: because he hath visited and wrought the redemption of his people.
Luke 4:8
And Jesus answering said to him. It is written: Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luke 4:12
And Jesus answering, said to him: It is said: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Luke 10:27
He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with all thy strength and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 20:37
Now that the dead rise again, Moses also shewed at the bush, when he called the Lord: The God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
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Mickey
Guest
Luke 1:43And whence is this to me that the mother of my lord should come to me?
Do you get it yet xavier? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_16.gif
Do you get it yet xavier? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_16.gif
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Xavier
Guest
Mickey said:
Well you got the copy and paste part down.
Next can you learn how delete?
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Mickey said:
I feel for you Mickey I have had to emphasise many a time what someone apparently chooses not to read.We definately need more emotion icon to express our feelings,because there is nothing sufficient here to express what we endure sometimes.God Bless
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Xavier
Guest
Lisa4Catholics said:
Adonia in Hebrew means lord it is used to mean Lord i all contexts. It is used to mean God and used to mean anyother lord.
As he pulls his hair out!!!
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Mickey
Guest
Since you like my copy and paste talents so much, I thought you’d like this one too. And please…don’t pull all your hair out over a nestorian heresy!!!
Protestants are quite prepared to say “Mary, Mother of Jesus,” but balk at saying “Mary, Mother of God.” Why?
There is probably an element of cultural conditioning here. Giving Mary such a title like Mother of God seems too grand to many protestants. For centuries most protestants have tried to ignore Mary, and have avoided all talk and discussion of her - except perhaps to condemn Catholic “excesses”. But this is a serious matter. To call Mary the “Mother of Jesus” and yet refuse to call her “Mother of God” is to diminish Jesus as well as Mary, for it is a denial that Jesus is truly or fully God.
It was this sort of thinking that led to the formal definition of the title Mother of God at the Council of Ephesus in 431AD. Patriarch Nestorius had preached that Mary was not Mother of God, being only the mother of Jesus’s physical body, which was then indwelt by God the Word. This was condemned as Heresy, since the Gospels tell us that the Word did not unite with man, but was made man. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.*" *(John 1.14). This is a crucial difference. Jesus was not two persons: the Son of God, and the Son of Mary, but one person, the Son of God and Mary. If this were not so, his death could not have saved us.
THE NATURE OF JESUS
- To be our Saviour, Jesus needed to be both fully God, and fully man, descended from Adam. He could not be a counterfeit, or someone who just looked human.
- God the Word has existed as spirit from the beginning of time.
- At the Incarnation, through the action of the Holy Spirit, God the Word took flesh and full humanity from the Virgin Mary. Both His Human Nature and His human body came from Mary, These united with His Divine Nature in Jesus.
- This produced one person with one consciousness, both fully God and fully man, who is truly both Son of God and Son of Mary.
- The Virgin Mary is therefore the Mother of ALL of the PERSON of Jesus Christ, and is therefore truly Mother of God the Son.
BUT DOESN’T CONCENTRATING ON THE VIRGIN MARY DISTRACT US FROM GOD AND FROM JESUS?
This is a common complaint of Protestants, but one I really fail to understand. Does admiring any part of God’s creation distract you from God? When you walk through a forest of tall, ancient trees and you admire their beauty, does it distract you from God? When you look at a sunset or a towering mountain, does that turn you away from God? Of course not. For most people such things draw them closer to God.
Similarly when you admire people like St Francis, Mother Theresa, or other Christians who have given up their lives to serve God. Does that make you turn away from God - or is it more likely to make you think of the greatness of the God who inspired such people? So it is also with Mary who is the Mother of God.
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TNT
Guest
Originally Posted by oudave
Hi Lisa
All you have to do is check out my posts. You may not agree with me, but I never run.
Lisa4Catholics:
**
BTW:
There are some questions laying on this thread which I posed to J1717. They are the nearly the same that I posed to you 3 wks ago. Here’s yur chance, again. Just cover for J1717.
Mary had no other children just as the OT Ark was never used for a common cedar chest.
NEXT:
You and I and all humanity have EXACTLY the same nature.
BUT your Mom is NOT my Mom.
Why? Because Moms are Moms of individual PERSONS.
Simple so far? Good.
If Mary was only the Mother of His Human nature then she was not a Mother “of My Lord” (a REAL PERSON). And Elizabeth and the HS that guided her in this proclamation were in error, as far as you are concerned.
Mary was the Mother of 1 PERSON. That PERSON is the GOD-MAN.
The Divine Nature was supplied by the HS
The Human Nature was SUPPLIED by Mary.
Together they made 1 PERSON. Of whom she was the Mother.
Analogous to this is your own creation.
She was without stain of Original sin. This you do not believe either. You believe that ALL are born in a heavenly condition, just as the first Adam.
For the True Church of Christ, Mary was conceived without the Stain of Original sin.
Therefore, if she had anothrr child, that child would be just as Jesus was, without stain of Original Sin. Therefore the reproduction of yet another perfect Adam before the fall. For, we pass on what we have. Neither can we pass on what we do not have.
If God required a special one-of-a-kind, unique, never-to-be-repeated ARK container in the OT. He did likewise in the NT. What is hidden in the Old is revealed in the New, in it’s final SUPERIOR fulfilment. It would never be used for common purpose, and there would be no reason to unless He wanted to profane the NT fulfilment.
Hi Lisa
All you have to do is check out my posts. You may not agree with me, but I never run.
Yea, sure, on the “Baptism” thread it took me 5 posts and 4 days to get you to tell us that you belonged to the **Benson St Church of Christ.I responded as soon as you wrote your post and you had already left,oh and hi Dave
**
BTW:
There are some questions laying on this thread which I posed to J1717. They are the nearly the same that I posed to you 3 wks ago. Here’s yur chance, again. Just cover for J1717.
Mary had no other children just as the OT Ark was never used for a common cedar chest.
NEXT:
You and I and all humanity have EXACTLY the same nature.
BUT your Mom is NOT my Mom.
Why? Because Moms are Moms of individual PERSONS.
Simple so far? Good.
If Mary was only the Mother of His Human nature then she was not a Mother “of My Lord” (a REAL PERSON). And Elizabeth and the HS that guided her in this proclamation were in error, as far as you are concerned.
Mary was the Mother of 1 PERSON. That PERSON is the GOD-MAN.
The Divine Nature was supplied by the HS
The Human Nature was SUPPLIED by Mary.
Together they made 1 PERSON. Of whom she was the Mother.
Analogous to this is your own creation.
- You have a genetic from your dad.
- You have a genetic from your Mom.
Is your Mom only the mother of what she SUPPLIED?
No.
She is the Mother of the RESULT…a PERSON.
NEXT:
God’s plan was to include Woman in the redemption process…Genesis, Luke, etc.
You agree with that.
Now, here is where yur problem comes in, admitted or not. Like all COC students, you are taught that God used a woman simply as a boxcar delivery system for Jesus to show up on time at Bethlehem. And, MAYBE to keep him whole until age whatever. Then off with her. Point blank, in this case, God is a User and Not a rewarder.
This is no different thinking than how many men treat women they meet at clubs. Use them for their personal agenda, and then dispose of them. NO abiding permanent connection or contribution. (Yes, women do the same. But stay on point.)
Unlike your mioptic humanist view, God’s plan for the Woman was to have a permanent intimate connection.
Witness: - Opens the fall of man with a woman.
- Promises a redemption thru a woman.
- Opens the NT with a woman. Lk.
- Installs the woman, as PROMISED, as the mediatrix for God’s entry into the Redemption Plan. HE arrives thru the Woman.
- Ends the NT with the woman. Rev. Remove the Chapter# 12 designation and you have a woman given you as the ARK.
- Like a faithful child and Master Planner, Christ has made His relationship PERMANENT with the Woman AFTER His resurrection. AND,
- THIS is what you do NOT believe. You believe it was completely discarded.
- God is not that way. His plan is TIME INTO Eternity.
- God came to us thru the promised Woman, and we come to Jesus by the same method He arrived. You enter into the ARK of the NT. This is the NT Church and like the OT Temple, within is the ARK and the Holy of Holies.
- That is part of the Bk of Rev. that you will not understand and therefore cannot accept…yet.
- .God’s salvation plan has not changed 1 iota since Genesis.
She was without stain of Original sin. This you do not believe either. You believe that ALL are born in a heavenly condition, just as the first Adam.
For the True Church of Christ, Mary was conceived without the Stain of Original sin.
Therefore, if she had anothrr child, that child would be just as Jesus was, without stain of Original Sin. Therefore the reproduction of yet another perfect Adam before the fall. For, we pass on what we have. Neither can we pass on what we do not have.
If God required a special one-of-a-kind, unique, never-to-be-repeated ARK container in the OT. He did likewise in the NT. What is hidden in the Old is revealed in the New, in it’s final SUPERIOR fulfilment. It would never be used for common purpose, and there would be no reason to unless He wanted to profane the NT fulfilment.
T
TNT
Guest
Before we go into your interpretaion of an unborn child being Elizabeth’s “ANY OTHER LORD” , which is bazaar in itself. BTW, Lk is Greek, never was Hebrew…You must present your Certificate of Authority of Interpretation that guarantess you are infallible in interpreting and are in fact superior to anyone who does not agree with you.
**May we have it ASAP?
Until then, you are no more than “any other lord”
**
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Church_Militant
Guest
Still hasn’t made the new lunch thread…NgNG?I responded as soon as you wrote your post and you had already left,oh and hi Dave
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oudave
Guest
Hi Xavier
Well put!
In Him, Dave.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
J
john_doran
Guest
Luke 1:43 :
43] And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord **[he meter tou kuriou mou] **should come to me?
1 Cor 8:4-6 :
4]Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
5] For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth – as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords” –
6] yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, *and one *Lord [kai heis kurios], Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
how is the context different?
also, could you explain why your interpretation of these alleged contextual differences is any better than mine. or anyone else’s on the board? i mean, since it doesn’t actually say anything explicitly in the text itself differentiating between divine and non-divine contextual uses of the word “kurious” …
thanks.
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