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TNT
Guest
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Nice, but you didn’t succeed with me. Sorry. Try another personal story that enlightens.Why are you yelling?
I can hear quite well.
But apparently hard-of-seeing the question.
John 1 - In the begining was the Word. Jesus was pre existant.
So Jesus is God yet not divine—you better check your own teachings.
Nice try. I did not say any such thing.
**When I refer to “JESUS” OR “CHRIST” it is ALWAYS as the GOD-MAN. “Born of the Virgin Mary”.
When I use either of the 2 words above (J C) I am NOT referring to the Trinitarian WORD ONLY, but the INCARNATE WORD, ie AT THE TIME “The Word was made flesh**” (Jn 1, 14)
Here is a more precise ascertion:
The GOD-MAN WITH 2 JOINED NATURES WHOM I IDENTIFY AS JESUS, DID NOT EXIST PRIOR TO THE INCARNATION.
THE DIVINE NATURE ALWAYS EXISTED. THE HUMAN NATURE WAS CREATED THROUGH MARY.
BUT the PERSON was eternally, now, and forever, GOD.
This is true before AND after He was “made flesh”.
He did not switch Persons, He joined His Person to the Full Human Nature. At that Moment I refer to that PERSON as JESUS.
Mary is the Mother of that GOD-MAN PERSON,** from the moment of conception… She is not the Mother of a NATURE, but of a PERSON, THE GOD-MAN JESUS INCARNATE.
One cannot “split” the PERSON.
The NATURE DOES NOT EXIST WITHOUT THE PERSON.
but prior to the incarnation, the person existed without the union of his human NATURE… **
I related my story to try to reach some personal level, you seem to be mocking me, is that your intent?Mary cannot be the Mother of a NATURE with no PERSON joined to it. And that is the consequence of your proposal, unless you hold to 2 PERSONS in Jesus., which I don’t see you doing.
Finally:
The point was If you cannot accept that Mary is the Mother of a Person, “because” the Person is God. …then how do you accept that the same PERSON as GOD could SUFFER and DIE? For, if “God DIED” then there was no GOD after GOD’S death. Yet, you accept that GOD lives even though Jesus (GOD) died.St Irenaeus: 175ad
“If one person suffered and another Person remained incapable of suffering; if one person was born and another Person came down upon him that was born and thereafter left him, not one person but two are proven . . . whereas the Apostle knew one only Who was born and Who suffered” (“Adv. Haer.”, III, xvi, n, 9, in P. G., VII, 928).
Tertullian :
“Was not God (as PERSON) really crucified? Did He not realiy die as He really was crucified?” (“De Carne Christi”, c. v, in P. L., II, 760).
Simply put, you believe a greater MYSTERY than the one you deny.