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mommyof4
Guest
Quite right! I think that we need to find ways to make a woman feel that an abortion is not her best/only option!
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Yes, let us stand here amidst the corpses of 40,000,000 children and debate which unworkable and counterproductive social program we will adopt next.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
It is a myth that only poor women have abortions, and then only because they cannot feed another child. Women who live in 5,000 square foot homes and drive BMWs also have abortions.
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estesbob
Guest
Having Republican Presidents 18 out of the last 26 years has put Roe V Wade on the brink of being overturend. Having a Republican congress and republcian state legistaltures has led to many restrictions on abortion-including parenaatl consent laws, wating periods, the requirment a woman be told about the cjilds stage of development, abstinence education and a law requiring that a child be born alive not be starved to death. As a direct result of this abortions have dropped from 1.5 million a year to 1,2 million a year since 1980.
If the Democrats takee control of the Senatee in 2006 and or the Presidency in 2008 abortoin will be enshrined the as the law of the land for at least another generation. Of course you have a lot of other baggage if you vote democrat-homosexual marriage, racial preferences, higer taxes, more ineffective entitlement programs, isolationism, paciffism-but we’ll leave that for another thread
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estesbob
Guest
It would be a great start.Prior to Roe V Wade there were about 400,000 abortions a year.
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estesbob
Guest
And for too long million of Catholics have boughtinto nonense as to way to rationalize puting their political preferences before their Faith-and millions abd millions of children have died as a result.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
“The smoke from the crematoria makes my eyes water, but I guess we have to put up with it to get the social programs Der Fuerer has promised.”
– Anonymous German Voter, 1943
– Anonymous German Voter, 1943
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estesbob
Guest
You are buying into the myth that Abortion is the result of poverry and/or social conditions. its not. It’s the result of a siociety that has lost its respect fgor lifer for any satge of life that inconveniences it-whether that be the very young, the very old or the disabled.
There is no corealation between poverty and abortion. The biggest predicator on the rate of abortion is its legality and acess. When abortion was illegal in most states there were 400,000 a year. After it was made legal it jumped to 1.5 million a year within 5 years. I
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vern_humphrey
Guest
It’s part and parcel of the Couch Catholic phenomenon.
A Couch Potato, as you know, is someone who lies on the couch and cheers for people playing a game on TV – instead of getting up and playing in a game himself.
A Couch Catholic is one who lies on the couch and cheers for the goverment to do what we should do ourselves.
There are many advantages to being a Couch Catholic:
- You don’t have to put money in the collection plate.
- You don’t actually have to work and give of yourself to the poor.
- You can feel really good about yourself, with someone else doing all the work. And
- When the program eventually proves counter-productive, you don’t have to take responsibility.
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maryj
Guest
On that basis, I’d prefer a candidate who has a chance of delivering the kind of social justice that will reduce the abortion rate as much as possible - and have a commitment to looking after the planet so it is fit for future generations.
Mike
And that will be precisely how the democratic party will go about wooing votes from the republican candidates this coming election. I can’t seem to find the article right now, but will look more later, James Carville is betting on the fact that his party will be able to win back conservative voters by having candidates in his party tell their constituents that" oh yes, I believe that abortions should be limited in this country" He wants them to sound pro-life, and yet they do not act or believe in Pro-life issues. that to me is a straight out and out deception of voters, who do not know to read between the lines. We do not get to be Catholic and Pro-choice and if you believe, that you can be, then you are not catholic. Sorta got off subject there for a moment, sorry, but if I see one more person in my catholic church wear a John Kerry button on their lapel to mass, I will ,this time, let them know the same. :tsktsk:
Mike
And that will be precisely how the democratic party will go about wooing votes from the republican candidates this coming election. I can’t seem to find the article right now, but will look more later, James Carville is betting on the fact that his party will be able to win back conservative voters by having candidates in his party tell their constituents that" oh yes, I believe that abortions should be limited in this country" He wants them to sound pro-life, and yet they do not act or believe in Pro-life issues. that to me is a straight out and out deception of voters, who do not know to read between the lines. We do not get to be Catholic and Pro-choice and if you believe, that you can be, then you are not catholic. Sorta got off subject there for a moment, sorry, but if I see one more person in my catholic church wear a John Kerry button on their lapel to mass, I will ,this time, let them know the same. :tsktsk:
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sirduckjr
Guest
If abortion is the only thing that matters politically, then do as Lincoln did when he formed the anti-slavery party. At that point, every conversation will start by overturning Roe vs.Wade, and then proceed from that point.
There are many Republicans that are not interested in allowing Roe vs.Wade getting overturned. Vern, did you catch who the administration favored this last week in the Rhode Island Senate race. Yes, thats right, a pro-choice Republican.(Just like they did in Penn. in 04 in not supporting Toomey.) They could have stayed neutral, or by god, maybe supported the more conservative candidate. No, they didnt. They were more concerned with maintaining their majority versus supporting the platform of their party.
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Peter_DiMitri
Guest
I’ve thought long and hard about this one, and I have really come to believe that Abortion is truly murder.
But I’ve also realized – to my horror – that large portions of our culture has successfully convinced itself that it’s okay, and has started calling it “reproductive freedom” in an attempt to bely what is actually happening.
Other cultures have committed sin and convinced themselves that it was acceptible – slave owners, the Nazis, Mayans who conducted human sacrifices… the list goes on. Our culture has convinced itself – at least on the surface – that Abortion is somehow not murder.
I’ve also come to realize that Bush and the Republicans are not as “Pro-Life” as they, or the radical Left, would have us believe. Even so, they are – as a rule – somewhat less “Pro-Choice” than Democrats, who frame “choice” as a sacred rite of femininity.
All that said, I’m not completely convinced that making Abortion illegal tomorrow can happen in the climate that’s been created. People are so convinced that Abortion is a “right” that they will vote out of office any party that truly illegalizes it and then reverse whatever Anti-Abortion laws exist.
Somehow, we have to convince the culture that it’s wrong if Abortion is going to go away. I’m not really sure how to do that.
For myself, I don’t know that I can vote for a candidate (like Kerry) that is defiantly Pro-Choice, despite calling himself a Catholic. Frankly, I don’t believe that religion holds any special place in his life. I don’t think I will ever be able to vote for an avowed Pro-Choice Candidate again in my life (I’ve done so before my Reversion to the Faith).
The problem with this, or course, is how do I participate in this Democracy feeling this way? I’m not a huge fan of the Republicans in some ways (although I think they are right on some issues), and I’m not sure that the Government being in the hand of one political party is healthy for our country.
I still haven’t worked it out.
But I’ve also realized – to my horror – that large portions of our culture has successfully convinced itself that it’s okay, and has started calling it “reproductive freedom” in an attempt to bely what is actually happening.
Other cultures have committed sin and convinced themselves that it was acceptible – slave owners, the Nazis, Mayans who conducted human sacrifices… the list goes on. Our culture has convinced itself – at least on the surface – that Abortion is somehow not murder.
I’ve also come to realize that Bush and the Republicans are not as “Pro-Life” as they, or the radical Left, would have us believe. Even so, they are – as a rule – somewhat less “Pro-Choice” than Democrats, who frame “choice” as a sacred rite of femininity.
All that said, I’m not completely convinced that making Abortion illegal tomorrow can happen in the climate that’s been created. People are so convinced that Abortion is a “right” that they will vote out of office any party that truly illegalizes it and then reverse whatever Anti-Abortion laws exist.
Somehow, we have to convince the culture that it’s wrong if Abortion is going to go away. I’m not really sure how to do that.
For myself, I don’t know that I can vote for a candidate (like Kerry) that is defiantly Pro-Choice, despite calling himself a Catholic. Frankly, I don’t believe that religion holds any special place in his life. I don’t think I will ever be able to vote for an avowed Pro-Choice Candidate again in my life (I’ve done so before my Reversion to the Faith).
The problem with this, or course, is how do I participate in this Democracy feeling this way? I’m not a huge fan of the Republicans in some ways (although I think they are right on some issues), and I’m not sure that the Government being in the hand of one political party is healthy for our country.
I still haven’t worked it out.
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mommyof4
Guest
I feel the same way. I dread the next election because in good conscience, I don’t feel like I can vote for any party.
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Peter_DiMitri
Guest
Yes, that’s it exactly.
I love my country, and I take Democracy and my responsibility to vote and participate very seriously.
But what do I do when I can’t figure out who I support?
I can’t vote for a Pro-Choice candidate.
But then again… what’s the point in voting for the other guy who calls himself “Pro-Life” but really isn’t?
I live in New York. Around here, it seems that almost everyone is Pro-Choice. Does that mean I don’t vote?
It’s causing me major concern.
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estesbob
Guest
I dont vote for canidates who support abortion or canidates from Political party’s that support abortion. In some races this means I dont vote but the alternative is to end up with blood on my hands.
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Julianna
Guest
Mike, you said it well. If you want a country run on religion…move to the middle east. It seems to be working so well over there…
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estesbob
Guest
To compare those working hard to end the abject evil of abortion to those who Muslim radicals who kill and maim in the name religion slimes not only thous of us who work hard to end abortion BUT all Catholics who adhere to the teachings of the Church. There is a clear delineation in this country between those candidates and those Party’s who support the killing of 1.2 million children a year and those who do not. Those who ignore these differences when they vote aid and abet these killings.Mike, you said it well. If you want a country run on religion…move to the middle east. It seems to be working so well over there…
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Julianna
Guest
The Muslim radicals who are killing and maiming in the name of their religion are following the teachings of their faith. They truly believe what they are doing is the “right” thing. They have believed that since Jesus said the Last Supper. If you remember your history, the Crusades did the same. Is is wrong…yes, to us, but not to them, yet they want to infuse this belief into their government and making laws for it’s citizens to abide by this or face consequences. What consequences should a woman face for having an illegal abortion in the United States of America? Should she be jailed for life (murder in this country carries the death penalty and life imprisonment), should she hang, should she face the firing squad, should she be banned from the country, or what about an old fashioned stoning? Also, it would depend on the state she lives in…some states would be life in prison, others would hand out sentences of 10 or more years with possibility for parole, or like Texas,…the “express lane” death penalty would come into play. Seems I remember what Jesus said about that one.
Then may I suggest to you, forget voting…because neither party is going to put that on the “front” burner. You seem to forget the little “separation between church and state”. I wonder why that is…maybe…because we have so many religions…none of which agree to everything…that America is like…“well we can’t just choose one…” and I for one believe that is a good thing.
I am a moderate politically. I would never “force feed” my faith onto anyone. If they ask whether or not I am pro-life…I will answer yes, and leave it at that. Perhaps instead of protesting abortion clinics, those of you are rabid about this issue, should take these women in…in maternity homes, and assist them in education, housing, should they decide to raise their babies, or consider adoption…“the other choice”. Millions of dollars that hard working parishoners put into Diocesean development funds are going to pay-outs for abuse. Perhaps it would be better spent on “life issues”.
It seems our president wants to return issues such as abortion, feeding the hungry, helping the homeless, back to the churches. Sounds like we agree on that. Although, I don’t think federal funding for religious organizations is a good idea. Nor do I think federal funding for abortions is right either. To the extreme left I would say…put up or shut up. No more federal funding for abortions.
Classes on NFP should begin in high school…sad to say, but teens are having sex. If a catholic teen doesn’t take birth control which is against her church teaching, then she should be schooled on NFP. Because “legally” she can get the pill without her parents permission. Condoms are sold to anyone who asks, or are given out for free. If her catechist/church gets to her first…and discusses NFP…the pill will be furthest from her mind. And maybe, just maybe, that influence will guide her in saving herself for marriage. And yes, get the boys on board as well. Don’t wait for pre-cana…by then it is too late.
Voting is a private issue. If you think it should be a public issue…then let the excommunications begin. Look around your church on Sunday…see the 1, 2, and 3 kid families. Wonder why that is?
Separation of church and state is a good thing, it’s the American way.
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estesbob
Guest
It is sad that you distill protecting life down to “force feeding your Faith”. I though our Faith came befoe our politics?
There is NO isssue more importasnt than life. If defending life makes me a religious extremist in your eyes so be it. If adhering to the teachings of my Chruch makes me an religious extremist thenso be it. If refuing to vote for those who support the slaughter of the innocents makes me a religous extremist I PROUDLY wear the lable.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
And that will be precisely how the democratic party will go about wooing votes from the republican candidates this coming election. I can’t seem to find the article right now, but will look more later, James Carville is betting on the fact that his party will be able to win back conservative voters by having candidates in his party tell their constituents that" oh yes, I believe that abortions should be limited in this country" He wants them to sound pro-life, and yet they do not act or believe in Pro-life issues. that to me is a straight out and out deception of voters, who do not know to read between the lines. We do not get to be Catholic and Pro-choice and if you believe, that you can be, then you are not catholic. Sorta got off subject there for a moment, sorry, but if I see one more person in my catholic church wear a John Kerry button on their lapel to mass, I will ,this time, let them know the same. :tsktsk:
A person who would believe what Carville said would believe a cell mate who told him he’d get better ventilation if he slept with his shorts on backwards.
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