Mormonism, Catholicism and Devoutness

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Formon said:
Mormons used to have a prophet named Boyd K. Packer. He said that only the church of the Lamb of God has the required saving ordinances of the gospel. The Book of Mormon says that there are only two churches. The church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil and if you’re not a member of the church of the Lamb of God then you belong to the church of the devil. He went on to say that these are hard truths for Mormons to admit but that we must be strong enough to proclaim them.

So, Catholics belong to the church of the devil. That’s pretty bold.
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References please…
 
I am fond of my Mormon acquaintances and enjoy their company. I also will share my faith and give a defense for it. However, I find that Mormons will fight you tooth and nail, and you will correct them with scripture where they are completely shut down and they respond with famous line, " If it is translated correctly." Mormons always fall on this line about Bible if it contradicts anything for them. Conversation over and it is a problem they have, not us. They need to reconcile and make sense of it. Praying for them is much more effective than trying to show them and dialogue. I’m not saying not to dialogue with them or evangelize but know when the conversation is over and move on. Christ told us to shake the dust from our feet and move on. We did our part.
 
Mormons fight you tooth and nail until they paint themselves into a corner and all they have left is their testimony.
 
I will offer another thought I have on Mormonism. There are many Mormons who do not really believe their doctrines but stay because of the social aspect and those benefits. Mormonism uses many many of the same words in Christianity but are completely distorted in their meaning. They make themselves appear Christian yet they are not. They will be held responsible before God for this and not only that but will be held responsible for all the ignorant Catholics they have led away from Christ’s Church with their distortions. Now there may be some Mormons who ignorant of the heresy they are apart of but there are also many, who know darn well their doctrines are false and continue to lead others from Christ’s Church. These types of things will not go unpunished.
 
adamhovey1988 said:
I can’t speak for Europe, but do you know what a “Jack Mormon” is? They are not exactly uncommon.
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That seems to be gazelam. He doesn’t seem to know much about Mormons, yet seems to have an axe to grind with the Catholics. Seems like a very unhappy fellow to me.
 
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gazelam said:
  • It persecutes, tortures, and slays the Saints of God (see 1Nephi 13:5).
  • It seeks wealth and luxury (see1Nephi13:7-8).
  • It is characterized by sexual immorality (see 1 Nephi 13:7).
  • It has excised plain and precious things from the scriptures (see 1 Nephi 3:26-29).
  • It has dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people (see 1 Nephi 4:11).
  • Its fate is to be consumed by a world war, when the nations it incites against the Saints war among themselves until the great and abominable church itself is destroyed (see 1 Nephi 22:13-
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It’s interesting that you post this list.
From my point of view…
  1. The LDS persecute their own gay members, often cruelly.
  2. The LDS have vast sums of money that they don’t even allow their own members to examine the books on how much and where it goes.
  3. To deny that there has been immorality amongst the LDS Bishops is completely hypocritical
  4. Each Christian faith claims the others do this. Many here can point out the LDS excising verses and twisting it’s meanings.
  5. Mormons are worldwide just as the Catholic Church is, it’s dominion is as widespread and authoritative with its members as Catholics are.
  6. No one knows what the fate of either church is.
These are just meaningless statements of the LDS justifying their existence. They aren’t actually holding up very well…

I just find it absurd when a faith group has to justify its existence by pointing fingers at other faiths to feel that they are relevant.
 
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Just read the lives of martyrs. Martyrs for Christ died gloriously with conviction for Christ. They accepted their deaths. Then go read how Joseph Smith died. Smith had zero faith. he died scared, shooting and fighting. Clearly the opposite of true martyrs. He was a false prophet and died the death he deserved for his heresy and blasphemy against almighty God.
 
Pattylt said:
I just find it absurd when a faith group has to justify its existence by pointing fingers at other faiths to feel that they are relevant.
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That is foundational to the Mormon church–the first vision where Joseph Smith saw and talked to God the Father and Jesus Christ, wherein he was told that all the churches were wrong, and their ministers were corrupt, and not to join any of them. But ask them to explain why Joseph later attempted to join the Methodist church. Anyway, God specifically told Joseph that our church is an abomination.
 
Formon said:
I take it you are not very familiar with Catholicism. To ask what scriptures I referred to says to me that you don’t know what the Catholic scriptures are.
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Formon said:
I take it you are not very familiar with Catholicism. To ask what scriptures I referred to says to me that you don’t know what the Catholic scriptures are.
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Formon said:
You’re making no sense. If you understand Catholicism then you wouldn’t ask which scriptures. You would already know. So I rest my case.
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Formon said:
That’s a very disingenuous question unless you’re just being a trouble maker who knows as little about Mormonism as you do Catholicism.
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One does not need encyclopaedic knowledge of the scripture to know what they believe. Shutting down a conversation with ‘if you were a real Catholic you would know what scriptures’ is akin to ‘if you don’t know what you did wrong I’m not going to tell you’. It is uncharitable to question a person’s faith because they ask to what scriptures you are referring. Also uncharitable is accusing someone of ‘making no sense’ and being a ‘troublemaker’.
Formon said:
That is a common myth. The Mormon church is the source of many many family breakups, divorces and so forth. Non Mormon families can’t see their relatives get married for instance. I had numerous, painful conversations with mostly women who were married to non Mormon husbands and their lives were hell. Mormons only care about families to the extent that their families are also Mormons.
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Well, it’s not a myth from my experience but I definitely acknowledge that nefarious things occur within the church and its leadership.
 
That’s because I don’t believe he wanted to know. He wanted to argue and I’ve been down that road enough times to already know the outcome. Just not interested.
 
Formon said:
It’s been many years since that talk and I don’t know where it is but this describes much of the same sentiment. He says that the church of the Lamb of God is the Mormon church.

The Church of the Lamb of God | Religious Studies Center
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I think it’s safe to say that the phrase “Church of the Devil” is used a couple of ways in The Church of Jesus Christ. One is in 1 Nephi 14:10 in which “Church of the Devil” refers to all evil forces arrayed against Christ, and the other is D&C 18:20 in which it refers to one of many church.
 
Pattylt said:
I just find it absurd when a faith group has to justify its existence by pointing fingers at other faiths to feel that they are relevant.
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Puh lease… The whole Council of Trent was a response to Protestantism.
 
gazelam said:
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Pattylt:
I just find it absurd when a faith group has to justify its existence by pointing fingers at other faiths to feel that they are relevant.
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Puh lease… The whole Council of Trent was a response to Protestantism.
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Did I mention Catholicism in that statement? Did I say they are excluded?
 
Pattylt said:
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gazelam:
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Pattylt:
I just find it absurd when a faith group has to justify its existence by pointing fingers at other faiths to feel that they are relevant.
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Puh lease… The whole Council of Trent was a response to Protestantism.
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Did I mention Catholicism in that statement? Did I say they are excluded?
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My apologies. I stand corrected!
 
A member once asked me if the Catholic church was the Lamb of God and I laughed it off. Then I was in a PPI with my stake president and asked him the same thing. He also laughed but added, “Of course not!” It’s not rocket science to conclude from that what everyone thinks but just won’t vocally admit…that Catholics belong to the church of the devil.
 
Formon said:
A member once asked me if the Catholic church was the Lamb of God and I laughed it off. Then I was in a PPI with my stake president and asked him the same thing. He also laughed but added, “Of course not!” It’s not rocket science to conclude from that what everyone thinks but just won’t vocally admit…that Catholics belong to the church of the devil.
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It’s odd that you use two examples of where the belief was denied to support your assertion, and for the record there is no formal LDS declaration stating such.

Joseph Smith defended the Catholic Church stating:

“[the] old Catholic Church is worth more than all [the other churches]—here is a princ[iple]. of logic–that men have no more sense–I will illustrate [with] an old apple tree—here jumps off a branch & says I am the true tree. & you are corrupt–if the whole tree is corrupt how can any true thing come out of it—the charr[character] of the old ones have always been sland[ere]d. by all apos[tates] since the world began—

and…

“I testify again as God never will acknowledge any apost[ate]: any man who will betray the Catholics will betray you–& if he will betray one anoth[e]r. he will betray you”

John Taylor said:

“There were men in those dark ages who could commune with God, and who, by the power of faith, could draw aside the curtain of eternity and gaze upon the face of God, have the ministering of angels, and unfold the future destinies of the world. If those were dark ages, I pray God to give me a little darkness.”

No much assertion that the CC is Lucifer’s church in these early quotes.
 
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gazelam said:
[the] old Catholic Church is worth more than all [the other churches]—here is a princ[iple].
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So even Joseph Smith said that the Catholic Church is worth more than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Interesting.
 
Excuse me, but you are the one who brought up the Franciscan and Bendedict orders. The list of those orders who take devout vows are numerous which includes woman or Nuns. When you mention the Diocese Priest taking vows, you do a great service of confirming the devoutness of the Catholic faith across the board. But thank you for confirming the Catholic faith devoutness in her simplicity supersedes the Mormon faith.
We haven’t even mentioned the Diaconate. May be would could get down to the laity ministries but I don’t think we have enough space here do indulge you. I am sorry you may have missed my point of across the board to include all ministries including female religious orders, maybe I should point out to you that this does not include the laity ministries. But your point is well taken to begin the break down of the Catholic ministers who take Vows.
So when are you going to answer the OP’s question. Are Mormons devoutness supersedes the Catholic saints and martyrs to include all the religious orders and to help you understand so that you do not misquote me, I will be more clearly here for you, except the Laity ministries.
 
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