Muslim fury grows at Pope's speech

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One interesting facet of all this is that none of the people participating in the uproar, Muslim or otherwise, have attempted to answer the centuries-old question cited by the Holy Father:
MrS said:
***“The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war,” the Pope said. ***
"He said, I quote, ‘Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached’."
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So, just what did Mohammed bring that was new and not evil or inhuman? Certainly, if those things could be listed, that would be an effective response from those who took offense to the speech.

Did not our Blessed Lord say, “By their fruits you will know them.”?
 
I think the Pope has shown his true roots which are that of an extremely erudite intellectual. His lecture was well written, thoroughly researched and presented a very real philosophical question which has not been completely resolved - that is, the absolute nature of God.

The criticism of his lecture by Islamics points to the loss of objective intellectual life in the modern Islamic community. The great accomplishments of the 7th century Abbasid dynasty have been all but forgotten - mathematics and Al-Khawarizmi, the “father” of algebra, astronomy, and literature. The great “Golden Age” of Islam is long past.

The Islamic fury is founded in their recognition of the Pope’s moral and intellectual superiority over those who have exchanged the pursuit of truth for unabashed violence.

It also exposes radical Islam for what it really is.
 
All of your insights are interesting on here. I wonder if the pope will still be visiting Turkey? If so…do you think he might find himself in danger? I pray for him, but although I have read a few of his books…he has not captivated me with his speech and message, as Pope JP2 did…I am not judging this pope, but he should be preaching a message of unity…not badmouthing another religion. We as faithful Catholics should be hearing a message of hope, not that his message wasn’t hopeful, but it also seemed to sway to condemning another faith. I ask this question sincerely…of you all here…is it right to condemn another faith, or should we just witness our loving ways and emulate Christ, in order to bring people to Christ? I have a difficult time pointing the finger at someone who is not Christian and saying…‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’ Know what I mean? Can someone help me better understand that??
 
OriginalJS said:
I have known only five popes, Pius XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II and now Benedict XVI. I don’t recall any being hated by the world. JPII was loved by the world.
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Yeah, sure. That’s why he was almost killed.
Stirring up hatred is not going to be productive of much positive.
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Except, of course, the bringing down of the Soviet Union! (Where have you been for the last century?)
I think Benedict XVI’s remarks were simply ill chosen and that the Vatican will be able to pour some oil on troubled waters here.
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What arrogance! What presumption! This pope above all is the great teacher. Both his knowledge of theology and his ability to explain complex ideas in terms ordinary people can understand is recognized throughout the world.

Yes, by all means let’s have some oil (no pun intended), on the “troubled waters,” and while we’re at it, explain to all the peoples throughout the world who have been attacked by these jihadists that they must not indulge in “ill chosen” words.

ARGH!

Anna
 
Servulus said:
I think we should keep in mind that “scrambling” (with its air of panic and connotation of poor organization and/or preparedness) is one of those terms the media folks use to describe the actions of those of whom they don’t approve. If they like you they would say, for example, that you were “quick to defend. . .”
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Can it be true that the media would use such a term to suggest they do not approve of the Pope? And what a hooplah they are having! I’m starting to work up a fury and its growing - maybe the media better pay attention to me! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_217v.gif

[smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZN](WallpapersbyMyWay)
 
I was just wondering if people here had read all of the Pope’s speech. because it seems to me that anyone reading the posts here would think the entire speech was an attack on Islam. When in fact it goes beyond that and talks about Faith and Reason.

“The intention here is not one of retrenchment or negative criticism, but of broadening our concept of reason and its application. While we rejoice in the new possibilities open to humanity, we also see the dangers arising from these possibilities and we must ask ourselves how we can overcome them. We will succeed in doing so only if reason and faith come together in a new way, if we overcome the self-imposed limitation of reason to the empirically verifiable, and if we once more disclose its vast horizons.”

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

It seems to me from reading it, that the quote was more of a spring board for his speech. For the record I don’t think he should apologise, rather those who call for him to apologies and call on others to protest should first read all of the speech and not just depend on Media sound bites.
 
Radical Muslims were waiting for their excuse to attack the Catholic Church.

You can almost bet, there will be terrorist attacks in the Vatican or at other Catholic places of worship.

Although the Pope spoke the truth concerning Islam, I think this was not the time to fan the flames of hostility, knowing how upsetting this would be to Muslims.

John Paul II The Great, would not have used more wisdom than Pope Benedict.
 
grotto said:
Can it be true that the media would use such a term to suggest they do not approve of the Pope? And what a hooplah they are having! I’m starting to work up a fury and its growing - maybe the media better pay attention to me! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_217v.gif

[smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZN](WallpapersbyMyWay)
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“Not approve of the Pope” , they are just waiting for just an occassion. Since when is the modern press sympathetic to the Catholic side of things. They are just looking for someone to stumble and fall so that they can show weakenesses.
 
from his address :Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he [the Byzantine emperor] says, “is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”. I am awaiting the reasoned response. Has an Imam made one yet?

The Pope continues:
The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God’s nature. The editor [of the text where this debate appears], Theodore Khoury, observes: For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality. Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God’s will, we would even have to practise idolatry.You cannot justify terrorism by saying it is God’s will.

On the best-seller list in “moderate” Turkey … Via AllahPundit and Gerald Augustinus:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/killbenedict.jpg
It’s a novel titled Papa’ya suikast (”Attack on the Pope”) which predicts that Pope Benedict will be assassinated in Istanbul.
 
whatevergirl said:
All of your insights are interesting on here. I wonder if the pope will still be visiting Turkey? If so…do you think he might find himself in danger? I pray for him, but although I have read a few of his books…he has not captivated me with his speech and message, as Pope JP2 did…I am not judging this pope, but he should be preaching a message of unity…not badmouthing another religion. We as faithful Catholics should be hearing a message of hope, not that his message wasn’t hopeful, but it also seemed to sway to condemning another faith. I ask this question sincerely…of you all here…is it right to condemn another faith, or should we just witness our loving ways and emulate Christ, in order to bring people to Christ? I have a difficult time pointing the finger at someone who is not Christian and saying…‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’ Know what I mean? Can someone help me better understand that??
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He condemned another faith?

What are you reading? Obviously not Holy Fathers words.
Badmouthing? Cite examples please.
‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’

Who said that? Cite examples here as well.

You have indicted Holy Father and spoken false witness.
:mad:
 
whatevergirl said:
. . . I ask this question sincerely…of you all here…is it right to condemn another faith, or should we just witness our loving ways and emulate Christ, in order to bring people to Christ? I have a difficult time pointing the finger at someone who is not Christian and saying…‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’
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Part of the challenge (perhaps the largest) is focusing on the concept or belief system rather than on the person. To say, “This theology is in error because it omits the following truths (or adds the following as truths when they are not). . .” is different from saying, “You are wrong and you’re going to hell.” (The second part of that is completely out of line anyway, since it requires knowledge none of us has.)

I think His Holiness was taking the former approach. Note also that he did not discredit those beliefs which Islam shares with Christianity. His reference was only to things added by Mohammed.

With regard to living our witness, the Church has always encouraged us to emulate the love of Christ in dealing with others. An example is the speed with which Catholics and other Christians worldwide respond with works of mercy in the wake of disasters without regard for the beliefs of the afflicted. But part of our witness is calling the truth the truth and calling untruth untruth.

Hope that helps.
 
I have wondered: with the decrease of population in many christian countries (we know the reasons) and the increase of muslims who don’t practice birth control and abortion if this would bring about a true persecution of catholic christians as was seen in the years immediately following our Lords death and resurrection. We may have the chance to join the saints that gave their lives to defend the faith.
What ever the outcome of this we must all pray for our Holy Father, he must be in anguish that his words are being used against him and the church.
God bless,
maggiec
 
maggiec said:
I have wondered: with the decrease of population in many christian countries (we know the reasons) and the increase of muslims who don’t practice birth control and abortion if this would bring about a true persecution of catholic christians as was seen in the years immediately following our Lords death and resurrection. We may have the chance to join the saints that gave their lives to defend the faith.
What ever the outcome of this we must all pray for our Holy Father, he must be in anguish that his words are being used against him and the church.
God bless,
maggiec
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God Bless you. Your post reminds me why they allow for a man to have up to 4 wives if they can support them (food - clothes)
 
Its incredible how quickly that Pope Benedict and the late Emperor Manuel were found to be absolutely on target about islamic violence with the events subsequent to the pope’s speech this week.

The ink on the paper is barely dry and radical islamists are burning and killing worldwide.
 
something about this whole situation smells fishy. not once in the speech did he directly accuse islam of violence. the worst that he said was his quoute of the byzantium emperor, but right after that he stressed those were not his own words. so then why are so many muslims thinking those were his words? how is this news being reported in muslim areas vs ours? what is the text of what they are hearing and reading regrading what the holy father said? is it possible those who seek war in Iran perhaps might have twisted the popes words to make muslims angy, hence justifying a “war of civilizations” which includes a nuclear attack on Iran? I believe that is a very justified question considering that during the mohammad cartoon episode that the owner of the danish newspaper was himself connected to several prominent neo-conservative groups in the US and pressured his editors to print those cartoons as a way of forcing a division between muslims and the rest of the world
 
The Pope did not insult Islam. Islamists, like the bullies they are, decided to take it that way in order to humiliate the Pope and denigrate Christianity, which they do all the time anyway.

So now Islamic clerics have handed out $1.00 bills to the unemployed in their backward economies, to go on these rampages, hoping to humiliate and oppress the Pope and all of Christianity.

I hope no one in the Vatican apologizes. I, for one, do not care at all what Islamists think of us, because they will hate us no matter what we do or say. Let them burn every piece of cloth and papier mache in the Islamic world for all I care. Maybe, just maybe, if they burn enough cars and effigies, Europeans will see that admitting Turkey into the EU would be the biggest mistake they could ever make, and that there is no purpose to be gained in coddling those whose heartfelt desire is to destroy them.
 
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