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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I meant to say;
John Paul II The Great, “would have” used more wisdom than Pope Benedict.
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John Paul II The Great, “would have” used more wisdom than Pope Benedict.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Actually, Pope Benedict is known for writing his own speeches and apparently this is one of them. There is word going around that from here on end, his speeches will be reviewed before they’re given.
Keep in mind that the Pope’s words as well as all Catholic leaders, if not carefully used, can cause great harm to Catholics.
Pope Pius XII, knew very well what happens when Catholic leaders aren’t careful with their words. The invasion of the convents and monasteires of Holland are an example.
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Sailboat
Guest
So, the Muslims are a bunch of violent thugs. They just proved it, once again. Just like that cartoon fury, they hear a few words they don’t like and go on a rampage. I’m sick of them.
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bones_IV
Guest
Straw man argument.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. The majority are peaceful. A minority of 10% if it’s that large, are radical and violent. That shouldn’t be used as a base to judge the majority.
Should all Catholic priest be feared, because a minority commited acts of sexual misconduct?
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gnjsdad
Guest
All interesting and relevant qustions. But so far I’ve seen no evidence of an orchestrated campaign to rile Muslims for the purposes you mention. But I will keep an eye out.
Although I do believe the Muslim reaction is hysterical (thereby proving the point the Pope was making about reason being an essential component of faith) and completely lacking in charity, I do wish our side paid as much attention to the Pope as the Muslims do.
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Gilbert_Keith
Guest
It will be interesting to see how many so-called peace-loving Muslim clerics will preach calm and forgiveness to their fellow Muslims for any perceived offense in the Pope’s remarks.
Count them on one hand?
Count them on one hand?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Let’s see that 90% majority then, instead of burning, attacking, and screaming rage and ‘death to infidels’, acting like rational, ‘peaceful’ beings.
You speak of the priest scandal. Let’s see, did the 98% of priests not involved in the scandal start screaming, burning, and attacking? Did they insist on the media and any speakers who commented on the scandal “APOLOGISING”? And, of course, you DO recognize that those priests involved were actually going AGAINST the church teaching.
What we have HERE is a Pope reading an EXERPT from a 700 year old document, not as a main frame, not as the only words, whose ‘quote’ is TRUNCATED by the press, and whose entire speech which called for reason, is being ignored by some triggerhappy fanatics who cannot bear to be ‘insulted’. Well, guess what? Followers of Muhammad DID endorse then, and have endorsed since their inception, and apparently according to at least some spokespeople now DO endorse, conversion by the sword. That’s a fact. If there is any need for apology here, it is for those fanatics to apologize to Benedict, to Christians, and the entire rest of the world, for ‘taking offense’ at historical fact and attempting to twist it into yet another ‘oh, we peaceful Muslims are AGAIN being attacked by these AWFUL Christians’.
You speak of the priest scandal. Let’s see, did the 98% of priests not involved in the scandal start screaming, burning, and attacking? Did they insist on the media and any speakers who commented on the scandal “APOLOGISING”? And, of course, you DO recognize that those priests involved were actually going AGAINST the church teaching.
What we have HERE is a Pope reading an EXERPT from a 700 year old document, not as a main frame, not as the only words, whose ‘quote’ is TRUNCATED by the press, and whose entire speech which called for reason, is being ignored by some triggerhappy fanatics who cannot bear to be ‘insulted’. Well, guess what? Followers of Muhammad DID endorse then, and have endorsed since their inception, and apparently according to at least some spokespeople now DO endorse, conversion by the sword. That’s a fact. If there is any need for apology here, it is for those fanatics to apologize to Benedict, to Christians, and the entire rest of the world, for ‘taking offense’ at historical fact and attempting to twist it into yet another ‘oh, we peaceful Muslims are AGAIN being attacked by these AWFUL Christians’.
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james1441
Guest
there is another possibility that is going on. going back to the cartoon incident, what many people dont realize is that despite what we heard, the whole muslim world wasnt rioting in the streets. one thing the media can do in this day and age is make things seem way out of proportion. since we are not at the scene ourselves, if we see protestors at, say 6 rallies at different places across the middle east, it may give the impression that each city in that region has protests, yet maybe the only protests we see are the ones televised. one person remarked after the cartoon debacle that the amount of protestors vs the actual worldwide muslim population was something like less than 0.001%
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Damascus
Guest
Some muslims only have one hand. They can loose the right to their hand if they steal. Gets cutt right off.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
msnbc.msn.com/id/14848884/
Here is the entire text of the Holy Father’s lecture. If anyone can find anything inflamatory in this lecture, please show me how. I believe that the Muslim response to this perceived “slight” speaks volumes.
Here is the entire text of the Holy Father’s lecture. If anyone can find anything inflamatory in this lecture, please show me how. I believe that the Muslim response to this perceived “slight” speaks volumes.
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james1441
Guest
it seems to me my best guess at this point is that, however muslims are getting the news of what he said, it seems someone misquoted or forgot to mention the part about the holy fathers quote of the emperor only being a quote and nothing more. they must have either thought he was in complete agreement with it or that those words were coming directly from the pope
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magician
Guest
The Pope is a worried man, and rightfully so. The clash of civilizations is on the brink of eruption.
telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/16/wpope116.xml
He bears no malice, but he is a worried man
By Damian Thompson
(Filed: 16/09/2006)
It is ironic that Benedict XVI finds himself accused of crude anti-Islamic prejudice after quoting a medieval emperor’s opinion that Mohammed’s violent teachings were “evil and inhuman”.
Pope Benedict XVI: A multi-faith society ‘is not consistent with Islam’s inner nature’
For no pope in history has made a deeper study of Islam. Having explored every verse of the Koran, and engaged in long debates with Muslim scholars, he rejects the simplistic notion — held by fundamentalist Christians, and by the Roman Catholic Church until the middle of the 20th century — that Islam is evil. Yet he is convinced that some of its doctrines are morally indefensible.
telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/16/wpope116.xml
He bears no malice, but he is a worried man
By Damian Thompson
(Filed: 16/09/2006)
It is ironic that Benedict XVI finds himself accused of crude anti-Islamic prejudice after quoting a medieval emperor’s opinion that Mohammed’s violent teachings were “evil and inhuman”.
Pope Benedict XVI: A multi-faith society ‘is not consistent with Islam’s inner nature’
For no pope in history has made a deeper study of Islam. Having explored every verse of the Koran, and engaged in long debates with Muslim scholars, he rejects the simplistic notion — held by fundamentalist Christians, and by the Roman Catholic Church until the middle of the 20th century — that Islam is evil. Yet he is convinced that some of its doctrines are morally indefensible.
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Sailboat
Guest
So, the Holy Father apologized. He’s the bigger man. But, here’s one middle of the road guy who now firmly believes that Islam and Muslims are our enemies. I used to have sympathy for them, like the Palastinians. But, now I think they are a bunch of thugs. 
I have no tolerance anymore for these violent mobs. We should fight them whereever we can. They are a menance to us. And, we shouldn’t be letting any of them in our country!
I have no tolerance anymore for these violent mobs. We should fight them whereever we can. They are a menance to us. And, we shouldn’t be letting any of them in our country!
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gilliam
Guest
The MSM made it clear he was simply quoting someone else. The people who are outraged are getting their news from their Imams. Attached is a picture of the Pope that is circulating in Qaeda-friendly chat rooms and websites. Lovely (and predictable) that they call for his beheading. (warning graphic image)
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
He’s apologised
Not if they are Islamofascists.
Muslims vent fury at Pope’s speechAs Muslims all over the world protested, with effigies of Benedict XVI burnt during demonstrations in Pakistan, members of the Turkish Government urged the Pope to reconsider his visit in November. Senior officials in Turkey said that they could not guarantee his safety if he went ahead with the trip.
The Pope’s remarks were either “the result of pitiful ignorance” about Islam or a deliberate distortion of the truth, said Salih Kapusuz, deputy leader of the strongly Islamic party led by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Prime Minister.
“He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages,” Mr Kapusuz added. “Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini.”
The outrage followed a speech that the Pope gave on Tuesday during a tour of southern Germany. At the University of Regensburg, Benedict XVI quoted remarks by the 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus, who wrote that everything that Muhammad had promulgated was evil and inhuman, “such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”.
…The Muslim Council, which represents 400 groups in Britain, said that the emperor’s views were ill-informed and bigoted…
So ill-informed, that Constantinople was taken within six years of his death - he was the penultimate Byzantine Emperor. The city had been under Muslim pressure for a century - he knew what he was talking about. And so does the Pope (whose remarks are far from impolite - far too polite, perhaps)
What the Pope said: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,3-2360088,00.html [edited BTW - more links at end]So: the Pope is not to say anything that suggests that Islam is violent; but it’s quite all right to compare the Pope to Hitler. Insults from Muslims, are fine, by Muslim standards, or so it seems. The only Nazi-like folk here are the Islamofascists - no Catholics went around recently threatening people’s lives, burning embassies & churches, and threatening to terrorise their neighbours who had done nothing whatever to harm them. Muslims did. And it is recent times that matter. If Muslims were now peaceful, they would not be criticised for their acts in the present.
Every time they burn an effigy, Muslims merely confirm the justice of the criticisms made against Islam. If they behave violently - how can people think their religion is peaceful ? ##
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tom.wineman
Guest
These radical Moslem clerics that are stirring up the Moslem populations simply do not want the Pope visiting their countries. They do not want their people to see what a really holy man looks like. To prove how holy and peaceful Islam is these same clerics will incite riots to burn Christian churches and even kill a few Christians.
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james1441
Guest
Why doesn’t she provide a link to any of the websites that have this picture posted? How do we know someone didnt just make that up last minute and sent it to her claiming it was from a terrorist website?
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DWPC
Guest
“Peaceful” is a condition, not a moral value. We should not mistake reluctance to openly express hate and bigotry with rejection of those feelings. Read the Koran…Islam relies upon fear and intimidation to motivate “faith”.
As belligerant Islamic nations like Iran become able to obtain nuclear weapons, it’s time the West take off the PC blinders and recognize Islam’s tenets for what they say and are. Benedict is the first Western leader with the courage to challange muslims to put up or shut up about their “religion of peace”.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
The cartoon controversy was bad enough but this situation is downright assinine. You would think that the Holy Father made some thundering condemnation of Islam yet, all I can find in his lecture is a plea for reasoned dialogue with Islam.
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