National Sunday Law

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[continued from above]

Acts 5
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4 “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. 6 The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” 9 Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.” 10 And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard of these things.

“So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.”
Acts 6
So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables. 3 “Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. 4 “But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. 6 And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them.
Acts 8 [Philip here. Interesting that one of the Apostles had to interpret Holy Scripture for this man]
Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him
Acts 9
Now as Peter was traveling through all those regions, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda. 33 There he found a man named Aeneas, who had been bedridden eight years, for he was paralyzed. 34 Peter said to him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; get up and make your bed.” Immediately he got up. 35 And all who lived at Lydda and Sharon saw him, and they turned to the Lord.
36 Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which translated in Greek is called Dorcas); this woman was abounding with deeds of kindness and charity which she continually did. 37 And it happened at that time that she fell sick and died; and when they had washed her body, they laid it in an upper room. 38 Since Lydda was near Joppa, the disciples, having heard that Peter was there, sent two men to him, imploring him, “Do not delay in coming to us.” 39 So Peter arose and went with them. When he arrived, they brought him into the upper room; and all the widows stood beside him, weeping and showing all the tunics and garments that Dorcas used to make while she was with them. 40 But Peter sent them all out and knelt down and prayed, and turning to the body, he said, “Tabitha, arise.” And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter, she sat up. 41 And he gave her his hand and raised her up; and calling the saints and widows, he presented her alive. 42 It became known all over Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.
Miracles in the early Church were not simply regarded as Mercy, though they are that. They were regarded as signs of Spritual healing. Peter is recorded here with the authority and power of God, not because he is in and of himself anything, but because of the work that the Lord was establishing in him.
With regards to the “church”, I think my comment was taken out of context. I didn’t mean to suggest there’d be no building, place to fellowship or anything like that. My point is that we’re all a collective body of Christ with elders (“bishops”) as the local leadership…this is how churches were initially established during Paul’s (et al) missionary trips.
Ah, I see your point now. Yes, the Church agrees that there is such a thing as the Mystical Body of Christ, which includes those saved by the waters of Baptism, as I recall.
"Church is not an institutionalized establishment as many are taught to believe but is the collective body of Christ put here to build each other’s faith and spread the Gospel “to all nations”.
^^This is the quote where my misunderstanding of what you were stating originated.
There’s nothing in Scripture pertaining to leadership above that, specifically not of the deification of a man or system…only God in heaven through Christ. Anything else is man-made and hence, a tradition of men.
Hmm, St. Paul himself talks about the oral tradition. Things outside of Holy Scripture which were to become the Holy Traditions of God: 1Cor.11:1, 1 Thess. 2:13, 2Thess.2:15, 2Tim.2:2.
St. Paul mentions tradition several times in his epistles, reminding both Timothy and the Thessalonians to stand fast to the traditions he taught them.
Galatians 2:9-10: In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews. Their only suggestion was that we keep on helping the poor, which I have always been eager to do.
In Old Testament times, the word was first for the Jews as Christ was to come through their lineage. In reading the Scriptures above, in context with Jesus’ point to Peter about building His church up him (the “rock”), the same concept applies…the message was first for the Jews and then the Gentiles (you and me).
Well, evidence of removing the rock of the papacy is all around us.
God bless you and our search and understanding of truth, my brother.
The Lord bless you too! Always nice to have a stimulating conversation…even over the net, lol.
 
The point of this thread is that Adventists believe that there will be a law passed, required all to honor Sunday as the sabbath, and those refusing, including Adventists, will be persecuted. Adventists believe that this ‘test’ will be a test of loyalty that will determine their salvation, at least at the time of the Sunday law.
Ahem…apparently I’ve strayed off into left field with my posts, lol. Sorry about that folks.
 
Associating yourself with God would indicate a call for worship. I have other quotes that aren’t with me right now that specifically called for papal worship, but these should be enough for starters:

“Lord God the Pope.” Title found within a gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4, Declaramus. (In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, “Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam” (“Our Lord God the Pope”) can be found in column 153. In a Paris edition, they are found in column 140).
You know what a gloss is, don’t you? It is something that was not in the original document, but was added later by someone else. The title “Lord God the Pope” was a gloss, so by definition, it was not part of the official document.

BibleTruth said:
“(The Roman Pontiff is) the vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but a very God…” Decretales Domini Gregorii Translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205, while Innocent III was Pope.

“[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." Pope Leo XIII, The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII, p. 304, Benziger Brothers (1903).

“The Roman Pontiff judges all men, but is judged by no one. We declare, assert, define and pronounce: to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature necessary for salvation that which was spoken of Christ ‘thou has subdued all things under his feet’ may well seem verified in me…I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all and above all, so that God himself and I, the vicar of God, have but one consistory, and I am able to do all that God can do.” The Bull Unam Sanctam, Issued by Pope Boniface VIII.

"34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
  • John 10:34-36
“Gods” in this sense means judges (see Deut 1:17, Ex 21:6 and Psalms 82:6). The Pope is successor to the office of Peter who was given the authority to “bind and loose” - the power to judge in the Kingdom of God on earth. That does not say that the pope is to be worshiped, but rather that his judgment is to be followed.

BibleTruth said:
“The doctrines of the Catholic Church are entirely independent of Holy Scripture.” Familiar Explanation of Catholic Doctrine, Rev. M. Mullers, p.151.

“If we must choose between the Holy Scriptures of God, and the old errors of the church, we should reject the former.” Johann Faber (defender of the Papacy) cited in History of The Reformation, by J. H. Merle d’Aubigne, book 11, Ch. 5, Par. 9.

“Like two sacred rivers flowing from paradise, the Bible and divine tradition contain the word of God, the precious gems of revealed truths. Though these two divine streams are in themselves, on account of their divine origin, of equal sacredness, and are both full of revealed truths, still of the two, tradition is to us more clear and safe.” Catholic Belief, Joseph Faa di Bruno, p. 45.

I asked you for official Catholic documents. These are nothing of the kind, but are opinions of people who have no authority to speak for the Church.

That being said, what these quotes express is essentially true. The doctrines of the Catholic Church were handed down from the apostles, long before the New Testament was compiled in the 4th century. The doctrines of the Church are verified and taught in scripture, but the original source of our doctrines is the apostles themselves. If all the bibles in the world ceased to exist, the teachings of the Catholic Church could continue as always, because we don’t derive our doctrines from someone’s interpretation of the bible as you do. Our teachings are the teachings of the apostles which were handed down to to the Church through their successors, the bishops.

The Church, not the bible, “is the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15). The bible is derived from the Church, not the other way around.
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BibleTruth:
Jesus saw this outright blasphemy coming:

Mark 7:6-13 (NLT): Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’ For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”
This was not a prophecy and it has nothing to do with the value of sacred tradition. It was a rebuke of the Pharisees who perverted sacred tradition (the Law of Moses). I could just as easily quote:

“And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us.” - 2 Thess 3:6

That’s the problem with people trying to create their own churches based on their personal interpretation of the bible - you can quote the bible out of context to justify any belief you desire, from Henry VIII to Charles Manson. Why do you think there are thousands of “bible denominations” that all think they get their conflicting and opposing beliefs from the bible. I’ll stick with the teachings passed down from the apostles themselves through the Church - the pillar and foundation of the truth.
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BibleTruth:
Also, cults call for worship of a person and their beliefs are contrary to Scripture. My belief calls for the worship of God, alone, through Jesus Christ.
As does mine. 🙂

P.S.: I like the NLT, too.
 
(cont. from previous post… )

SOO…

Does sabbath begin at sundown, a specific time of day, or later in the evening? One Jewish commentary identifies the time as when three stars are visible. That would be later than the ‘sunset’ Adventists typically use. Should that even be a factor, should sabbath be when Jerusalem experiences it, no matter where you are?

Adventists accept the day as beginning at the international date line. Adventists in Australia and China observe sabbath even before the middle east does.

The biblical commandment says ‘seventh day’. This term is not a proper noun,and it is not the name of a day. Its a designation for any day that follows a group of six. The grammar is the same as describing the ‘seventh apple’ or the ‘seventh house on the right’

‘seventh’ is determined by where someone would start counting, not an inherent quality of the item described.

There is nothing wrong if a person wants to observe a sabbath on Saturday, that is a personal decision. Where I disagree with Adventists is their insistence that other Christians MUST keep sabbath and make it an issue on which their salvation will be determined, if not now then in the future at some time.

Yes, this IS a matter of salvation to Adventists, regardless of what they often tell new members:

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

St. Paul clearly said differently: ( Colossians 2:16-17)

16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17
These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

and in Romans 14:

4
Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5
(For) one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind. 2
6
Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.

As Christians, we are free of the old law and its observances. Our sabbath rest is in Christ, not in a day of the week. Sunday is not the sabbath on another day, as Adventists claim.
(Hebrews Chapter 4)

9
Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God.
10
And whoever enters into God’s rest, rests from his own works as God did from his.
11
Therefore, let us strive to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall after the same example of disobedience.
12
Indeed, the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart.

Remember that the ‘Word’ of God is Jesus, not a book 

and from the Catechism:
usccb.org/catechism/text/…2chpt1art3.htm

“2175
Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107”

As Catholic Christians, we gather to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, as the FIRST day, celebrating the resurrection of Jesus, and as the EIGHTH day, as it surpasses the old sabbath which was a memorial of the old creation, and becomes the memorial of the NEW Creation in Christ.

usccb.org/catechism/text/…2chpt1art3.htm

"2174

Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week.“104 Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica)—Sunday”

Through her ministry and lawful authority, the Church has established Sunday and other feasts which provide for us opportunities for rest and worship and for our spiritual well being. There is flexibility. No one has to worry about a dateline change or what day is Sunday on the international space station. If there is a question, the local bishop can clarify. This has happened in the South Pacific. Adventists then often worship on the day BEFORE the Catholics. There is something amusing in that, they are recognizing the bishop’s authority while claiming he does not have it!

Jesus is our perfect and eternal rest…

MarysRoses
God set aside one day…the same seventh day of the week that we now call Saturday. It begins at sundown after the sixth day, regardless of where you are on the planet, and if you’re in Alaska or somewhere that the sun doesn’t set for months, it’s observed from midnight to midnight.

There’s nothing I can say to make you see that the seventh day Sabbath observance was never changed. You cite Scriptures that pertain to ceremonial laws that looked forward to Christ so obviously you’ve been taught to believe what you believe and choose to ignore the dozens of other Scriptures that show us that our love for God is exemplified in our keeping his commandments. But since you don’t respect the Scriptures for what they are, you’re going to continue to believe what you do. In the end, you won’t have to answer to me so I’ll leave it in God’s hands.

But the Sabbath is but one commandment that your church abuses…another being the commandment abolishing idol worship. I just find it hard to believe that the church you belong to claims authority over the very Creator that put it here.

I just know that the more I study my Bible, the more I see prophecy fulfilled by the RCC…and not in a positive way.

God bless you and take care.
 
But the Sabbath is but one commandment that your church abuses…another being the commandment abolishing idol worship. I just find it hard to believe that the church you belong to claims authority over the very Creator that put it here.
Where do you get the idea that we claim authority over God (we don’t btw) ? Citation please.
I just know that the more I study my Bible, the more I see prophecy fulfilled by the RCC…and not in a positive way.
No, the more you read the bible under the domination of your bigoted and hateful sect, the more you are deceived into seeing things that are not there and condemning Christ’s true Church.

Why are they trying to make you afraid? You sound very afraid. What is it about SDAs and JWs? They are always so angry and scared. It’s creepy.
 
But the Sabbath is but one commandment that your church abuses…
Why does your sect command to “abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth”? (1 Tim 4:3)

Isn’t that an abuse?

I am always suspicious of sects that explain their disobedience of the New Testament by citing a bunch of obscure Old Testament verses.
 
You know what a gloss is, don’t you? It is something that was not in the original document, but was added later by someone else. The title “Lord God the Pope” was a gloss, so by definition, it was not part of the official document.

"34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
  • John 10:34-36
“Gods” in this sense means judges (see Deut 1:17, Ex 21:6 and Psalms 82:6). The Pope is successor to the office of Peter who was given the authority to “bind and loose” - the power to judge in the Kingdom of God on earth. That does not say that the pope is to be worshiped, but rather that his judgment is to be followed.

I asked you for official Catholic documents. These are nothing of the kind, but are opinions of people who have no authority to speak for the Church.

That being said, what these quotes express is essentially true. The doctrines of the Catholic Church were handed down from the apostles, long before the New Testament was compiled in the 4th century. The doctrines of the Church are verified and taught in scripture, but the original source of our doctrines is the apostles themselves. If all the bibles in the world ceased to exist, the teachings of the Catholic Church could continue as always, because we don’t derive our doctrines from someone’s interpretation of the bible as you do. Our teachings are the teachings of the apostles which were handed down to to the Church through their successors, the bishops.

The Church, not the bible, “is the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15). The bible is derived from the Church, not the other way around.

This was not a prophecy and it has nothing to do with the value of sacred tradition. It was a rebuke of the Pharisees who perverted sacred tradition (the Law of Moses). I could just as easily quote:

“And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us.” - 2 Thess 3:6

That’s the problem with people trying to create their own churches based on their personal interpretation of the bible - you can quote the bible out of context to justify any belief you desire, from Henry VIII to Charles Manson. Why do you think there are thousands of “bible denominations” that all think they get their conflicting and opposing beliefs from the bible. I’ll stick with the teachings passed down from the apostles themselves through the Church - the pillar and foundation of the truth.

As does mine. 🙂

P.S.: I like the NLT, too.
"With regard to the power of priests over the real body of Jesus Christ,…we find that in obedience to the words of His priests–HOC EST CORPUS MEUM [This is my body]–God Himself descends on the altar, that he comes whenever they call Him, and as often as the call Him, and places Himself in their hands, even though they should be His enemies ?]. And after having come, He remains, entirely at their disposal; they move Him as they please, from one place to another; they may, if they wish, shut Him up in the tabernacle, or expose Him on the altar, or carry Him outside the church; they may, if they choose, eat His flesh, and give Him for the food of others…

"Thus the priest may, in a certain manner, be called the Creator of his Creator, since by saying the words of consecration, he creates, as it were Jesus in the sacrament, by giving Him sacramental existence, and produces Him as a victim to be offered to the eternal Father…

"‘The power of the priest’, says St. Bernadine of Sienna, ‘is the power of the Divine Person; for the transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the world.’…

“The priest holds the place of the Savior Himself, when, by saying ‘Ego te absolvo,’ he absolves from sin… To pardon a single sin requires all the omnipotence of god. The Jew justly said: Who can forgive sins but God alone? But what only God can do by His omnipotence, the priest can also do by saying, ‘Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis’ “I absolve you from your sins”]… [Pope] Innocent III has written: ‘Indeed, it is not too much to say that in a view of the sublimity of their offices the priests are so many Gods.’” Alphonsus de Liguouri, Dignity and Duties of the Priest (Brooklyn, NY: Redemptorist Fathers, 1927), pp. 26-36.

“I never invite an angel down from heaven to hear mass here. The is not the place for angels. The only person in heaven I ever ask to come down here is Jesus Christ, and Him I command to come down. He has to come when I bid him. I took bread in my fingers this morning and said: ‘This is the body and blood of Jesus Christ’, and He had to come down. This is one of the things He must do. He must come down every time I say mass at my bidding…I do it in obedience, reverence, homage, and adoration, but I do it, and when I do it, Christ must obey.” Roman Catholic Priest David S. Phelan, The Western Watchman (St. Louis: Western Watchman Publishing Company), June 10, 1915

“The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God…Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of Heaven and of earth and of the lower regions…The Pope is at it were God on earth,…chief King of kings,…to whom has been entrusted by the omnipotent God directions…of the heavenly kingdom.” Lucius Ferraris, “Papa,” article 2 in his Prompta Bibliotheca (“Handy Library”), Volume 6 (Venice, Italy: Gaspar Storti, 1772), pp. 26-29. Latin. Reprinted (Rome: Press of the Propaganda, 1899)

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over all the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, On the Authority of Councils (1619 edition), Volume II, book 2, chapter 17, p. 266

“…complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.” Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter “On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens,” dated January 10, 1890, translated in The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903), p. 193

“We [the Popes] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in and encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, translated in The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903), p. 304

All of the above is blasphemy if nothing else. Please read the following:

"With a blush on my face, and regret in my heart, I confess before God and man, that I have been through the confessional plunged for twenty-five years in that bottomless sea of iniquity, in which the blind priests of Rome have to swim day and night.

"I had to learn by heart the infamous questions which the Church of Rome forces every priest to learn. I had to put these impure, immoral questions to women and girls who were confessing their sins to me. Those questions, and the answers they elicit, are so debasing that only a man who has lost every sense of shame can put them to any woman.

“Yes, I was bound in conscience, to put them to the ears, the mind, the imagination, the memory, the heart and soul of women and girls, questions of such a nature, the direct and immediate tendency of which is to fill the minds and hearts of both priests and pentinents with thoughts and temptations of such a degrading nature, that I do not know any words adequate to express them. Pagan antiquity has never seen any institution more polluting than the confessional. I have lived twenty-five years in the atmosphere of the confessional. I was degraded and polluted by the confessional just as all the priests of Rome are. It has required all the blood of the great Victim, who has died on Calvary for sinners, to purify me.” Father Charles Chiniquy, The Priest, the Woman, and the Confessional (Toronto: The Gospel Witness), pp. 67-68, quoted in Boettner, Roman Catholicism, p. 213.
 
You know what a gloss is, don’t you? It is something that was not in the original document, but was added later by someone else. The title “Lord God the Pope” was a gloss, so by definition, it was not part of the official document.

"34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
  • John 10:34-36
“Gods” in this sense means judges (see Deut 1:17, Ex 21:6 and Psalms 82:6). The Pope is successor to the office of Peter who was given the authority to “bind and loose” - the power to judge in the Kingdom of God on earth. That does not say that the pope is to be worshiped, but rather that his judgment is to be followed.

I asked you for official Catholic documents. These are nothing of the kind, but are opinions of people who have no authority to speak for the Church.

That being said, what these quotes express is essentially true. The doctrines of the Catholic Church were handed down from the apostles, long before the New Testament was compiled in the 4th century. The doctrines of the Church are verified and taught in scripture, but the original source of our doctrines is the apostles themselves. If all the bibles in the world ceased to exist, the teachings of the Catholic Church could continue as always, because we don’t derive our doctrines from someone’s interpretation of the bible as you do. Our teachings are the teachings of the apostles which were handed down to to the Church through their successors, the bishops.

The Church, not the bible, “is the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15). The bible is derived from the Church, not the other way around.

This was not a prophecy and it has nothing to do with the value of sacred tradition. It was a rebuke of the Pharisees who perverted sacred tradition (the Law of Moses). I could just as easily quote:

“And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us.” - 2 Thess 3:6

That’s the problem with people trying to create their own churches based on their personal interpretation of the bible - you can quote the bible out of context to justify any belief you desire, from Henry VIII to Charles Manson. Why do you think there are thousands of “bible denominations” that all think they get their conflicting and opposing beliefs from the bible. I’ll stick with the teachings passed down from the apostles themselves through the Church - the pillar and foundation of the truth.

As does mine. 🙂

P.S.: I like the NLT, too.
Here’s another unfortunate excerpt:

“Poor Roman Catholic women! We know well that your kinds souls are tortured to death by the terrible Roman obligation to telling, not only your sins, but also the most intimate secrets of your married life. As an ex-priest we cal tell you that these mental tortures imposed upon your souls are NOT a prescription of the Saviour of mankind to obtain forgiveness of your sins, but are pure inventions of men to keep your minds and hearts under the control of a system, the torturous Roman religious organization. We must admit that as a priest we had no power to forgive your sins. No priest has such powers.” Lucien Vinet “I Was a Priest”

“For not a word is found in the writings of the early [Roman] church fathers about confessing sins to a priest or to anyone except God alone. The priestly confessional is not mentioned in the writings of such luminaries as Augustine, Origen, Nestorius, Tertullian, Jerome, Chrysostom, or Anthanasius. All of these and many others apparently lived and died without ever thinking of going to confession. Those writers give many rules about Christian living, but they never say a word about going to confession. Never were penitents forced to kneel to a priest and reveal to him all their evil thoughts, desires, and human frailties. No one other than God was thought to be worthy to hear confessions and grant forgiveness. It was not until 1215 that the Fourth Lateran Council under Pope Innocent III made private priestly confession compulsory.” Loraine Boettner, Roman Catholicism (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, copyright 1962), p. 199
  • Special thanks to Howard Peth for assembling these quotes in his book "Seven Mysteries Solved: 7 Issues that Touch the Heart of Mankind (Fallbrook, California: Hart Books) 2002
 
Where do you get the idea that we claim authority over God (we don’t btw) ? Citation please.

No, the more you read the bible under the domination of your bigoted and hateful sect, the more you are deceived into seeing things that are not there and condemning Christ’s true Church.

Why are they trying to make you afraid? You sound very afraid. What is it about SDAs and JWs? They are always so angry and scared. It’s creepy.
"We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible, we have the living Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, “yes”, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws…

“We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in the pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sundays of which there is nothing in the Bible.” The Catholic Extension Magazine (Under the Blessing of Pope Pius XII) 1954

“NO FORGIVENESS ‘DIRECTLY FROM GOD,’ POPE SAYS.”
The 138-page document – issued in Latin, Italian, German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, English, and Polish – notes that “the sacrament of reconciliation and penance, informally known as confession - an obligation of all Catholics … has fallen increasingly into disuse, especially in the industrial countries.” The Papal exhortation may be summarized in the following capsule comment from the Los Angeles Times article: “VATICAN CITY – Rebutting a belief widely shared by Protestants and a growing number of Roman Catholics, Pope John Paul II on Tuesday dismissed the ‘widespread idea that one can obtain forgiveness directly from God’ and exhorted Catholics to confess more often to their priests.” Don A Schanche, Times Staff Writer, “No Forgiveness ‘Directly from God,’ Pope Says,” Los Angeles Times, Wednesday, December 12 1984, Part I, p. 11
 
Why does your sect command to “abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth”? (1 Tim 4:3)

Isn’t that an abuse?

I am always suspicious of sects that explain their disobedience of the New Testament by citing a bunch of obscure Old Testament verses.
That Scripture is talking about the fact that Jews were not accepting food that was purchased in places where the pagan shop owners sacrificed their food to pagan gods. Paul was telling them that if they themselves didn’t sacrifice the food to pagan gods to not worry about it.

Seventh-day Adventists follow God’s instructions to stay away from unclean foods like pork and various scavengers. Some of us choose to eat other clean meats like chicken, beef, etc.

By the way, those of us who are truly following God accept and follow the entire Bible and don’t “pick and choose” what suits us best.
 
Where do you get the idea that we claim authority over God (we don’t btw) ? Citation please.

No, the more you read the bible under the domination of your bigoted and hateful sect, the more you are deceived into seeing things that are not there and condemning Christ’s true Church.

Why are they trying to make you afraid? You sound very afraid. What is it about SDAs and JWs? They are always so angry and scared. It’s creepy.
I don’t know who is afraid, friend. My hope is in Christ coming back to this earth to cleanse it from the sin and deceit it’s currently trapped in. If you really, closely and honestly read and study Daniel and Revelation, you’ll see yourself caught up in the enemy’s lies.

In speaking for myself and perhaps countless others in my faith, I don’t hate anyone and believe that many from all faiths will be saved in the end. With that said, however, I feel it will be important for all of us to “Come out of her my people” (Revelations 18:4) when the time comes so we all end up serving God in truth…and not die mistakenly serving his adversary.
 
Ahem…apparently I’ve strayed off into left field with my posts, lol. Sorry about that folks.
Please note that we believe that because it’s a prophecy in the Bible…not because we’ve made it up.
 
Where do you get the idea that we claim authority over God (we don’t btw) ? Citation please.

No, the more you read the bible under the domination of your bigoted and hateful sect, the more you are deceived into seeing things that are not there and condemning Christ’s true Church.

Why are they trying to make you afraid? You sound very afraid. What is it about SDAs and JWs? They are always so angry and scared. It’s creepy.
"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [seventh day to first day Holy observance] was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything in matters of spiritual and ecclesiastical and religious without her. And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical POWER and AUTHORITY in religious matters. H. F. Thomas, Chancellor for the Cardinal November 11, 1895.

Jesus made the Sabbath day and exclaimed himself to be Lord of it. The Ten Commandments identified it as the true “day of the Lord”. It’s outright blasphemy for anyone to claim change to it. What you’re not seeing is that is falling right into the devil’s trap…because he wants God’s worship for himself! That high level of pride is what got him kicked out of heaven. He came to this earth and immediately started spreading his lies by telling Eve, “you will not surely die”…something else your faith has also adopted as “truth”.

It’s clear to me what/who the “sacrilegious object that causes desecration” that was “set up to be worshiped” (Daniel 12:11 NLT) is…and you’ve chosen to worship it/him whether you know it or not. Jesus warned about it in Matthew 24:15, but you must not be taking heed.
 
just know that the more I study my Bible, the more I see prophecy fulfilled by the RCC…and not in a positive way. /QUOTE]

And I see prophecy fulfilled by the JWs, LDS, SDAs in the same exact manner.
 
Please note that we believe that because it’s a prophecy in the Bible…not because we’ve made it up.
Sorry my friend, if you’re talking about the Sunday law prophecy there…well, I’m afraid Mrs. White has already failed the test of prophecy. Her interpretation of Holy Scripture is not to be trusted.

Take care, I’m going to step away for the night. 🙂
 
Sorry my friend, if you’re talking about the Sunday law prophecy there…well, I’m afraid Mrs. White has already failed the test of prophecy. Her interpretation of Holy Scripture is not to be trusted.

Take care, I’m going to step away for the night. 🙂
Have a good night friend…I’ll reply to you tomorrow…I got caught up in responding to someone else tonight.

But just know that I don’t put my faith in or follow Ellen White or any other human. I serve Jesus and follow the Bible…which is the word of God.
 
That Scripture is talking about the fact that Jews were not accepting food that was purchased in places where the pagan shop owners sacrificed their food to pagan gods. Paul was telling them that if they themselves didn’t sacrifice the food to pagan gods to not worry about it.

Seventh-day Adventists follow God’s instructions to stay away from unclean foods like pork and various scavengers. Some of us choose to eat other clean meats like chicken, beef, etc.

By the way, those of us who are truly following God accept and follow the entire Bible and don’t “pick and choose” what suits us best.
Instead of preserving the Old Testament Law, why don’t you follow the New Testament which frees us from these laws? The New Testament tells us that God has declared all foods to be clean:
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
  • Matt 15:10-11
18 And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him,
19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)
  • Mark 7:18-19
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
  • Acts 10:9-15
If you want to be an Old Testament Jew instead of a New Testament Christian, good luck with that. You are just yoking yourself with man-made burdens that Jesus does not want you to bear.
 
You’re describing not merely a “radical 7th day Adventist offshoot group.” You’re describing wicked, selfish, out-of-control vandals who neither have respect for anyone nor invite respect from anyone.
 
Does your faith have the spirit of prophecy? Didn’t that angel tell John the same thing that Peter told Cornelius…“don’t worship me…worship only God”?
Egh, nobody here worships the Pope, Bishop, Priest, Monk, Nun, Statue, Tree, Rock, Leaf, Newspaper, Television, or Small Scratch-N-Sniff Sticker. All of those people and things fall into the category of “Not God”. =)

…maybe a stick of gum, though. Well, maybe not worship, but I sure do like a good piece of juicy fruit. Mmmm…
Google “Pope” and click on images. You will (eventually) see men fully prostrate (on their faces) worshiping the pope. That is blasphemy and God, according to his word, will not tolerate it. You can think you’re safe by listening to men, but one day, we’ll all have to answer to the one who really created us…and not a line of men that created a false doctrine.
Yup, not only have I seen pictures, but I’ve seen entire programs where men prostrate themselves during a Mass while receiving Holy Orders!! It’s beautiful! Brings a tear to my eye when I see prostrations before the Body of Christ.

You have to understand that Lord Jesus Christ Himself is present in Mass. He is really there. Wouldn’t you prostrate yourself before Him?! What you are seeing is without a doubt a Mass being presided over by the Pope. They are prostrate in front of the Body of Christ.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07Os02Jfhjagp/610x.jpg

This is a picture of men receiving Holy Orders during a Mass, prostrate before the Body of Christ. Such reverence for the Lord! I love it!!

Now, I would definitely bow and kiss a bishop’s ring! But that is nothing more than great respect for one who comes in the name of the Lord. Heh, that Bishop is lucky if all I do is kiss his ring, lol. I may kiss his ring, hand, neck, face, head, and hug him until his head pops off. Well, maybe not until his head pops off, but still.

heh, must’ve had a too much caffine this morning. Pardon my playfulness.
 
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