National Sunday Law

[PaulDupre]

As I’ve mentioned before, the U.S. Naval Observatory has concluded that the calendar used today is in 100% sync with how it was before Christianity ever began.

If that’s what you think, then you have been lied to by your leaders (hardly surprising).

Here is what the U.S. Naval Observatory really says:

Calendar dates — year, month, and day — are more problematic. Various calendar systems have been in use at different times and places around the world. This application deals with only two: the Gregorian calendar, now used universally for civil purposes, and the Julian calendar, its predecessor in the western world. As used here, the two calendars have identical month names and number of days in each month, and differ only in the rule for leap years. The Julian calendar has a leap year every fourth year, while the Gregorian calendar has a leap year every fourth year except century years not exactly divisible by 400.

This application assumes that the changeover from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar occurred in October of 1582, according to the scheme instituted by Pope Gregory XIII. Specifically, for dates on or before 4 October 1582, the Julian calendar is used; for dates on or after 15 October 1582, the Gregorian calendar is used. Thus, there is a ten-day gap in calendar dates, but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday, which begins at JD 2299160.5. The omission of ten days of calendar dates was necessitated by the astronomical error built up by the Julian calendar over its many centuries of use, due to its too-frequent leap years.

The changeover to the Gregorian calendar system occurred as described above only in Roman Catholic countries, however. Adoption of the Gregorian calendar in the rest of the world progressed slowly. For example, for England and its colonies, the change did not occur until September 1752. (The Unix cal command for systems manufactured in the U.S. reflects the 1752 changeover.)

For a list of when certain countries switched to the Gregorian calendar, see section 2.2.4 of Claus Tøndering’s Calendar FAQ. More information on calendars and their histories can be found in L. E. Doggett’s “Calendars” chapter of the Explanatory Supplement to the Astronomical Almanac (ed. P.K. Seidelmann, 1992, University Science Books).

• Source: U.S. Naval Observatory website

 

[Harpazo]

The Greek word used in Revelations 20:4 and 2 Peter 3:8…and all throughout Revelations…for “thousand” is “chilioi”…it means quite simply “a thousand”. This is the root word for “kilo”.

As I’ve mentioned before, the U.S. Naval Observatory has concluded that the calendar used today is in 100% sync with how it was before Christianity ever began. Jesus Christ…the one you claim to serve…kept the same seventh-day Sabbath 2000 years ago as exists today.

You can keep searching, friend, but the truth (the Bible) will never change or fall to the suppositions of men.

Yes, χιλιοι means “one thousand.” What does that have to do with the fact that it could still be in a metaphorical sense. Somewhere in one of Peter’s letters it says “one day to God is like a thousand years.” If you take that and run with it then for us it will be 365*1000. Or maybe you could just say, it’s in God’s time and for us to not concern ourselves with it.

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew

 

[newshadow]

The Greek word used in Revelations 20:4 and 2 Peter 3:8…and all throughout Revelations…for “thousand” is “chilioi”…it means quite simply “a thousand”. This is the root word for “kilo”.

But it’s not literal. Like was said before, it simply means forever.

As I’ve mentioned before, the U.S. Naval Observatory has concluded that the calendar used today is in 100% sync with how it was before Christianity ever began. Jesus Christ…the one you claim to serve…kept the same seventh-day Sabbath 2000 years ago as exists today.

You can keep searching, friend, but the truth (the Bible) will never change or fall to the suppositions of men.

Show us where the U.S. Naval Observatory says that we are a 100% in sync with the weekly calendar of over 2000 years ago. Please.

 

[COLOS]

Free your mind…and yourself, my brother!

Jesus isn’t coming back to this earth (on the ground anyway) until the 1000 year judgment is over and he comes to establish the New Jerusalem.

His Flesh and blood are here, given to us for our salvation.

Your faith has minimized the Creator of the universe to something some man can hold in his hand…instead of it being the other way around.

Lord God Himself decided that this was the way that salvation would work. He is the One who gave us His Flesh and Blood for food and drink. The types and shadows in the Old Testament speak volumes about what has been done for the Church/Kingdom/Family of Our Lord.

Melchizedek, righteous king of peace, gave bread and wine as an offering. In the Psalms it is said of the Lord, “You are a Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”

The first plague against the Egyptians worked by the Lord through Moses was the turning of water into blood. This was the very first act of freeing his people from the bondage of Egypt. In exactly the same manner the Lord’s first miracle was, at the intercession of Our Blessed Mother, the turning of water into wine at the marriage ceremony in Cana. This was the very first public act of freeing His people from the bondage of sin. Later, at the last supper, He would turn the wine into blood.

While the Hebrews were wandering for forty years in the desert, the Lord sent bread from heaven, mana, to feed them. While we wander our own spiritual desert, the Lord has sent mana from heaven to feed us…the Bread of His Flesh, for He is the mana which has come down from heaven.

This is not the tradition of mankind, but of God. For what man on this earth would ever create such a religion? What evil spirit could even imagine such a glorious thing as this? The Grace of God is poured out all day long upon us. This is not the work of evil, but of supreme good. Search harder. Study harder. Put your being in a posture receptive to grace.

You tell me to free myself. If I am a slave, it is to Christ.

 

[newshadow]

aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.php

That’s the closest I got to anything mentioning how well they did with tracking past dates… They make no claim that our Saturday is the same Saturday as what was practiced in 30AD.

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth;3945026:

BibleTruth,
Where in the world did you get the idea that these men are “worshipping the pope”? Did one of them tell you that is what they are doing? Or are you slandering them without any first hand knowledge?

Is the command to not bear false witness meaningful to you?

John Paul II in his book Crossing the Threshold of Hope: “The Pope is considered the man on earth who represents the Son of God, who ‘takes the place’ of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.” I find it difficult to see how a man taking the place of Jesus (along with all the other blasphemous things said by popes in reference to themselves being “God”) that it doesn’t indicate to you an issue of worship. With that said, however, unless I find a concrete quote calling for worship of the pope, I retract my statement.

But while we’re talking about worship of men (mankind…), please let me know where in the Bible it says that Mary was sinless and should intercede on our behalf to God?

 

[newshadow]

SDA2RC;3947159:

John Paul II in his book Crossing the Threshold of Hope: “The Pope is considered the man on earth who represents the Son of God, who ‘takes the place’ of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.” I find it difficult to see how a man taking the place of Jesus (along with all the other blasphemous things said by popes in reference to themselves being “God”) that it doesn’t indicate to you an issue of worship. With that said, however, unless I find a concrete quote calling for worship of the pope, I retract my statement.

But while we’re talking about worship of men (mankind…), please let me know where in the Bible it says that Mary was sinless and should intercede on our behalf to God?

That quote wasn’t from John Paul II, it was written by the author as commentary.

 

[BibleTruth]

aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.php

That’s the closest I got to anything mentioning how well they did with tracking past dates… They make no claim that our Saturday is the same Saturday as what was practiced in 30AD.

Thanks, but the point you’re missing is that the Catholic church leadership acknowledges making a change of holy day observance from the seventh to the first day!

They claim it as the “mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.”

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth;3948324:

That quote wasn’t from John Paul II, it was written by the author as commentary.

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over all the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, On the Authority of Councils (1619 edition), Volume II, book 2, chapter 17, p. 266

 

[Chris_LaRock]

A radical 7th day Adventist offshoot group gathers outside Catholic churches in Souther Oregon to try to stop worshippers from attending mass. They pass out nasty little booklets called National Sunday Law, the usual stuff calling us the “Whore of Babylon”, etc. They have gone as far as vandalizing church property and nailing hateful posters on the church doors.

A friend of mine has been totally brainwashed by this vehemently anti-catholic fringe group. I am trying to lead him to the truth, but it has been a difficult struggle. Does anyone have any information about this group, or about the author of Jan Marcussen who wrote that trashy little book called National Sunday Law? I would appreciate any help in my effort to bring my friend out of that awful cult-like sect.

Thanks -
Daniel

I saw that booklet and thought it was the most retarded thing I had ever read.

There’s a bible paraphrase out called ‘the clear word bible’. It’s a SDA themed paraphrase, and is quite confusing. It states that Jesus is God in many passages, while stating that He is Michael the Archangel in several others.

I’ll write to the “author” to ask who Jesus is exactly.

 

[newshadow]

Thanks, but the point you’re missing is that the Catholic church leadership acknowledges making a change of holy day observance from the seventh to the first day!

They claim it as the “mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.”

I don’t miss your point. I just don’t acknowledge because it is off base. You adhere soley to the Old Testament. The Church adheres to the New Testament. Christ left the Church in charge of the Truth.

I fully recognize that the Early Church Fathers declared that Sunday would be the Lord’s Day, not the Sabbath of the Old Covenant.

 

[newshadow]

newshadow;3948331:

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over all the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, On the Authority of Councils (1619 edition), Volume II, book 2, chapter 17, p. 266

We going to do this all night? Sure, why not. 1619 Edition? Fun. It looks to me like that quote, the one line, is about confirming the Pope’s authority of the Church. Not over the Holy Trinity.

Quote’s no good though. I can’t reference the original source material in full. Just that one line, quoted in a book full of one line quotes…

 

[BibleTruth]

It’s a perfect description of the LDS, JWs, and SDAs. They mock the Church Christ established.

Only one church fits this description:

Revelations 17:3-6: “So the angel took me in the Spirit into the wilderness. There I saw a woman (papal Rome) sitting on a scarlet beast that had seven heads and ten horns, and blasphemies against God were written all over it. The woman wore purple and scarlet clothing and beautiful jewelry made of gold and precious gems and pearls. In her hand she held a gold goblet full of obscenities and the impurities of her immorality. A mysterious name was written on her forehead: “Babylon the Great, Mother of All Prostitutes and Obscenities in the World.” I could see that she was drunk—drunk with the blood of God’s holy people who were witnesses for Jesus. I stared at her in complete amazement.”

Any religious scholar will tell you that Babylon (since it was then extinct when John wrote Revelations) referred to Rome.

Revelations 17:15-18: "Then the angel said to me, “The waters where the prostitute (pagan Rome) is ruling represent masses of people of every nation and language (Europe). The scarlet beast (papal Rome) and his ten horns all hate the prostitute (pagan Rome). They will strip her naked, eat her flesh, and burn her remains with fire. For God has put a plan into their minds, a plan that will carry out his purposes. They will agree to give their authority to the scarlet beast, and so the words of God will be fulfilled. And this woman (papal Rome) you saw in your vision represents the great city that rules over the kings of the world.”

Paul eluded to this in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12:

"Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness (pope) is revealed—the one who brings destruction. (inquisition) He will exalt himself (blasphemy) and defy everything that people (Protestants) call god and every object of worship (the seventh-day Sabbath). He will even sit in the temple of God (the “Church”), claiming that he himself is God (more blasphemy).

Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you (he couldn’t spell it in this letter outright or else he’d have been persecuted)? And you know what is holding him back (Caesar), for he can be revealed only when his time comes (476 A.D.). For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back (specifically Romulus Augustulus) steps out of the way (476 A.D.). Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus (the one who the pope claims to “take the place of”) will kill him (the pope) with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming (Amen!). This man (the pope) will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction (unfortunately, you), because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them (the Bible). So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth."

Repent of your sins and turn to God for the Kingdom of Heaven is at near. (Matthew 3:2)

 

[SPH1]

IMO, SDAism is a quasi-Christian Judaizing heresy built upon a false prophet, EGW.

IMO, a church built upon a false prophet is inherently satanic. This explains the extreme hatred of SDA’s towards Christ’s true Church.

IMO, the SDA’s extreme rhetoric is also fueled by their desire to have their false prophet - EGW - “proven” correct. If she is proven to be wrong - a false prophet - in that the Papacy is not the antichrist and the Holy Catholic Church is not the whore of Babylon, then their “church” will be proven to be built upon a lie.

IMO, to ensure that their sect is not built upon a lie, they will freely resort to any anti-Catholic propaganda, no matter how blatantly outrageous.

A few years back I ran across on the web “Janet”, a Catholic lady who passed out the Catholic Answers booklet “Pillar of Fire; Pillar of Truth” ( catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp ) on the sidewalk outside of some large SDA gathering. She related that the main guest speaker and some - thugs? - confronted her on the sidewalk in a hostile and intimidating manner.

But that is the answer. Order a batch of the Catholic Answers booklets and pass them out outside the SDA buildings. Also include some specifically SDA oriented apologetics material.

 

[PaulDupre]

John Paul II in his book Crossing the Threshold of Hope: “The Pope is considered the man on earth who represents the Son of God, who ‘takes the place’ of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.” I find it difficult to see how a man taking the place of Jesus (along with all the other blasphemous things said by popes in reference to themselves being “God”) that it doesn’t indicate to you an issue of worship. With that said, however, unless I find a concrete quote calling for worship of the pope, I retract my statement.

Hi BibleTruth,
The pope truly represents the Son of God as His vicar (representative) on earth.

Consider this passage:

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 **And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. **

-Matt 16:13-19

…which parallels and references this one:

20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:

21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.

• Isaiah 22:20-23

Just as Eliakim was called to be the representative of the king and hold the keys of the kingdom and the power to open and shut in the place of the king himself, so Peter was called by Jesus to be His representative on earth and to hold the keys of the kingdom of God and the power to bind and loose (open and shut) in the place of Jesus Himself.

Even if you don’t accept the Catholic teaching, you must admit that the scriptural parallel is astounding.

And no, representing Jesus has nothing to do with being worshiped. Only God is worshiped. The pope worships Jesus, as do those who follow him.

God bless you,
Paul

 

[COLOS]

Only one church fits this description:

Revelations 17:3-6: “So the angel took me in the Spirit into the wilderness. There I saw a woman (papal Rome) sitting on a scarlet beast that had seven heads and ten horns, and blasphemies against God were written all over it. The woman wore purple and scarlet clothing and beautiful jewelry made of gold and precious gems and pearls. In her hand she held a gold goblet full of obscenities and the impurities of her immorality. A mysterious name was written on her forehead: “Babylon the Great, Mother of All Prostitutes and Obscenities in the World.” I could see that she was drunk—drunk with the blood of God’s holy people who were witnesses for Jesus. I stared at her in complete amazement.”

Any religious scholar will tell you that Babylon (since it was then extinct when John wrote Revelations) referred to Rome.

Revelations 17:15-18: "Then the angel said to me, “The waters where the prostitute (pagan Rome) is ruling represent masses of people of every nation and language (Europe). The scarlet beast (papal Rome) and his ten horns all hate the prostitute. They will strip her naked, eat her flesh, and burn her remains with fire. For God has put a plan into their minds, a plan that will carry out his purposes. They will agree to give their authority to the scarlet beast, and so the words of God will be fulfilled. And this woman (papal Rome) you saw in your vision represents the great city that rules over the kings of the world.”

Actually, that’s not accurate. All of the early church fathers saw the whore which rides the beast as being the whore that Isreal became for the Roman Empire during the first century. The 666 reference to Nero is pretty plain as well.

Even Josephus says that he was astonished by how evil his own people had become.

This should be easy to fact check. I trust the early church fathers’ interpretations far more than I would ever trust any modern protestant intent on selling books.

 

[SPH1]

Actually, that’s not accurate. All of the early church fathers saw the whore which rides the beast as being the whore that Isreal became for the Roman Empire during the first century. The 666 reference to Nero is pretty plain as well.

Even Josephus says that he was astonished by how evil his own people had become.

This should be easy to fact check. I trust the early church fathers’ interpretations far more than I would ever trust any modern protestant intent on selling books.

My old article here shasta.com/sphaws/endtimes.html has material on the various end-times theories.

 

[BibleTruth]

Actually, that’s not accurate. All of the early church fathers saw the whore which rides the beast as being the whore that Isreal became for the Roman Empire during the first century. The 666 reference to Nero is pretty plain as well.

Even Josephus says that he was astonished by how evil his own people had become.

This should be easy to fact check. I trust the early church fathers’ interpretations far more than I would ever trust any modern protestant intent on selling books.

Sorry, friend, but you’re wrong on all of these points. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[newshadow]

Sorry, friend, but you’re wrong on all of these points. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Can you show us how he’s wrong?

 

[PaulDupre]

Only one church fits this description:

Revelations 17:3-6: “So the angel took me in the Spirit into the wilderness. There I saw a woman (papal Rome) sitting on a scarlet beast that had seven heads and ten horns, and blasphemies against God were written all over it. The woman wore purple and scarlet clothing and beautiful jewelry made of gold and precious gems and pearls. In her hand she held a gold goblet full of obscenities and the impurities of her immorality. A mysterious name was written on her forehead: “Babylon the Great, Mother of All Prostitutes and Obscenities in the World.” I could see that she was drunk—drunk with the blood of God’s holy people who were witnesses for Jesus. I stared at her in complete amazement.”

Any religious scholar will tell you that Babylon (since it was then extinct when John wrote Revelations) referred to Rome.

Revelations 17:15-18: "Then the angel said to me, “The waters where the prostitute (pagan Rome) is ruling represent masses of people of every nation and language (Europe). The scarlet beast (papal Rome) and his ten horns all hate the prostitute (pagan Rome). They will strip her naked, eat her flesh, and burn her remains with fire. For God has put a plan into their minds, a plan that will carry out his purposes. They will agree to give their authority to the scarlet beast, and so the words of God will be fulfilled. And this woman (papal Rome) you saw in your vision represents the great city that rules over the kings of the world.”

What makes you think that the “woman” is papal Rome? Actually in the New Testament, “Babylon” referred to pre-Christian (pagan) Rome, which persecuted and killed the saints for nearly 300 years prior to the Edict of Milan in 313 A.D. You can tell this because Peter, in 1 Peter 5:13 calls Rome “Babylon”. If Rome was Babylon during Peter’s lifetime (before Rome was Christianized) then Babylon in the NT was pagan Rome.

What makes you think that the scarlet beast is papal Rome (besides the conditioning from your cult leaders)?

Paul