National Sunday Law

  • Thread starter Thread starter Daniel
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry, friend, but you’re wrong on all of these points. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
It isn’t me that you disagree with. Without some of the early fathers, I would have no real opinion on the symbolism. It is far wiser to steer clear of any personal interpretation of Revelations than it is to simply accept whatever comes down the pipe from modern protestantism and its various off-shoots.

I was actually hoping to see a response to my earlier post about types and shadows of the Eucharist in the Old Testament! But alas, you appear busy tonight.
 
My old article here shasta.com/sphaws/endtimes.html has material on the various end-times theories.
A spell seems to be cast over Protestants, who don’t even bat an eye that a thousand (+) years of Christianity just seemingly disappears; not bothered by Christ’s words that “the gates of hell shall not overcome it.” Also, can’t seem to see the Church Christ built on Peter standing right in front of them.
Rather than leading back to New Testament, the Sola Scriptura of the Reformation disintegrates into anarchy. Protestantism not united by Eucharist or even common belief in Christ. Only united by one thing: They all stand against the Church built on Peter. In sense, pope is their only unifying principle; a sort of anti-Church. Disunited Christendom makes easier going for Satan.
Wow, nicely done. Well written article there.
 
Hi BibleTruth,
The pope truly represents the Son of God as His vicar (representative) on earth.

Consider this passage:

…which parallels and references this one:

Just as Eliakim was called to be the representative of the king and hold the keys of the kingdom and the power to open and shut in the place of the king himself, so Peter was called by Jesus to be His representative on earth and to hold the keys of the kingdom of God and the power to bind and loose (open and shut) in the place of Jesus Himself.

Even if you don’t accept the Catholic teaching, you must admit that the scriptural parallel is astounding.

And no, representing Jesus has nothing to do with being worshiped. Only God is worshiped. The pope worships Jesus, as do those who follow him.

God bless you,
Paul
John Paul II said Mary should be worshiped.

We all have the keys to heaven friend…it’s in our hearts and minds.
 
John Paul II said Mary should be worshiped.

We all have the keys to heaven friend…it’s in our hearts and minds.
And now we must clarify latria, hyperdulia, and dulia, heh.

editheh, switched latria for adoration. Probably more inline with the latin and whatnot.
 
I don’t miss your point. I just don’t acknowledge because it is off base. You adhere soley to the Old Testament. The Church adheres to the New Testament. Christ left the Church in charge of the Truth.

I fully recognize that the Early Church Fathers declared that Sunday would be the Lord’s Day, not the Sabbath of the Old Covenant.
If you think I only reference the Old Testament you’re not reading everything I post.
 
Watch this…

When I was SDA we use to do something we called the Garden of Prayer. All the Elders would kneel at the front of the Church. Then the congregation would get out of the pews and kneel down facing the elders. Obviously worshipping them. Some of the congregation would even go up to the front of the Church and kneel right in front of them… feet away. Blasphemy I tell you!

Do you understand what I am trying to say “Bible Truth”?
There’s no worship of any person during any Seventh-day Adventist service. We worship God through Jesus…period.
 
Yes, χιλιοι means “one thousand.” What does that have to do with the fact that it could still be in a metaphorical sense. Somewhere in one of Peter’s letters it says “one day to God is like a thousand years.” If you take that and run with it then for us it will be 365*1000. Or maybe you could just say, it’s in God’s time and for us to not concern ourselves with it. 👍

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew
You didn’t even see the post where I first referenced the thousand years…it included 2 Peter 3:8. Maybe you should read that first before chiming in.

By the way, “like” or “as” are similes…not multipliers.

And it is for us to concern ourselves with if you read Revelations 22:7: “Look, I am coming soon! Blessed are those who obey the words of prophecy written in this book.”
 
John Paul II said Mary should be worshiped.
Please do not keep throwing out these stupid unsourced accusations. When you make a claim, cite an authoritative source so we can discuss it. All you ever present is empty unsourced claims from your cult leaders.

Whenever you get pinned to the wall or caught in a lie, you throw out one of these inflammatory claims from your cult leaders to deflect attention away from the argument that you lost. Typical cult tactic. The JWs and Mormons do this too.

Where specifically did JPII say that Mary should be worshiped? Is this like your claim that the pope is to be worshiped (which we showed was a lie)?

Paul
 
Can you show us how he’s wrong?
Show me where he’s RIGHT!

On the 666 issue alone, just consider the pope’s official title (even if they try to tell you otherwise):

Vicarius Filii Dei = 666.

I’m sure you’re going to try to dispute that title, but here’s the article that was later removed: biblelight.net/OSV1915.gif

I’ll wait for the post telling me Ellen Gould White also adds up to 666 also and will address that then. Before you do, however, realize that I follow the Bible as my ultimate source.
 
Please do not keep throwing out these stupid unsourced accusations. When you make a claim, cite an authoritative source so we can discuss it. All you ever present is empty unsourced claims from your cult leaders.

Whenever you get pinned to the wall or caught in a lie, you throw out one of these inflammatory claims from your cult leaders to deflect attention away from the argument that you lost. Typical cult tactic. The JWs and Mormons do this too.

Where specifically did JPII say that Mary should be worshiped? Is this like your claim that the pope is to be worshiped (which we showed was a lie)?

Paul
I already posted the quote…but:

May 7, 1997 (David W. Cloud, Fundamental Baptist News Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061-0368, fbns@wayoflife.org) - On May 7 Pope John Paul II dedicated his general audience to “the Virgin Mary” and urged all Christians to accept Mary as their mother. He noted the words spoken by Jesus on the cross to Mary and to John–“Woman, behold thy son!” and “Behold thy mother!” (John 19:26,27), and he claimed that in this statement “IT IS POSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND THE AUTHENTIC MEANING OF MARIAN WORSHIP in the ecclesial community … which furthermore is based on the will of Christ” (Vatican Information Service, May 7, 1997).

John Paul II underlined that “the history of Christian piety teaches that MARY IS THE PATH THAT LEADS TO CHRIST, and that filial devotion to her does not at all diminish intimacy with Jesus, but rather, it increases it and leads it to very high levels of perfection.” He concluded by asking all Christians “to make room (for Mary) in their daily lives, ACKNOWLEDGING HER PROVIDENTIAL ROLE IN THE PATH OF SALVATION” (Ibid.).

Mary was a sinner…just like me…just like you.

The links on the Vatican website is no longer active…go figure.
 
It isn’t me that you disagree with. Without some of the early fathers, I would have no real opinion on the symbolism. It is far wiser to steer clear of any personal interpretation of Revelations than it is to simply accept whatever comes down the pipe from modern protestantism and its various off-shoots.

I was actually hoping to see a response to my earlier post about types and shadows of the Eucharist in the Old Testament! But alas, you appear busy tonight.
Backed up with all the folks chiming in without reading earlier posts. But, there’s a reason I’m up at almost 3am trying to reach out to you good folks…

Why didn’t early Catholics like Augustine, Origen, Nestorius, Tertullian, Jerome, Chrysostom or Athanasius go to confession if it’s such an important part of your faith?
 
If that’s what you think, then you have been lied to by your leaders (hardly surprising).

Here is what the U.S. Naval Observatory really says:
Did you read this before posting it? but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday.
 
But it’s not literal. Like was said before, it simply means forever.

Show us where the U.S. Naval Observatory says that we are a 100% in sync with the weekly calendar of over 2000 years ago. Please.
Someone else in your camp helped me out by posting it themselves. Here’s the important part of it:

but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday.

“It’s not literal”. Are you a Bible scholar to be qualified to make that claim? How can something that clearly means “a thousand” mean “forever”? The burden of proof is on you because the Bible says what it says.
 
Why didn’t early Catholics like Augustine, Origen, Nestorius, Tertullian, Jerome, Chrysostom or Athanasius go to confession if it’s such an important part of your faith?
You’ve got to be kidding me. Have you even read their works? Have you bothered to see exactly how incredibly Catholic they are?!

I’ve put some good thought into these posts, my friend. We all have. Now you bounce me to another topic…again? What are you trying to do here? Distract? Search the net to find as many ridiculous objections as possible? We’ve answered you again and again on every topic. You have picked exactly what you want to engage on. Time and time again, when confronted you push us off.

Finally I see that you are not searching for answers to questions about Catholicism. You are looking to attack. That is all you are looking for.

I’d be glad to engage in some meaningful debate when you are actually looking for real answers.

For the time being, game over for me, friend. Have a pleasant evening.
 
His Flesh and blood are here, given to us for our salvation.

Lord God Himself decided that this was the way that salvation would work. He is the One who gave us His Flesh and Blood for food and drink. The types and shadows in the Old Testament speak volumes about what has been done for the Church/Kingdom/Family of Our Lord.

Melchizedek, righteous king of peace, gave bread and wine as an offering. In the Psalms it is said of the Lord, “You are a Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”

The first plague against the Egyptians worked by the Lord through Moses was the turning of water into blood. This was the very first act of freeing his people from the bondage of Egypt. In exactly the same manner the Lord’s first miracle was, at the intercession of Our Blessed Mother, the turning of water into wine at the marriage ceremony in Cana. This was the very first public act of freeing His people from the bondage of sin. Later, at the last supper, He would turn the wine into blood.

While the Hebrews were wandering for forty years in the desert, the Lord sent bread from heaven, mana, to feed them. While we wander our own spiritual desert, the Lord has sent mana from heaven to feed us…the Bread of His Flesh, for He is the mana which has come down from heaven.

This is not the tradition of mankind, but of God. For what man on this earth would ever create such a religion? What evil spirit could even imagine such a glorious thing as this? The Grace of God is poured out all day long upon us. This is not the work of evil, but of supreme good. Search harder. Study harder. Put your being in a posture receptive to grace.

You tell me to free myself. If I am a slave, it is to Christ.
Jesus ascended into heaven and left nothing here but an empty tomb.

The bread and wine are symbolic of his body and blood…not the actual thing! Where in the Bible does it say we’re eating and drinking his physical flesh and drinking his physical blood? If anything, Genesis tells us NOT to eat blood. Jesus saves us through the blood he shed on the cross. The Bread of Life is his word. Matthew 4:4: But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus was present when giving the first communion…so how could it be his actual body and blood? He told them to do it to “remember” him…not to turn it into something sacrilegious.

But it’s no surprise the Catholic church has done this as they’ve taken everything else sacred and mixed it with paganism to do nothing but confuse the masses. This was originally done to convert more souls after Constantine made Christianity legal and it’s caught on with the rest of your faith.

The actual meaning of manna is: “What is it?”. If you’re going to use it to support your point…and since this forum is discussing the Sabbath…keep in mind that it fell for six days and on the sixth day, they had to collect a double portion because God didn’t rain it down on the seventh day.

Will you address that or do you only use some of the Old Testament in your arguments?

I’m a slave to Christ as well. But to the Christ of the Bible…the Son of God who created the universe and has no substitute beyond the Holy Spirit who was sent to us as his advocate…and not to a manufactured concept of one by and subject to the Catholic church.
 
You’ve got to be kidding me. Have you even read their works? Have you bothered to see exactly how incredibly Catholic they are?!

I’ve put some good thought into these posts, my friend. We all have. Now you bounce me to another topic…again? What are you trying to do here? Distract? Search the net to find as many ridiculous objections as possible? We’ve answered you again and again on every topic. You have picked exactly what you want to engage on. Time and time again, when confronted you push us off.

Finally I see that you are not searching for answers to questions about Catholicism. You are looking to attack. That is all you are looking for.

I’d be glad to engage in some meaningful debate when you are actually looking for real answers.

For the time being, game over for me, friend. Have a pleasant evening.
Incredibly Catholic…perhaps, as I’ve learned. But show me the evidence of where they went to confession.

Also, I have several posts on here that have never been responded to, so your comment that they all have been addressed is wrong.

I’ve done my best to keep up with the onslaught of posts from you good folks, but I can’t respond to every one in a timely fashion and some of them flat-out make no sense.

I’m not looking to attack…I’m doing my best, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to show you the truth so you stop believing lies.
 
I don’t miss your point. I just don’t acknowledge because it is off base. You adhere soley to the Old Testament. The Church adheres to the New Testament. Christ left the Church in charge of the Truth.

I fully recognize that the Early Church Fathers declared that Sunday would be the Lord’s Day, not the Sabbath of the Old Covenant.
Read Hebrews 4 and tell me if it’s still just of the Old Testament.
 
BibleTruth;3948340:
We going to do this all night? Sure, why not. 1619 Edition? Fun. It looks to me like that quote, the one line, is about confirming the Pope’s authority of the Church. Not over the Holy Trinity.

Quote’s no good though. I can’t reference the original source material in full. Just that one line, quoted in a book full of one line quotes…
Your current pope stands by these writings.
 
What makes you think that the “woman” is papal Rome? Actually in the New Testament, “Babylon” referred to pre-Christian (pagan) Rome, which persecuted and killed the saints for nearly 300 years prior to the Edict of Milan in 313 A.D. You can tell this because Peter, in 1 Peter 5:13 calls Rome “Babylon”. If Rome was Babylon during Peter’s lifetime (before Rome was Christianized) then Babylon in the NT was pagan Rome.

What makes you think that the scarlet beast is papal Rome (besides the conditioning from your cult leaders)?

Paul
A woman in biblical terms/prophecy refers to a church. God’s true church is mentioned in Revelations 12…the one that had a son (Jesus) that the dragon (with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns) tried to devour when it was born (by Herod, who was a Roman client king). It was clothed with the sun and had a crown of 12 stars. When Jesus died, he was executed by Romans, pierced by Romans, his tomb had a Roman seal on it and it was guarded by Romans.

The woman (church) in Revelations 17 was sitting on a scarlet beast that had seven heads and ten horns. Verse 9 says that the seven heads represent the seven hills where the woman rules. It also represents seven kings.

Rome is well known as the “City on Seven Hills”. Additionally, when pagan Rome fell, it was divided into ten kingdoms (hence the ten horns…). Seven of these kingdoms accepted papal Roman rule, but three…the Heruli, Ostrogoths and Vandals resisted. If you go back to Daniel 7:8, you’ll see prophecy on this (the “little horn” mentioned there is the pope). The Ostrogoths were the last to fall in 538 A.D. which is the start of the 1260-year prophecy mentioned in Revelations 12:6 (I have other posts explaining the day/year time prophecies). It’s during those 1260 years (538 A.D. through 1798 A.D.) that God’s true church fled into the wilderness while countless saints were murdered by the hand of the papacy.

In reading Revelations 13, you can see that this beast rose up out of the sea. In biblical prophecy, this indicates rising up from within many people (Europe)…again with the seven heads, ten horns and ten crowns (before the other three fell…these visions/prophecies were not all written in chronological order). It was a unique beast in that the papacy is the only “church” that is a religious and state seat with the Vatican being the smallest country in the world. This beast was given it’s power by the dragon (the devil). The wound is the pope being taken hostage in 1798 A.D. by Napoleon’s army, but was then healed (ultimately in 1929 with the Lateran Concordat).

There’s so much more to all of this, but I’m fairly sure you don’t believe it. If I’m correct and you don’t believe it, it’s because you don’t want to believe it…not because it’s not true.

When you look at all of the other time prophecies in the Bible that have been validated through history (Jesus birth, for one), you can’t dismiss these clues, friend. Your church wants to keep you in the dark on these matters because your church is working under the influence of the enemy of truth.

I’m not a fanatical zealot trying to spread hatred…if I had it my way, all churches would unite under the truth of the Bible and shed the man-made doctrines so many of us have adopted. But these things have to come to pass because God gave these prophecies to us, knowing that some would have hard hearts as he knows the beginning from the end.

Actually, in the end, that’s what it’s going to come down to…clear identification of who is serving God and clear identification of who is serving his enemy. The Bible holds the keys to helping you choose a side…not the Catechism or any other teachings that are not of the Scriptures.

Which side will you choose?
 
There’s no worship of any person during any Seventh-day Adventist service. We worship God through Jesus…period.
BibleTruth…
No… you all kneel down, and worship the elders. What else would you be doing when you all kneel down in front of the Elders. I was Adventist for nearly 30 years.

Many Adventists also kneel down with their Bibles in their hands and pray to them.

What else could have been happening? The whole congregation kneels and faces the Elders. It must be worship!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top