D
diggnitty
Guest
What’s your point?
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J
justasking4
Guest
What Catholic teachings were the reformers protesting against?
Depends. If there is signifcant error in the Roman Catholic church and there is then yes it would be proper to think of protestants who are true to Christ would truly be the Universal Church.
Do we see anyone in the NT letters appealing to Peter as the rock on which Christ is building His church?
Yes. Protestant churches are structured in doctrine and practice more like the NT church than Roman Catholicism. Many Protestant Churches are modeled after Acts 2:42 and Ephesians 4:11-12.
What you don’t see prefigured in Scripture are the marian doctrines or the rosary.
J
justasking4
Guest
I was referring to this phrase from I Timothy:
… Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats.
I should have also added that the catholic church forbids it leaders i.e. priests, bishops and popes from marrying.
L
Lampo
Guest
JA4…What exactly do you think 1 Tim. 3:15 means? In other words, what is your fallible interpretation of it?
Also, do you realize the “Roman Catholic Church” is referring to the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church; and that all of the rites are in communion with the Holy See?
Also, do you realize the “Roman Catholic Church” is referring to the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church; and that all of the rites are in communion with the Holy See?
D
diggnitty
Guest
Okay. So are you saying that the Catholic Church is somehow fulfilling a prophecy here?
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guanophore
Guest
It depends upon a number of matters. There are exemptions, but the Latin Rite prefers to choose priests from those who are called to be celibate, so their interests won’t be divided, and they can give their whole attention to the Church.
No, he is called to the vocation of marriage, to which he should give his full attention. The care of a bishop is the Teaching and the care of the flock. He is considered a spouse of the Church.
While it is true that disobedience to the authority God has placed is is the road to hell, the quote I was responding to was about “forbidding to eat meats”. Catholics are not compelled to become vegetarians. Neither are there any other dietary requirements. The guidelines about fasting are a spiritual devotion, not dietary requirements.
No, not in the US dioceses anyway. However, I believe the guidelines for keeping the fast are different in other places.
I don’t think there were many. The protest was primarily about disciplines and practices. I think the main protest then, and still is today as exemplified by yourself, is rebellion against the authority appointed by Christ.
When you say things like this, you insult all the other Christians around the world who are true to their faith, but are not Protestant or Roman. It reflects a narrow minded thinking.
Why would you need to? Everyone knew that. Even before the Gospel was written, this was taught through the whole church. Why do you think Jesus gave this commission only to Peter?
The NT reflects the teachings. That is why this is in the NT.
I think you are formulating it backwards, ja4. We don’t see any other man made churches mentioned in the NT, except groups or people that are in error for departing from right doctrine. The doctrine of the Apostles is not “protestant”, and neither were their practices. What has happened is that sincere persons, craving that right doctrine, yet having been separated from the Apostolic Succession have tried to recreate it in the present day. Apostolic succession has to be passed from one person to another. It does not spring forth from the imagination of man based upon what they read in the NT.
On the contrary, this is exactly where we see the prefigurments!
No one is forbidden to marry. No one is commanded to abstaing from meats. The Latin Rite prefers to take clergy from those who are called to celibacy, so that their interests will not be divided, and they can give full attention to the flock of God. The guidelines for fasting are a spiritual discipline, not a dietary requirement. There is nothing wrong with eating meats, and the Catholic Church has never taught that there was.
S
submittedjoy
Guest
I’m speaking to those that “forbid” to marry… Jesus and Paul chose not to. It is fine for priest to remain celibate if they choose. It’s the “forbidding to” that is not scriptural.Are you suggesting that Jesus and Paul, having embraced celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom, had fallen away from the truth?
Do you think that the Catholic Church forbids ANYONE to marry?
Do you think that Catholics are commanded to be vegetarians?
G
guanophore
Guest
The Catholic Church does not forbid a person to marry. Celibate priests are preferred because there interests are not divided, and they can serve the Church without distraction. They have already made a vow of celibacy before they are ordained as priests. They make this choice of their own free will.
If they are called to marriage, then the Church prefers for them to give their whole being to that vocation.
J
justasking4
Guest
This is not the scriptural mandate though. It is a requirement in the catholic church if a man desires to be a bishop he cannot be married. He is immediately disqualified for the mere fact he is married.
Secondly, we know there are many excellent protestant ministers who are married and are able to serve the church very well. In fact they can actually be in a better position if their wives support them spiritually and emotionally on a deep level.
C
c659smith
Guest
There is so tell me how many Protestant Churches are opened today for Easter Services.
I see most closed esspecially Baptist
Wonder Why?
I do not see the Protestant Churches opened from dawn to dusk.
Wonder Why?
J
justasking4
Guest
.
32,999—
i to would wonder…
I do not see the Protestant Churches opened from dawn to dusk.
Wonder Why?
E
East_Anglican
Guest
Easter is in two weeks time.
A lot of Protestants in my town are going to be following the cross through the streets with the Roman Catholics.
I’m not baptist but maybe they are where Jesus liked to be. Among ‘sinners’ prostitutes, the down and out, the hurting etc etc.
There are some that are open 24 hours a day. But so what. Does how often the church building is open or how often we attend things there make us better Christians? God isn’t impressed with our piety at all.
I feel difficult writing this because God has revealed to me that I am an idolater. I have an idol called Anglicanism. People from all traditions in my town are feeling so God is revealling the same thing to them.
Jesus isn’t interested in individual denominations and he isn’t interested in ecumenicalism but he is interested in building his Church. His Church and not yours or mine. His Church and not the RC Church or The Anglican Church or The baptist Church.
In the light of that, I would love to change my handle.
C
CentralFLJames
Guest
Excellence is not a relative concept. Teaching fractional truth, is not “excellence”. God does not grade on a curve. If one dies impenitent in mortal sin - that man was an “excellent sinner” and self-condems itself to Hell. All it takes is one grave sin, one false teaching that leads some other soul to hell to become non-excellent in God’s judgement. You judge by man’s standards not God’s.
The overwhelming majority of Catholic clergy are holy men who are devoted to God just like Jesus was. They are not distracted from service by the demands of attending to a spouse since that would take too much time away from the spousal commitment as well as God’s service. I don’t think you get just how devout these priests are and how much of their life they spend in God’s service. It’s a FULL TIME LIFE JOB to be a priest. They get called at all hours of the day and night to attend to the sick and the dieing, those needing comfort, those needing counseling and encouragement. They always prepare themselves in quiet prayer for the liturgy of the mass and the homilies and the affairs of running the Church. That level of service requires a commitment to God and service that would be unfair to a marriage relationship. It would end up dividing the sacrifice of marriage against the sacrifice of the priesthood and work at cross purposes. Further our priests while being very human are very pious and holy. You will not too often see a Catholic Priest out in secular life attending wild parties, or public secular events and getting caught up “in the world” and the affairs of secular life. That would be degrading to the pious image and example of a priestly servant of God.
At one time early in my life when I was less informed about the theology that I imagined that priests should marry. I am now extremely opposed to the idea. I don’t want our priests looking anything like what I see in the Protestant clergy. I don’t have too many handy statistics but there are enormous anecdotal accounts of “two faces” to a protestant minister - what behavior and stress happen at home and what face is show in public.
According to one protestant study the vast majority of Protestant clergy believe there is additional pressure on pastors’ families.
Stress in Protestant Minister Families:
I for one consider The Catholic Church extremely blessed that we have such devoted priests and our clergy look nothing like what we often see in secular aligned church ministries. Yet we have plenty of lay leadership and holy men and women right within our own pews who lead by example in secular life as well. Our typical married deacons and laity are very devout and if I must say I have yet to meet a protestant minister or clergy who come even close to the pious levels that even our laity have. I can however respect the Presbyterian ministers and some Anglican ministers as perhaps the closest I have seen to the standards and conduct we maintain but they do not have valid priestly orders unless converting back to The Catholic Church.
James
C
c659smith
Guest
His Church is the Catholic Church That is the church Jesus built.Easter is in two weeks time.
A lot of Protestants in my town are going to be following the cross through the streets with the Roman Catholics.
I’m not baptist but maybe they are where Jesus liked to be. Among ‘sinners’ prostitutes, the down and out, the hurting etc etc.
There are some that are open 24 hours a day. But so what. Does how often the church building is open or how often we attend things there make us better Christians? God isn’t impressed with our piety at all.
I feel difficult writing this because God has revealed to me that I am an idolater. I have an idol called Anglicanism. People from all traditions in my town are feeling so God is revealling the same thing to them.
Jesus isn’t interested in individual denominations and he isn’t interested in ecumenicalism but he is interested in building his Church. His Church and not yours or mine. His Church and not the RC Church or The Anglican Church or The baptist Church.
In the light of that, I would love to change my handle.
The Catholic Church is not a building as it is within the Eucharist and without the Eucharist there is no Church.
My point was that priests are married to the church they are the bridegroom awaiting Jesus;s return.
They devout their lives to the church 24/7 so there is little distractions
C
CentralFLJames
Guest
As best I can tell the largest issues Protestants had in general was authority of the priests, bishops and pope. Once they broke away from the teaching authority of The Church and gave it “to the people” they invented every conceivable sort of oddball doctrine and teaching imaginable. The only thing that unites the 30,000 or so Protestant sects at all is their common scorn for The Catholic Church and the authority Jesus gave it.
This is absurd at face value. Which of the 30,000 or so protestant sects does not have ‘significant error’ and it can call itself “The Universal Church”. Only the Catholic Church has called itself “universal” for 2,000 years. So you want us to believe that the only church calling itself “Catholic” is the only one in ‘significant error’?
What relevance is this? The Church is prefigured in dozens of OT and NT scriptures that I have already enumerated. Why single out a single text? Either you accept all of scripture or none of scripture. While pondering that also ask yourself why is it that Protestants have “no wisdom” in their KJV when The Church had it for 1500 years before Protestants came into existence to remove it?
Where in scripture do we get the screaming, and shouting oration style so common of fundamentalist protestants? Where in scripture do we get the infamous example for TV evangelicals like Bakker, Swaggart and Oral Roberts?
Are you sure you are reading the same bible I am? You don’t see all the example of prayer in the scripture? Do you have any idea what a rosary even is? Do you have a clue with the rosary mysteries are? Hint - its a focus on the life of the Holy Family and the scriptural accounts.
As for Marian doctrine we have given you enormous scriptural references in other threads.
James
L
Lampo
Guest
JA4…What *truth *is the Church upholding and guarding?
J
justasking4
Guest
Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?
L
Lampo
Guest
As you probably know, I Tim 3:15 says the Church is the pillar and bullwark of truth. I’m just wondering what your fallible interpretation is of this passage. Would an example of this truth be baptism?
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guanophore
Guest
No, you have it backwards, ja4. A person who is called to be bishop is called to espouse himself to the Church, like Jesus has done. He represents the Shepherd to the people. It would be more accurate to say that he is REQUIRED to be married, and that his marriage is to the Bride of the Lamb. A married person is not “disqualified”, he is differently called. Marriage is considered a full time vocation in itself. The Church calls those who are able to devote all their attention, so that their interests will not be divided.
Scripture does not “mandate” that a bishop be married, Scripture mandates that a bishop not have been the husband of more than one wife. this is another example of what Sacred Tradition brings to us. When we read this passage in the light of the Apostolic TEachings, we understand that this is not a mandate. Since you reject the Sacred Tradition, you misinterpred the passage. See how that works?
Some of these excellent Protestant Ministers are accepted into the Catholic Priesthood. That is why we keep telling you that being married does not disqualify a person. I don’t understand why it is so important for you to disregard the facts. I guess you would not be able to retain your bigotry otherwise.
J
justasking4
Guest
Where did Jesus or His apostles ever mandate that leaders in the church were to be single and celibate? Chapter and verse please.
The Shepard never made a person’s marital status part of representing Him. Did Jesus pick married or unmarried men to be His apostles or disciples? Did He say anywhere in the gospels that a leader of His must be single and celibate?
If what you say is true then why does Paul in I Timothy 3 want married men with familes to be leaders in the church?
I know your church says this but it is an unbilical mandate. It is a doctrine of men.
Then you are contradicting your own Sacred Traditions since even you admit here that the bishop is a husband i.e. a married man.
What i see you doing is rejecting the clear counsel of Scripture on this matter.
If a Roman Catholic man is married and wants to become a priest can he do so while being married?
I’m fully aware of these “exceptions” that you mention. Its my previous one you need to deal with. That is the question that goes to the heart of the matter.
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