Non-Catholics on these boards...

[Heathen_Dawn]

LourdesladyN:

Good Morning HD,

I apologize for being so long in responding. I find your answers interesting, yet still ambiguous.

Hi, I didn’t know you’d made your questions public as well. I’ve answered your e-mail. But since you post it here, I will make my answer public.

Could you please give me a name…this is very important…name
your deity please. Could you give me the history of these deities and the
worship traditions of men and these deities?

I believe in all the Gods and Goddesses in whom mankind has ever believed, such as Zeus, Jupiter, Toutatis, Artemis and Kali. Obviously I don’t worship Them all. I worship two, the Goddess and the God of Wicca, who are the Triple-Moon Goddess and the Horned God.

The word magic MEANS illusion------something we perceive to be there, that
isn’t. ILLUSION. Your tradition using this word makes the faith itself false,
doesn’t it?

The word magic doesn’t mean illusion. Magic is the art and science of causing change in conformity with will (Aleister Crowley’s definition).

These gods of which you speak…How is it that they have this supposed
power over nature?

By Their very nature, since They are Gods. Had They no power over nature, They would not be Gods.

What is the history known to us that this power is
there…or that they even exist?

Please give me some reading material
that is tangible…I’d like to see anything that was written in ancient
Greece or Egypt (3500 BC) that describes events that can be followed by the
tradition of men through today…anything that shows a tangible history
of practice of this specific worship of the above named deity. Also the
foundation by which mankind has seen this specific deities power over nature.

You might want to read the mythologies of the Greeks, Romans, Celts and other people.

Where are the laws of your gods found? When were they written and how were
they transmitted?

They are revealed to those who worship Them. Usually not written, because pagans rarely write things down.

By what authority do they shun you? Who gives them that
power?

By Their authority and power as Gods.

Who created them and how do you know this is true?

They are eternal, uncreated, existing from the beginning of time. I used only to believe it was true, but now I know it is true, for the Goddess and the God have actually revealed Themselves to me.

Blessed be.

 

[milimac]

Thepeug:

Milimac,

Isn’t this explanation closer to an Orthodox understanding of Original Sin, whereby we suffer the consequences of Adam’s sin but do not share the guilt?

In Christ,

Chris

That’s difficult for me to answer. Perhaps someone else can add to this post or we can post in the “Ask the Apologist” section.

I’ll take a stab at it though:

Perhaps like the word “sin”, “guilt” is also used in an analogical sense when it comes to original sin. 404-405 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that “all men are implicated in Adam’s sin” (which seems to imply that we do indeed share in the guilt), but also says “original sin is called ‘sin’ ony in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘commited’ - a state and not an act.” It also says that “original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand”. Like all analogies there’s a point where they break down, so perhaps the analogy I gave before is lacking.

 

[Merilee]

Little Mary:

Welcome, Merilee. I hope you enjoy being here.

Thank you Little Mary; I enjoy visiting these boards.

 

[Quixote]

I might be a catholic. I was baptized a catholic, confirmed and used to take communion. I’ve never been a very “religious” person, spiritual yes, but not religious. I have been blessed with two marriages to wonderful women, both Lutheran. I attend Mass occasionally when with my grandmothers. I am not really sure what to call myself any more. I am fascinated by the history of the Catholic church but generally think that a lot of the churches teachings “don’t hold a lot of water” in comparison to Lutheranism.

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

Dear Catholics,

I hereby publicly apologise for the following post:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=38325&postcount=394

I have crossed the line. I have been insensitive. I have erred.

I will now be posting here less—a lot less. I will post only when I see a thread containing misconceptions about Wicca. As was my original goal in coming here, from which I unfortunately strayed.

PM or e-mail if anyone wants to contact me.

Again, my sincere apologies. Goodbye.

 

[Thepeug]

HD,

I personally don’t see anything wrong with your post. You were simply stating your belief. So you think original sin is a Pauline invention; though I don’t agree, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. What’s the problem?

God bless,

Chris

 

[Thepeug]

milimac:

That’s difficult for me to answer. Perhaps someone else can add to this post or we can post in the “Ask the Apologist” section.

I’ll take a stab at it though:

Perhaps like the word “sin”, “guilt” is also used in an analogical sense when it comes to original sin. 404-405 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that “all men are implicated in Adam’s sin” (which seems to imply that we do indeed share in the guilt), but also says “original sin is called ‘sin’ ony in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘commited’ - a state and not an act.” It also says that “original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand”. Like all analogies there’s a point where they break down, so perhaps the analogy I gave before is lacking.

Milimac,

Thanks for the explanation. I’ll admit that I’m still a bit confused between “implicated” versus “contracted”- as you point out, one seems to imply an act, and the other a state. Perhaps this is a question best addressed to a priest. If I find any additonal explanations, I’ll let you know!

God bless,

Chris

 

[Flower_Charity]

wicca - terrible. I would put this ‘religion’ up there with mormonism. wicca is from the 19th century. who cares about wicca, there are plenty of goofy religons out there. do you get a free bowl of soup if you join?

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

Thepeug:

I personally don’t see anything wrong with your post. You were simply stating your belief. So you think original sin is a Pauline invention; though I don’t agree, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. What’s the problem?

I’m glad you feel that way, but many users complained, and I got a warning, so it means I had offended quite a few people.

Flower_Charity:

I would put this ‘religion’ up there with mormonism.

Wicca doesn’t make historical truth-claims as Mormonism does (OK, it did at first, but most Wiccans have retracted them), and Wiccan leaders don’t manage every aspect of the lives of their followers as Mormon leaders do.

wicca is from the 19th century.

No, it’s from the late 1940s.

do you get a free bowl of soup if you join?

No.

 

[LourdesladyN]

Heathen Dawn:

I believe in all the Gods and Goddesses in whom mankind has ever believed, such as Zeus, Jupiter, Toutatis, Artemis and Kali. Obviously I don’t worship Them all. I worship two, the Goddess and the God of Wicca, who are the Triple-Moon Goddess and the Horned God…

So then you don’t believe there is one truth---------nor one creator------all of these deities of which you speak----------how is it that there are so many different conceptions of worship and history-------why are there so many disagreements in this tradition? Who has the truth?
Heathen Dawn:

By Their very nature, since They are Gods. Had They no power over nature, They would not be Gods.

Please show me some proof that they have power over nature. Your statement is a non sequitur.
Heathen Dawn:

You might want to read the mythologies of the Greeks, Romans, Celts and other people.

I have indeed--------I especially appreciate Tolkein’s explanation of mythology--------it is the telling of God’s story without Christ having been revealed to the author.
Heathen Dawn:

They are revealed to those who worship Them. Usually not written, because pagans rarely write things down.

Your statement is a non sequitur. If you don’t know the gods--------how can you worship them so they will reveal themselves? If you worship them before you know them…How do you know it is these deities that answered you? What is your qualifier for discernment? If great acts of nature come first--------people could erroneously make up a god that could have caused them! If you pray to a thing you are not sure is even there, why would you place authority on this thing that may or may not be there at all? How can you say that this THING caused anything? =)
Heathen Dawn:

By Their authority and power as Gods…

How do you know these speculated deities CAUSED anything?
Heathen Dawn:

They are eternal, uncreated, existing from the beginning of time. I used only to believe it was true, but now I know it is true, for the Goddess and the God have actually revealed Themselves to me.

What are you basing this statement on? How do you know it is not EVIL or an illusion that revealed itself? You have stated you are familiar with Jewish Scripture…How do you know that this is not the same spirit that would see man fall away from the true God?

This entire tradition seems very convulted and feelings based to me. If feelings change -------do you just change dieties? It is also apparent that there is no standard for truth. So you can create your own truth when you create your own god. Doesn’t that mean you are actually worshipping a god that you built?

Be in Truth,

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

LourdesladyN,

I’m afraid the circumstances do not permit me to answer your questions; specifically, I fear crossing the line of promoting one’s own beliefs. Add to that that my faith is a personal affair and needs no defence (except from outright misconceptions), and I see no reason to act as an apologist for it.

Thank you for the conversation. Blessed be.

 

[LourdesladyN]

Heathen Dawn:

I fear crossing the line of promoting one’s own beliefs.

I think you’re safe on this point… I can assert that nothing you have said has promoted your theories in the least.
Heathen Dawn:

Add to that that my faith is a personal affair and needs no defence (except from outright misconceptions), and I see no reason to act as an apologist for it…

There in lies a great difference between paganism and Christianity. With us--------------the joy is so great we HAVE to share it. Thanks for letting me.
Heathen Dawn:

Thank you for the conversation.

Right back atya!

Be in God’s Peace,

 

[Elizabeth]

God bless you Heathen Dawn. You have shown great humility in your public apology. I was not offended by your post as it seemed simply a statement of what you believe, but obviously it crossed some boundary I am not aware of. Your subsequent posts have shown sensitivity and restraint.

I know you have very deeply held beliefs and appear very respectful of others: I could just say God bless you and leave it at that. The thing is, I think your heart would be - I can’t express it well, but - filled up with such a sense of fulfillment if you discovered, knew, Jesus Christ as He really is. It would be a sense of being known and appreciated and RESPECTED just as you are, with all your longings for this world and sensibilities understood profoundly and totally. I think that to know Jesus is to have that ultimate completeness of being KNOWN and being loved as that fully known person.

We have talked a lot about worshipping gods. Worshipping our Lord is most certainly the vital core of our Faith and who we are, what we are made for. But the complement of our worship is the love God has for us and the depth of this love and knowledge of us. If you consider that He is the Creator - our Creator - you find you are deliberately made in your unique way for a purpose and that God made YOU and saw that it (his creation of you) was and is good. You find THE God who will know you and love you and lead you with compassion and tenderness and will not give you any BS! This is liberating and totally exhilarating deep within.

Heathen Dawn, you accept many as gods because cultures throughout history have called them gods. Christians call Jesus Christ God as you know. So I ask you, not for me, really not, but for you, to just ask Him and see if this God whom we worship has not something that the others cannot be and cannot give. If He is not and has not then you will not miss out. If He is, however and your asking is genuine, I can promise He will respond to YOU, as only He can, and then you will know for sure, and have the joy of being known as never before.

May God be with you and the Lord Jesus Christ lead you into all Truth, now and always.

With love in Jesus Christ.

 

[Susanna]

Thepeug:

Awesome explanation, Susanna! You articulated many of my own opinions concerning Genesis and the creation myth that I’ve been trying to figure out for awhile, but haven’t been able to properly verbalize.

God bless,

Chris.

Hi----thanks! My journey back home to the Church was a long arduous one— it took 30 years. During that thirty years I have explored just about everything, Judaism, Protestantism, atheism, agnosticism, paganism — Good Shepherd that he is —our Lord never gave up calling my name-- and I finally heard him–and followed him back home— Thanks be to God!

During those thirty years I learned a lot— and gained valuable insights. Without having had all those experiences I never would have been so certain of what is true— when finally through God’s mercy and grace I rediscovered it about 8 years ago. I can say today in total abandonment to and in certainty of his love-- Jesus is Lord!

 

[Susanna]

Heathen Dawn:

Dear Catholics,

I have crossed the line. I have been insensitive. I have erred.

I will now be posting here less—a lot less. I will post only when I see a thread containing misconceptions about Wicca. As was my original goal in coming here, from which I unfortunately strayed.

PM or e-mail if anyone wants to contact me.

Again, my sincere apologies. Goodbye.

HD— I have never found you offensive! You are very considerate— I, for one have enjoyed reading your comments!

 

[latisha1903]

Bud Stewart:

I hope there are many!

It may show that they are at least open to the True Faith. Perhaps they are just starting their journey home.

If on the other hand, some are here to challenge us, then that to is good. When challenged we may be forced to dig a little deeper for the answer and this will enrich our understanding as well.

Since the Church is the full deposit of faith we can’t be intimidated by questions and challenges of those that are not yet in full communion with us.

I believe that this site is turning out to be a great tool of evangelization, but remember we all must be respectful of those that don’t know the full truth. The faith is best shown through example.

i’m a ‘non-catholic’, i wouldn’t necessarly say that i’m 'open to the “True Faith”, because i’m happy with mine, and more than confident that i’m doing whats right, and where i belong, and i’m def. not here to challenge anyone. really just to observe…guess i stopped that when i replied to post… but i guess i’m really just here, just because. the more we know…so hey i’m just trying to gain all sorta of info…on every aspect in life, or at least that i have access to.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Susanna:

HD— I have never found you offensive! You are very considerate— I, for one have enjoyed reading your comments!

Heathen Dawn had to be warned…why you ask…because he was a witch…after all he turned me into a newt…he did…well I got better.

Just kidding–that’s a bad Monty Python joke. (I was not actually turned into a newt…and no newts were harmed in the telling of this joke.)

Let me add my voice to those who did not find HD offensive. He is, one supposes, entitled to his point of view, even one that hardly anyone on this site could agree with, but having a real modern Pagan on this site provides an intresting voice and perspective. HD sincerely presents his view…and he is more gracious and honest with his facts than many so-called Wiccans and Pagans I have known here in Oregon. I didn’t always find him considerate, but many Christians on this site aren’t always very considerate either…it probably comes with the territory in this medium.

We should continue to debate and learn from each other. Especially on the Non-Catholic Religion forum.

May God’s peace continue to be with us all.

 

[GloriaDeo]

A Baptist here.

 

[Thepeug]

Welcome, Gloria! I’m a Protestant, too (Episcopalian). I hope you enjoy these boards as much as I have!

In Christ,

Chris

 

[Little_Mary]

latisha1903:

i’m a ‘non-catholic’, i wouldn’t necessarly say that i’m 'open to the “True Faith”, because i’m happy with mine, and more than confident that i’m doing whats right, and where i belong, and i’m def. not here to challenge anyone. really just to observe…guess i stopped that when i replied to post… but i guess i’m really just here, just because. the more we know…so hey i’m just trying to gain all sorta of info…on every aspect in life, or at least that i have access to.

Awesome! Gain all the info you can. The Truth always rises to the top!!:yup: