NON-traditional Tridentine Mass?

[MrS]

cainem:

i’m not unwilling to learn latin, i dont have the time with 1 wife 3 children ( perhaps one more on the way) and 2 jobs to support them in between being the handy man at our parish, free time for learning is a luxury i dont have, i’m sure there are other young parents in the same situation

Perhaps your position at the parish will allow for a discount on a simple appropriate missal. You need not learn conversant latin to understand when the Latin and the English are side by side.

As for young parents… our parish is blessed with over 150 home schooled Catholics from young families like yours… all of whom find the time for God-things. Then He finds the time for the rest.

God bless you for your openness to children. I have seven sons… who in turn have 17 and 1/2 children of their own. Having children is the luxury.

 

[shannon_e]

jtnova:

I am not judging anyone who attends the Novus Ordo, as that would be calumny, but there is nothing sacred, nothing religious, nothing pius, nothing that came from our Lord that is part of this travesty that you call a Mass

Mr. S,
Do you condone these remarks?

Peace.

 

[cainem]

MrS:

Perhaps your position at the parish will allow for a discount on a simple appropriate missal. You need not learn conversant latin to understand when the Latin and the English are side by side.

As for young parents… our parish is blessed with over 150 home schooled Catholics from young families like yours… all of whom find the time for God-things. Then He finds the time for the rest.

God bless you for your openness to children. I have seven sons… who in turn have 17 and 1/2 children of their own. Having children is the luxury.

not sure of the legality of home schooling here in scotland, we have state catholic education, if the catholic primary schools were to introduce latin as a compulsory subject then perhaps that would help bridge a few gaps

 

[MrS]

shannon e:

Mr. S,
Do you condone these remarks?

Peace.

nope… I ignored them till you asked

 

[MrS]

cainem:

not sure of the legality of home schooling here in scotland, we have state catholic education, if the catholic primary schools were to introduce latin as a compulsory subject then perhaps that would help bridge a few gaps

sorry… did not know…I had looked at your background info… and did not know you were from Scotland

 

[terrcatholic]

No, I grew up in an old time neighborhood full of old time Italian, Irish and Polish and the changes came a bit after. But I remember as a little boy going up to the altar rail, and my mother reading to me the church bulletin explaining the changes, and how confused I was as a little boy, I can only imagine the youngsters of today with all that is going on how confused. The people did not complain as they knew very little and when I asked why, I remember being told “because the Pope said so”. But when you grow up and become more educated than your parents, you learn that there is more to it than that and you wonder…

MrS:

For someone born during the Vat II, you have good insight… were you born with your eyes open?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

(this is where you say, No, God has opened themhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif)

 

[MrS]

terrcatholic:

No, I grew up in an old time neighborhood full of old time Italian, Irish and Polish and the changes came a bit after. But I remember as a little boy going up to the altar rail, and my mother reading to me the church bulletin explaining the changes, and how confused I was as a little boy, I can only imagine the youngsters of today with all that is going on how confused. The people did not complain as they knew very little and when I asked why, I remember being told “because the Pope said so”. But when you grow up and become more educated than your parents, you learn that there is more to it than that and you wonder…

Did you realize, in growing up, that the old time Italians, Irish, and Polish were willing to learn about the church…oops, countryhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif, they they came into… rather than try to change the country (except for Don Vito) under the guise of progessivism?

Altar rails… cool, huh. As a recent, crowded TLM, two priests gave communion to about 600 … and using an altar rail they didn’t even require EMHC to finish in the same time frame. Go figure…

 

[terrcatholic]

I know it is beautiful, that is because the people are already there and kneeling and not walking up to receive which takes time. I go to as many independent TLM’s that I can get to with my wife and family as it is so reflective, and easy to follow once you go about 4 or 5 times. There is only one Indult which is in Brooklyn NY and none in Queens or Long Island. Many I know go to the dreaded place that I understand is not allowed to be discussed here on this board.

MrS:

Did you realize, in growing up, that the old time Italians, Irish, and Polish were willing to learn about the church…oops, countryhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif, they they came into… rather than try to change the country (except for Don Vito) under the guise of progessivism?

Altar rails… cool, huh. As a recent, crowded TLM, two priests gave communion to about 600 … and using an altar rail they didn’t even require EMHC to finish in the same time frame. Go figure…

 

[katherine2]

MrS:

Did you realize, in growing up, that the old time Italians, Irish, and Polish were willing to learn about the church…oops, countryhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif, they they came into… rather than try to change the country (except for Don Vito) under the guise of progessivism?

You don’t know your history bucko. My daddy was a precinct captain and he got an 80% vote for Rooselvelt and the New Deal out of those Irish, Italian and Polish neighborhoods. The plus Sidney Hillman helping with the Jewish vote and we changed the country!!!1

 

[Franciscum]

cainem:

if the tlm was reintroduced tomorrow how would it’s supporters suggest the non latin speaking majority follow it? perhaps large screens for subtitles above the altar, if you want to retain todays and tomorrows catholics stop slagging off the n,o mass and stop trying to force what is rarely taught in most inner city schools onto people unless what you want is ‘the right type of people through your doors’

Very few used to follow the Mass in Latin. Many were praying the Rosary or focusing on the stained glass.

Then again, many of these Masses went for only 35-45 minutes in most cases…

 

[shannon_e]

I would like to find a reverent TLM in my area. (As long as I have a Missal with both Eng. and Latin.) I do think it would be beautiful.

Maybe this is a lame analogy but I view the Latin at the TLM in the same way as I view singing the Our Father at a NO.

It makes you look at the prayer you pray everyday, with new eyes. It makes your brain be more conscious of what it’s doing.

Peace.

 

[katherine2]

Very few used to follow the Mass in Latin. Many were praying the Rosary or focusing on the stained glass.

Then again, many of these Masses went for only 35-45 minutes in most cases…

True. And those of us who did try to follow it in Latin were considered crazy liberals. Of course, if you went further and attended a Dialogue Mass, you were a total wacked out commie pinko.

 

[bear06]

terrcatholic:

I just read the link that you sent in defence of the New Mass, and I must say it is full of holes. First off, the author did not include the entire Papal Bull -Quo Primium, instead he cut and pasted and took words from the Bull out of context. One of his main arguments is that in the Bull, any mass that for 200 Years existed before1570, may be used with approval. As far as I can recall, the Novus Ordo mass was put into place in 1970, 400 YEARS AFTER the Bull. Also, the author seemed to purposly leave out the language at the end of the Bull which forbade any mortal to touch the mass.

Dont forget, as Saint Pope Pius V was writing this Bull, as was the intent of the Council of Trent, was to Re-Affirm Catholic teachings, which had been severely distorted by the Reformation and there were all sorts of missals and papers flying all over Europe. The Mass was not invented or revised at the Council by Pope Pius IV, but clarified by him and later codified by St Pius V, which is the intent of every Council, to clarify and expand on existing church teachings and doctrine, not to reinvent new doctrine, which can fall under heresy, which I am not in a position to say that Pope Paul VI is in or John XXIII for that matter.

The defence centers around trying to poke holes into Quo Primium and it fails at that. It then goes into the Ottavani Intervention, and the author states that he agrees with the Cardinal, but that the Cardinal was reading an unfinished draft of the mass in 1969. How much difference does that make and is it even true?

He then goes into the translations, which is sort of like talking about Bill Clinton and what the definition of “is” is. Why could not the translations have been done to the satisfaction of these Cardinals? Do they not have a say? I could sympathize with much of the anger some of these Traditionalist feel, even better after reading this defence, which I never read before and is full of holes.

This does not mean I do not follow what His Holiness says, as he is our Leader and we can not disobey, but I do think after reading this, that some serious questions need to be answered, some 40 years after the fact. Maybe our next Pope can unite the Left and the Right, because right now it seems as if only the Left has any voice.

How about reading this? ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/QUOPIUS.HTM

Also, a good read would be Pastor Aeternus found here.

ewtn.com/library/councils/v1.htm#6

 

[MrS]

katherine2:

You don’t know your history bucko. My daddy was a precinct captain and he got an 80% vote for Rooselvelt and the New Deal out of those Irish, Italian and Polish neighborhoods. The plus Sidney Hillman helping with the Jewish vote and we changed the country!!!1

bucko? and are you a buckee?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Wow… they “changed” the country using the country’s rules.

And my granddaddy, an Italian immigrant was proud to work hard to become an American. He had to renounce his king of Italy to pledge allegiance to this country. I don’t think he considered getting the country to pledge allegiance to him.http://forums.catholic-questions.or...atholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[terrcatholic]

Thank you bear will do, EWTN is a great source, I love Father Corpai and Web of Faith. The author that was sent to me did not formulate his answers correctly it seemed

bear06:

How about reading this? ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/QUOPIUS.HTM

Also, a good read would be Pastor Aeternus found here.

ewtn.com/library/councils/v1.htm#6

 

[katherine2]

MrS:

bucko? and are you a buckee?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

I’m the buckee of your worst nightmares

And my granddaddy

, an Italian immigrant was proud to work hard to become an American. He had to renounce his king of Italy to pledge allegiance to this country. I don’t think he considered getting the country to pledge allegiance to him.http://forums.catholic-questions.or...atholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
hmmm. If was a good Catholic, he would have never had any allegience to the King of Italy, as Catholics were required by Pio Nono after Savoy’s illegal invasion of the papal states.

 

[Franciscum]

katherine2:

True. And those of us who did try to follow it in Latin were considered crazy liberals. Of course, if you went further and attended a Dialogue Mass, you were a total wacked out commie pinko.

Careful. You could cause the neo-con’s heads to explode…

 

[MrS]

katherine2:

I’m the buckee of your worst nightmares

hmmm. If was a good Catholic, he would have never had any allegience to the King of Italy, as Catholics were required by Pio Nono after Savoy’s illegal invasion of the papal states.
Guess you don’t know your history buckeehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

The formality of citizenship for gramps was set by this country, not Italy.

“If he was a good Catholic…” How dare you. Hope you make a new year’s resolution to use more brain cells before you type.

 

[Franciscum]

MrS:

Perhaps your position at the parish will allow for a discount on a simple appropriate missal. You need not learn conversant latin to understand when the Latin and the English are side by side.

As for young parents… our parish is blessed with over 150 home schooled Catholics from young families like yours… all of whom find the time for God-things. Then He finds the time for the rest.

God bless you for your openness to children. I have seven sons… who in turn have 17 and 1/2 children of their own. Having children is the luxury.

No blessings from young Catholics attending public or private schools?

Here we go again…

 

[MrS]

Franciscum:

No blessings** from** young Catholics attending public or private schools?

Here we go again…

so you still want to be picky huh?

if you have nothing to do, go back and read some of the related posts concerning this particular topic. We were doing just fine till you buttheaded in.