Northern Ireland's IRA activity

[_Joshua]

Fitz:

I am confused about the report. These people were framed and they are still in prison? Or do you think they had guilt, but received too harsh a punishment?

Well Fitz I’m working from memory here, and I do remember it being on the news here.
What happened is the UVF loyalist volunteer force in order to save face has to say that the Miami showband were terrioists, they were totally innocent men out to earn a living playing gigs in the North. They were killed because they were Catholics, and being from the Republic, well that was a bigger scalp.
This was common practice on both sides to explain away murder, that is probably what your having problems understanding in the report.
On both sides it’s been bad, there was the case of a man in Belfast kneeling down saying his Rosary in the livingroom, when a gunman shot him through the head.
Another case was a young man about 17 sleeping on his couch, when gunmen rushed in and shot him dead, hate hate hate, all the fruits of hate, there have been loads, I’ve forgotten more than most know.

The news was just the same to me everyday, I used to come home from work to watch the news to see what was blown up today, or who was shot dead, in the end I got that I did’nt turn on the news.

I don’t enjoy any problems in Ireland. I think it is a wonderful place, yet I do fear visiting the North. I know it stems from old problems. I am sorry about the bank heist. Do you think that it was an inside job?

I’m not sure if it was an inside job, no-matter it isn’t helping, it’s only gives those that want a new aggreement more armour.
Well from what you read it sure is hard to persuade people to come here, but the Irish do treat members from other countries with respect, (pity they can’t treat each-other the same way).
I have met a few people here from the US but mostly visitors go to the Republic, thats too bad.
Believe me the North of Ireland has changed from what I grew up in as a child, it’s very safe for visitors here now, especially in the North west of the province.
I’ve been to Belfast loads of times, but there is someone new on this forum from Belfast, so I’ll let him/her speak for their locality.

We have had relative peace here for over 10 years, and long may it remain, and things like bank robberies don’t help one bit.

Don’t be afraid to come here, it’s very safe, (no laughing) I guarantee you’d like it.

In Belfast they do a tour of all the City, but I’ve never been on it, (no interest) to me to see where someone was shot or blown up.
I have my own bombed out beat in my own area, then again most of the north have them.

 

[Franze]

(Joshua):

Some people just don’t get it, it doesn’t matter now if there is a united Ireland or not, we’re governed by Brussels now.

Governments have lost their authority, the reasons for unification has deminished some what, like all the conflict for which I lived through was a complete waste of time.

One step forward and two steps back, I don’t support terrorism but I do support justice, because without justice there will be no peace.
Things have changed a lot over in the north, we have more freedom, now we can apply for jobs where before we couldn’t.

Like Birmingham Alabama blacks need not apply, well over here in the small print it read, Catholics need not apply.
And I believe it wasn’t too savory in Boston years ago with the Irish told not to apply.

I know where this thread is heading like all things Irish, up the creek without a paddle.
Irish affairs turn people on this forum into people less than Christian.
My fight now is for aborted babies and thats a cause worth fighting for, because it saves lives instead of taking them.

I don´t want many laws about catholic although in UK, like the impossibilty to be the queen or the king a catholic and yes a muslim or a atheist, but I think that IRA( that have killed two spanish in 1998) was an organisation that made very bad things, the british opression in Nothern Ireland was strong but it deserves to kill for it
I am agree with a palestinian state and a united ireland but the terrorism makes me being more near with UK and Israel.
The most important battle now, is the battle against secularism that was destroy meanings like freedom, tolerance and other things and are producing in works of death killings in abortion, euthanasia, we have a huge work, teaching the people what is the human dignity, that we have, everybody to fight for it and we have to practise. It´s a lot of work because we don´t want more Auschwitz, concentration camps where there aren´t survivors, greetings

 

[condan]

mlchance:

And IRA terrorists who have blown up women and children don’t mock the Pope as well?

I pray for Ireland to be freed from both sides of this bloody conflict.

– Mark L. Chance.

The IRA have traditionally targeted military installations. They do not consider themselves to be terrorists and were an organized army during the Irish civil war (Michael Collins, et al).

The British have been murdering Irish women and children since the Battle of the Boyne. (Well before, actually but who’s counting?) The famine, with the Brits exporting beef, lamb and grain while millions died with green mouths from eating grass comes quickly to mind.

 

[Linda_H]

Fitz:

Like perhaps he wants to derail the progress? Or do you think he was in on the heist?

To be honest I have considered both, and it wouldn’t be the first time that “law enforcement personel” have been part of something like this. Look at the news story that Joshua provided. He just sounds way to passionate about this, the phrase that keeps coming to my mind about him is “me thinks he doth protest to much”.
Linda H.

 

[Norwich]

The IRA have traditionally targeted military installations. They do not consider themselves to be terrorists and were an organized army during the Irish civil war (Michael Collins, et al).

The British have been murdering Irish women and children since the Battle of the Boyne. (Well before, actually but who’s counting?) The famine, with the Brits exporting beef, lamb and grain while millions died with green mouths from eating grass comes quickly to mind.

Tell that to the people of Omagh, or Inneskillen or Belfast City Centre. You’re talking rot and obviously know nothng about the reality of NI.

Try listening to Joshua, someone who has lived through the troubles (as I have) and knows the wrongs ON BOTH SIDES.

The vast majority, the so called silent majority, on both sides of the divide simply want to live their lives in peace. It is this sort of mindless rhetoric sounding of about happenings so far in the past as to be irrelevant that creates the tensions that exist today.

United Ireland? yes, but that will be decided by demographics, not bullets or bombs or politics or church, simply the overall majority of people WHO LIVE IN IRELAND that decide they want a united Ireland.

It’s time people from other lands realised enough harm has been done and their constant hanging onto to something that no longer exists and belongs in a time long ago simply serves to hand bullets and guns to those, society is trying to sideline.

STOP the nonsense, STOP the carping about things of which you know nothing, and allow the people of NI and the Free State to make their own decisions about their own lives!!!

 

[_Joshua]

Franze:

I don´t want many laws about catholic although in UK, like the impossibilty to be the queen or the king a catholic and yes a muslim or a atheist, but I think that IRA( that have killed two spanish in 1998) was an organisation that made very bad things, the british opression in Nothern Ireland was strong but it deserves to kill for it

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/omagh/main.htm

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/northern_ireland/2000/the_omagh_bomb/default.stm

Well Franze that was a terrible day in Omagh when a lot of innocent people were bombed to bits.
Yes I remember that terrible day in August, I was in London at the time with my wife and children visiting my brother inlaw.
Franz the IRA were actually on ceasefire the time of the bomb, it was dissadents that carried it out, (those members of the IRA that will not give up the struggle).
Regardless of who ever done it, murder is murder, with the bad information coming to the police, they actually moved the people down into the area of the bomb.
I’m not blaming the police, just telling you what happened, the police didn’t know what car the bomb was in, so mistakenly moved the people to their deaths.
I was heartbroken to hear of those two Spanish visitors to our country, it’s bad enough my own country men and women, but innocent visitors, some of them children is hard to swallow.

 

[_Joshua]

Linda H.:

Look at the news story that Joshua provided. He just sounds way to passionate about this, the phrase that keeps coming to my mind about him is “me thinks he doth protest to much”.
Linda H.

Linda H, can you elaborate on your statement, please.

 

[_Joshua]

condan:

The IRA have traditionally targeted military installations. They do not consider themselves to be terrorists and were an organized army during the Irish civil war (Michael Collins, et al).

The British have been murdering Irish women and children since the Battle of the Boyne. (Well before, actually but who’s counting?) The famine, with the Brits exporting beef, lamb and grain while millions died with green mouths from eating grass comes quickly to mind.

True Condon, it was the British that gave birth to the IRA, with their great british empire, well it’s not so great now.
True also about the Irish eating grass because the greedy british landlords were taking all their money in rent. Many left these shores for the USA Boston as I’m sure you all know, many also didn’t make it accross the ocean, and were buried at sea.
The british starved our children to death, what about that mlchance ? don’t those children count.
The Irish were an oppressed people, by the british for far too long, what do people expect us to do lie down and be walked over, Michael Collins didn’t nor Wolftone, nor will future generations of Irish ever let Britain walk over us.

 

[FightingFat]

Norwich:

Tell that to the people of Omagh, or Inneskillen or Belfast City Centre. You’re talking rot and obviously know nothng about the reality of NI.

Try listening to Joshua, someone who has lived through the troubles (as I have) and knows the wrongs ON BOTH SIDES.

The vast majority, the so called silent majority, on both sides of the divide simply want to live their lives in peace. It is this sort of mindless rhetoric sounding of about happenings so far in the past as to be irrelevant that creates the tensions that exist today.

United Ireland? yes, but that will be decided by demographics, not bullets or bombs or politics or church, simply the overall majority of people WHO LIVE IN IRELAND that decide they want a united Ireland.

It’s time people from other lands realised enough harm has been done and their constant hanging onto to something that no longer exists and belongs in a time long ago simply serves to hand bullets and guns to those, society is trying to sideline.

Great post.
The trouble is only proliferated by those intent on proliferating it.

 

[FightingFat]

(Joshua):

nor will future generations of Irish ever let Britain walk over us.

True in that Ireland and the Irish have finally found our self respect, but realistically, Britain has absolutely no design on Ireland (they’re ‘giving away’ Scotland and Wales through devolution) and would rather be shot of the whole problem. It’s not a Britain/ Ireland problem, it’s a Unionist/ IRA problem as far as I can make out.

 

[_Joshua]

Linda H.:

To be honest I have considered both, and it wouldn’t be the first time that “law enforcement personel” have been part of something like this. Look at the news story that Joshua provided. He just sounds way to passionate about this, the phrase that keeps coming to my mind about him is “me thinks he doth protest to much”.
Linda H.

Don’t know what you mean " I protest too much" I’m just passing on stories of what happened, as for me Linda H, I have no time for the british establishment.
We wre tortured by the so called security forces and those nice RUC, not surprising since 98 % of the security forces were protestant. What right does a foreign country have to be in Ireland, a land that is dear to a lot of American hearts and the world over ? none.
Whenever we gave our name that was enough to be kept at a check point for hours on end.
I’m not protesting the IRA, we had the Official IRA in 1969 and before, but in the early 70’s the Provisional IRA were established after a rift over tactics.
In war people die, many call the IRA terriorists, they call themselves an army.
Maggie Thatcher eventually admitted that they Britain were at war with the IRA, it was the british that caused all this in the first place.
They planted the bad seed, they tried to plant seeds in the USA too.
The war of Independence wasn’t exactly bloodless, if the USA bore arms, do the Irish people not have the right to bear arms too ?
It’s so easy to critize when you live in another place, but to actually live here is something else, but Ireland has moved into a different mode.
We have relative peace, it’s not perfect, but it’s better than what we had before, but we still aren’t united.
Britain is still here, Linda H I don’t know the truth about who carried out the bank robbery, it amazes me though that Hugh Orde rushed to judgement.
And Bertie Ahern the Irish Primeminister isn’t exactly helping the situation with his public speeches, saying he believes Sein Feinn knew the IRA were going to carry out the robbery.

Sein Feinn’s Gerry Adams and Martin Mc’Guinness are meeting Ahern in Dublin today Tuesday, it should be interesting.
Some say the bank robbery was carried out by dissident republicians in order to de-rail the so called peace process, I don’t know Linda, you know as much as me.
You know why they’re blaming the IRA for the bank robbery ? because they say no other organization in the North of Ireland has the intelligence to do it, other than the IRA, thats the assumption they’re making, (not exactly watertight evidence to go to court on).

Linda H, have you ever been to Ireland ?

 

[_Joshua]

Norwich:

Tell that to the people of Omagh, or Inneskillen or Belfast City Centre. You’re talking rot and obviously know nothng about the reality of NI.

Well Norwich, with all due respect, anyone can say this statement, like" try telling that to the Irish women and children as Condon said, that had to eat grass.
Oh yes eat grass, even though it gave them terrible pains in their stomach, while the greedy british landlords lived off the fat of the land.
Try telling that to the people that Britain sent over, oliver Cromwell comes to mind, he murdered, burnt our Churches, but maybe that doesn’t count.
Oh yes Norwich, " try telling that" is a pretty broad statement, it can be used both ways and doesn’t get to the crux of the problem.

Have you ever heard the song " The fields of Athenry" ? sung by Paddy Reilly, well it’s about a man that is waiting to be executed by the British, his crime being that he stole corn from the greedy landlords to feed his wife & children.
You can listen to it here, netsoc.ucd.ie/~justy/athenry.html after listening to that song, and then have to ask why was there ever an IRA, then I’m afraid you’ll never know.

 

[_Joshua]

mlchance:

And IRA terrorists who have blown up women and children don’t mock the Pope as well?

Mark L. Chance.

Have a little think about it mlchane, any place else in the world where innocent children are dying, for a just cause, I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.
What would you say about those ? I’ll preempt you here, " no two wrongs don’t make a right".

 

[mlchance]

condan:

The IRA have traditionally targeted military installations.

The IRA has also traditionally detonated bombs in public streets, killing women and children. For example, on Monday, July 31, 1972, when the IRA set off their bomb that day, nine civilians were killed, including a 9-year-old girl.

I’m guessing Kathryn Eakin was a collaborator?

Regardless what the British have done or the IRA considers themselves, they’re terrorists.
(Joshua):

The british starved our children to death, what about that mlchance ? don’t those children count. The Irish were an oppressed people, by the british for far too long, what do people expect us to do lie down and be walked over…

I expect people not to detonate bombs in streets in order to kill women and children. Is that too much to ask for? Do such things magically fill empty stomachs?

It’s funny. Just a few posts ago, you were saying that anyone who murders mocks God. And, yet, now you and others seem to actually be defending murder. Which is it?

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Norwich]

(Joshua):

Well Norwich, with all due respect, anyone can say this statement, like" try telling that to the Irish women and children as Condon said, that had to eat grass.
Oh yes eat grass, even though it gave them terrible pains in their stomach, while the greedy british landlords lived off the fat of the land.
Try telling that to the people that Britain sent over, oliver Cromwell comes to mind, he murdered, burnt our Churches, but maybe that doesn’t count.
Oh yes Norwich, " try telling that" is a pretty broad statement, it can be used both ways and doesn’t get to the crux of the problem.

Have you ever heard the song " The fields of Athenry" ? sung by Paddy Reilly, well it’s about a man that is waiting to be executed by the British, his crime being that he stole corn from the greedy landlords to feed his wife & children.
You can listen to it here, netsoc.ucd.ie/~justy/athenry.html after listening to that song, and then have to ask why was there ever an IRA, then I’m afraid you’ll never know.

You and I both know why there was an IRA. from 1918 and the uprising in Dublin through to Omagh at the latest, but you and I also know that Ireland simply wants peace. Now if that peace is denied by the UVF the IRA , Paisley or any of them it effects all of us. It’s not a case of partisanship or supporting Orange or Green, its not a case of them and us, and it shouldn’t be a case of what happened in the past. Of course we all know of the famine, we were bought up to remember, it’s in our heritage, our songs, our memory and our hearts,but, where it shouldn’t be is in our dealings with other from the North, Orange or Green, Prod. or Popist, from North Ward, South Ward or Bogside. Yes I’ve been hassled many times by the “B” Specials and the police, like all of us but, if somebody doesn’t make the first move and KEEP ON MOVING nothing will be solved and the troubles as we knew them will be visited on our children and our childrens children and that is not the heritage I want for my family.

Before you judge, think, I am as Irish as you are, born in Dublin, Catholic, with most of my family from Omagh. Some of them were very very close to losing their lives when that bomb went of and, also remember the time that bomb was set for was when the childrens parade was due on Main Street, the fact that the parade was late and still assembling on Bridge Street was either shear chance or a wonderful act of God. So my feelings on this bomb may well be somewhat coloured. Never the less this one act does not condemn the whole IRA but it is time to move on, it is time to let the political process have a chance. Yes, I know the thinking about the bank raid and I like many don’t accept all the ridiculous accusations at face value, I think there is something wrong somewhere but, I also think that the truth will out and those that are trying to make political capital will be shown to be what they are, opportunists and probably liars and then the judgement of the people of the North on their behaviour will be even more severe. Let them make all the accusations they like, the truth (as Jesus said) will set you free.

 

[condan]

Norwich:

Tell that to the people of Omagh, or Inneskillen or Belfast City Centre. You’re talking rot and obviously know nothng about the reality of NI.

Try listening to Joshua, someone who has lived through the troubles (as I have) and knows the wrongs ON BOTH SIDES.

The vast majority, the so called silent majority, on both sides of the divide simply want to live their lives in peace. It is this sort of mindless rhetoric sounding of about happenings so far in the past as to be irrelevant that creates the tensions that exist today.

United Ireland? yes, but that will be decided by demographics, not bullets or bombs or politics or church, simply the overall majority of people WHO LIVE IN IRELAND that decide they want a united Ireland.

It’s time people from other lands realised enough harm has been done and their constant hanging onto to something that no longer exists and belongs in a time long ago simply serves to hand bullets and guns to those, society is trying to sideline.

STOP the nonsense, STOP the carping about things of which you know nothing, and allow the people of NI and the Free State to make their own decisions about their own lives!!!

How about not being able to get a job because of the church you attend?
How about little girls being showered with feces on their way to school?
Are all people in NI treated fairly TODAY?
Have the loyalists ever committed an atrocity?

People would stop talking about the past if only it would stop happening today. The overwhelming majority of people living in Ireland decided long ago that they wanted a united Ireland. Your people simply won’t let it happen. They keep hanging on to their last piece of the empire.

 

[mlchance]

[The English]
keep hanging on to their last piece of the empire.

Hear, hear!

While nothing justifies the IRA’s deliberate targeting of civilians, especially women and children, it is well past time for London to let Ireland be governed wholly by the Irish.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[condan]

mlchance:

Hear, hear!

While nothing justifies the IRA’s deliberate targeting of civilians, especially women and children, it is well past time for London to let Ireland be governed wholly by the Irish.

– Mark L. Chance.

I’ve got to agree with you on that one.

 

[Norwich]

mlchance:

Hear, hear!

While nothing justifies the IRA’s deliberate targeting of civilians, especially women and children, it is well past time for London to let Ireland be governed wholly by the Irish.

– Mark L. Chance.

I have no argument with that and I agree, the sooner Ireland belongs to the Irish the better but, that means ALL the Irish. Whether we like it or not there is a proportion of Irish in the North who may be of Scottish descent and may go to a different Church but they are now Irish. Many of their families have lived in Ireland longer than a lot of American families have lived in America, they are Irish. All the fighting and bickering that has gone on has done nothing to heal the wounds of the past, and it is to the future we must look, not the past. Brits out? yes, but before you can do that you have to ensure those who are suspicious of the Catholics, who are afraid of losing their identity are reassured and confident that they can carry on their life as they wish, worship in their own church as they would wish and be confident that their children and childrens children have a future in the country that they probably love as much as we do.

That is the challenge for the future, and I would suggest most Catholics and Protestants I know are well up for it, they welcome others with open arms and are willing to accept that they have their own lives and ways. Sadly some do not, on both sides,and it is these people who stand in the way of peace and ultimately a united Ireland. If you want the Brits out then ALL of Ireland, Catholic and Protestant have to agree and the only way you will do that is when ALL of them recognise themselves as Irish first and whatever else last, and you can’t do that when your fighting each other.

 

[FightingFat]

Norwich:

I have no argument with that and I agree, the sooner Ireland belongs to the Irish the better but, that means ALL the Irish. Whether we like it or not there is a proportion of Irish in the North who may be of Scottish descent and may go to a different Church but they are now Irish. Many of their families have lived in Ireland longer than a lot of American families have lived in America, they are Irish.

I think that’s the problem Norwich. My wifes family on her Fathers side are from Belfast and from speaking to them I have found that they think they are British, in fact, more British than most British people I know!

Norwich:

All the fighting and bickering that has gone on has done nothing to heal the wounds of the past, and it is to the future we must look, not the past. Brits out? yes,

Wouldn’t you agree that that is where they want to be?