Northern Ireland's IRA activity

[Linda_H]

(Joshua):

Don’t know what you mean " I protest too much" I’m just passing on stories of what happened, as for me Linda H,
Linda H, have you ever been to Ireland ?

Joshua dear, I wasn’t refering to you, I was saying that about Hugh Orde. Now to your question, have I ever been to Ireland, no, I haven’t, and before you dismiss me please read on, I have had to cancel no less than 3 seperate trips to the home of my ancestors due to medical emergencies. My great-grandfather, John McCarthy came to the U.S. in the late 1890’s, and ever since I was a child I have been a avid supporter of a free Ireland. I have followed every news story, and have spend many hours in conversation with other supporters here in the U.S… I know this must sound like a lot of hot air to you, but what I am trying to get across is this, my heart and my prayers are for a free Ireland, and the absolute end of the British occupation of Northern Ireland. I don’t have to be there to be able to smell the sink of a smear campaign against the IRA or SF. That smell travels clear across the atlantic ocean, they always do.
Linda H.

 

[_Joshua]

Linda H.:

Joshua dear, I wasn’t refering to you, I was saying that about Hugh Orde.
Linda H.

Oh sooooh !! sorry Linda Dear, your post wasn’t clear :bowdown: Ok can I get off my knees now ?

 

[_Joshua]

mlchance:

It’s funny. Just a few posts ago, you were saying that anyone who murders mocks God. And, yet, now you and others seem to actually be defending murder. Which is it?

– Mark L. Chance.

It isn’t funny at all, what I’m saying is this, and I was told this in religious class many years ago.
If someone is going to take your life you have the right to defend it, I detest all murder, but like I said previous post ago, without justice there will be no peace.
Thats true where-ever we are in the world, the IRA always gave a recognized code word when the phoned bombs into the local newsrooms.
But tragicially children were killed, most of the IRA targets were economicial, and sometimes it was the military.
I’m not defending murder, but we have to look deep to find out the real reasons why there was and still is an IRA.

It’s because England took our land, they’re occupying us, is Ireland occupying England ? I don’t think so.

So stop assuming you know my mind with, now you and others seem to actually defending murder, Which is it ?
I’m not defending murder, I hate all killing, especially taking the life of innocent children.

What about your own war now mlchance, where do you stand in relation to it ?

 

[Faustina]

Norwich:

Tell that to the people of Omagh, or Inneskillen or Belfast City Centre. You’re talking rot and obviously know nothng about the reality of NI.

Try listening to Joshua, someone who has lived through the troubles (as I have) and knows the wrongs ON BOTH SIDES.

The vast majority, the so called silent majority, on both sides of the divide simply want to live their lives in peace. It is this sort of mindless rhetoric sounding of about happenings so far in the past as to be irrelevant that creates the tensions that exist today.

United Ireland? yes, but that will be decided by demographics, not bullets or bombs or politics or church, simply the overall majority of people WHO LIVE IN IRELAND that decide they want a united Ireland.

It’s time people from other lands realised enough harm has been done and their constant hanging onto to something that no longer exists and belongs in a time long ago simply serves to hand bullets and guns to those, society is trying to sideline.

STOP the nonsense, STOP the carping about things of which you know nothing, and allow the people of NI and the Free State to make their own decisions about their own lives!!!

Just remember your own piece of advice when you talking about problems in the USA.

 

[Faustina]

Linda H.:

Now to your question, have I ever been to Ireland, no, I haven’t, and before you dismiss me please read on, I have had to cancel no less than 3 seperate trips to the home of my ancestors due to medical emergencies. My great-grandfather, John McCarthy came to the U.S. in the late 1890’s, and ever since I was a child I have been a avid supporter of a free Ireland. I have followed every news story, and have spend many hours in conversation with other supporters here in the U.S… I know this must sound like a lot of hot air to you, but what I am trying to get across is this, my heart and my prayers are for a free Ireland, and the absolute end of the British occupation of Northern Ireland. I don’t have to be there to be able to smell the sink of a smear campaign against the IRA or SF. That smell travels clear across the atlantic ocean, they always do.
Linda H.

I agree about the stink of a smear campaign.

Hey, Linda H. you and I live somewhat close, you wanna plan an invasion of Ireland?

 

[NightRider]

(Joshua),

**I’ve not been to Fermanagh but I’ve been to Belfast and Derry and loved it immensely! Was over on a two week trip in 1998 and only spent one night in Dublin and all the rest in the North. The North is beautiful and the people are fantastic. My son and I walked all over the place and when we weren’t walking we took the Black Taxis. We had a grand time and I want to return again. **

---

Tiocfaidh ar la!

---

~Geraldine

 

[mlchance]

(Joshua):

If someone is going to take your life you have the right to defend it…

So whose life was Kathryn Eakin threatening? What about the other eight civilians killed by that bomb? Detonated in a public place when it was sure to kill civilians? Were they are all threatening someone’s life?

How about February 17, 1978, when the IRA detonated an incendiary device against the facade of a Belfast hotel? Twelve civilians died in the resulting fire, including seven women. All of those killed were married, and seven of the twelve had children. Given the placement of the bomb, there can be no doubt that the IRA intended to kill civilians.

How about September 11, 1975, when IRA gunmen burst into what was basically a church-club meeting and opened fire? (Sounds a lot like Islamist terrorists attacking a synagogue, eh?) The IRA killed five men, one of whom was 80-years-old. All of them were civilians, which the IRA surely knew.

How about one of the rare times murderous IRA terrorists actually worked up the gumption to strike a military target? On February 22, 1972, the IRA detonated a bomb outside an officers’ mess, killing one solider (a chaplain) and five civilian women and one civilian man.

Were the civilians killed in this “brave” military strike against a chaplain just acceptable collateral damage?
(Joshua):

What about your own war now mlchance, where do you stand in relation to it ?

Check out the definition of “non sequitur.”

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[_Joshua]

mlchance:

Check out the definition of “non sequitur.”

– Mark L. Chance.

I’m checking out nada, you pick and choose who you want to condemn, next time you want to condemn, have a good look in the mirror.

I’m pro-life and not pro war, and I’m pro defend myself.

You still haven’t answered my question, stop side stepping it, cherry picking as we call it over here, call a spade a spade.

Or in otherwords tell the truth and shame the devil.

 

[mlchance]

(Joshua):

I’m pro-life and not pro war, and I’m pro defend myself.

Okay. Fine. Me too. Which of those many civilians murdered by the IRA were threatening you or yours?
(Joshua):

You still haven’t answered my question, stop side stepping it, cherry picking as we call it over here, call a spade a spade.

I’m not sidestepping anything. Your question is irrelevant to the atrocities committed by the IRA. But, if it makes you feel better, I condemn without qualifications any use of force that deliberately targets noncombatant women and children.

You know? Children like Kathryn Eakin, who was blown up by an IRA bomb deliberately detonated in a public place where it was certain to injure and kill women and children.

 

[Linda_H]

(Joshua):

Oh sooooh !! sorry Linda Dear, your post wasn’t clear :bowdown: Ok can I get off my knees now ?

Please do, my feeling weren’t hurt.
Linda H.

 

[condan]

mlchance:

So whose life was Kathryn Eakin threatening? What about the other eight civilians killed by that bomb? Detonated in a public place when it was sure to kill civilians? Were they are all threatening someone’s life?

How about February 17, 1978, when the IRA detonated an incendiary device against the facade of a Belfast hotel? Twelve civilians died in the resulting fire, including seven women. All of those killed were married, and seven of the twelve had children. Given the placement of the bomb, there can be no doubt that the IRA intended to kill civilians.

How about September 11, 1975, when IRA gunmen burst into what was basically a church-club meeting and opened fire? (Sounds a lot like Islamist terrorists attacking a synagogue, eh?) The IRA killed five men, one of whom was 80-years-old. All of them were civilians, which the IRA surely knew.

How about one of the rare times murderous IRA terrorists actually worked up the gumption to strike a military target? On February 22, 1972, the IRA detonated a bomb outside an officers’ mess, killing one solider (a chaplain) and five civilian women and one civilian man.

Were the civilians killed in this “brave” military strike against a chaplain just acceptable collateral damage?

Check out the definition of “non sequitur.”

– Mark L. Chance.

January 30, 1972

 

[condan]

mlchance:

How about September 11, 1975, when IRA gunmen burst into what was basically a church-club meeting and opened fire? (Sounds a lot like Islamist terrorists attacking a synagogue, eh?) The IRA killed five men, one of whom was 80-years-old. All of them were civilians, which the IRA surely knew.

Any members of the UDF or UVF in that meeting? Or were they just playing tidlee winks?

 

[_Joshua]

mlchance:

So whose life was Kathryn Eakin threatening? What about the other eight civilians killed by that bomb? Detonated in a public place when it was sure to kill civilians? Were they are all threatening someone’s life?

How about February 17, 1978, when the IRA detonated an incendiary device against the facade of a Belfast hotel? Twelve civilians died in the resulting fire, including seven women. All of those killed were married, and seven of the twelve had children. Given the placement of the bomb, there can be no doubt that the IRA intended to kill civilians.

How about September 11, 1975, when IRA gunmen burst into what was basically a church-club meeting and opened fire? (Sounds a lot like Islamist terrorists attacking a synagogue, eh?) The IRA killed five men, one of whom was 80-years-old. All of them were civilians, which the IRA surely knew.

How about one of the rare times murderous IRA terrorists actually worked up the gumption to strike a military target? On February 22, 1972, the IRA detonated a bomb outside an officers’ mess, killing one solider (a chaplain) and five civilian women and one civilian man.

– Mark L. Chance.

Tell me news I haven’t heard, I’ve lived through it, all killing is bad, even those killed in so-called legitimate wars.
I know IRA men here that regret even getting involved in the conflict, but involved they did.
Don’t think I’m condoning murder, I’m not, but you have to sometimes ask yourself why people see the need to do this in the first place.

 

[Linda_H]

Faustina:

I agree about the stink of a smear campaign.

Hey, Linda H. you and I live somewhat close, you wanna plan an invasion of Ireland?

I don’t think an invasion would go over to well, but we could work on a small group trip in the future, that is as long as hanging out with a crip isn’t a problem for you,lol. I’d love to talk more with you, I’ll send you a IM.
Linda H.

 

[mlchance]

condan:

January 30, 1972

Ah. So the IRA is justified blowing up women and children because the Army fired on a group of civil rights protestors. Gotcha.

condan:

Any members of the UDF or UVF in that meeting? Or were they just playing tidlee winks?

Maybe. I don’t know. Do you? If so, does that justify murderous vigilante action? What if UDF or UVF members were present, but not all of the people present were such members? Did they just get what they had coming to them?
(Joshua):

Don’t think I’m condoning murder, I’m not, but you have to sometimes ask yourself why people see the need to do this in the first place.

Here’s the disconnect I keep picking up. Maybe I’m inferring too much. You don’t condone murder, followed immediately by “but.”

But what? There is no justification for murder. Period. A murderer’s motive might make for interesting trivia or good tactical information, but he remains a murderer. Period. End of story. There is no “but” that somehow makes the act of murder less than what it is.

I too have seen murder, although probably not on the same scale as you. But I’ve still seen it. Up close and personal. I certainly asked myself “Why?” I never for instant, however, thought that the answer to that question changed any of the facts.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[condan]

mlchance:

Ah. So the IRA is justified blowing up women and children because the Army fired on a group of civil rights protestors. Gotcha.

Maybe. I don’t know. Do you? If so, does that justify murderous vigilante action? What if UDF or UVF members were present, but not all of the people present were such members? Did they just get what they had coming to them?

Here’s the disconnect I keep picking up. Maybe I’m inferring too much. You don’t condone murder, followed immediately by “but.”

But what? There is no justification for murder. Period. A murderer’s motive might make for interesting trivia or good tactical information, but he remains a murderer. Period. End of story. There is no “but” that somehow makes the act of murder less than what it is.

I too have seen murder, although probably not on the same scale as you. But I’ve still seen it. Up close and personal. I certainly asked myself “Why?” I never for instant, however, thought that the answer to that question changed any of the facts.

– Mark L. Chance.

Why is it that there is no justification for murder committed by the IRA but the UDF, UVF and the British government get no mention whatever.

If there is no justification for murder, then it should be across the board, to both the oppressor as well as the oppressed. Further, just for the record, the IRA hitting civilian targets is not historic but is limited to this latest round of “troubles” whereas the British and their loyalist minions have done so all along. While you are right that murder is always wrong, if the Brits and the Orangemen hadn’t been so brutal, the IRA would never have evolved from the Fenian movement.

 

[NightRider]

Mr Chance,

Before you condemn the IRA please investigate all the horrendous atrocities committed by the UVF, the RUC, the Red Hand Defenders and Britain’s SAS. You’d do well to look into exactly what those Protestant paramilitaries are doing in the North of Ireland. Then you might understand where (Joshua) and the IRA are coming from.

 

[NightRider]

condan:

Why is it that there is no justification for murder committed by the IRA but the UDF, UVF and the British government get no mention whatever.

If there is no justification for murder, then it should be across the board, to both the oppressor as well as the oppressed. Further, just for the record, the IRA hitting civilian targets is not historic but is limited to this latest round of “troubles” whereas the British and their loyalist minions have done so all along. While you are right that murder is always wrong, if the Brits and the Orangemen hadn’t been so brutal, the IRA would never have evolved from the Fenian movement.

Condan, this is absolutely correct. Good on ya!

 

[_Joshua]

(Joshua),

**I’ve not been to Fermanagh but I’ve been to Belfast and Derry and loved it immensely! Was over on a two week trip in 1998 and only spent one night in Dublin and all the rest in the North. The North is beautiful and the people are fantastic. My son and I walked all over the place and when we weren’t walking we took the Black Taxis. We had a grand time and I want to return again. **

Tiocfaidh ar la!

~Geraldine

Yep it’s not so bad here now, children get born, people get married, people are buried, and people get on with life, what else can we do ?
And your more than welcome, I like Derry City myself, I’ve been to Belfast numerous times, in good and bad.

Nothing is ever as it seems, Northern Ireland is a relative safe place, and most on this forum and beyond would probably like it.

There was a man from England here a few years ago that had never been to Ireland, well he cried like a baby when he left.

Anyway it’s late here and I’m going to Goodnight !

 

[NightRider]

Joshua,

I cried like a baby when I had to leave Ireland, too! I simply wanted to stay for the remainder of my days, so I must return!