Oh wait.....Trumps campaign was wire tapped after all

[Theo520]

Do you really think that is what happened and a judge in a FISA court bought it?

Sheesh.

I think my basic timeline is accurate, and its very dangerous activity to tap your political opponent during a campaign, which they denied in spite of the many leaks confirming otherwise.

I’d be less suspicious if there weren’t so many leaks traced back to people that weren’t investigating the guy.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I miss the ignore list. It came in handy after a while.

 

[Jig_Saw]

I miss the ignore list. It came in handy after a while.

It’s a shame they got rid of the PM too, because, in the old days, you could have sent the message that way instead of taking a public shot at dvdjs. Unless, of course, that was your intention.

 

[Theo520]

It’s a shame they got rid of the PM too,

There is still a ‘message’ button when you click on a poster’s icon

 

[Xystus]

Mostly, partly, etc. Are used in elaborated statements in which some parts are true and other parts are false.

Today is Tuesday and the temperature in New York is 100F That statement is partly true.

I have never suggested that all things said by Trump are false. What an idea!

the statement in trumps tweet was ‘my “wires tapped” in Trump Tower’. So maybe the “my” part is not true and it was actually Manafort. the ‘“wires tapped” part is true the “Trump Tower”’ part very well could be true. We know manafort was wire tapped, why would they only do that to one of his locations? it looks like the tweet claim is “mostly true” and that it was not such a baseless claim after all.

 

[dvdjs]

I think my basic timeline is accurate, and its very dangerous activity to tap your political opponent during a campaign, which they denied in spite of the many leaks confirming otherwise.

Being a campaign chair does not grant immunity. Trump, not Manafort was the opponent. He was not tapped. What leak has suggested otherwise?

 

[dvdjs]

the statement in trumps tweet was ‘my “wires tapped” in Trump Tower’. So maybe the “my” part is not true and it was actually Manafort. the ‘“wires tapped” part is true the “Trump Tower”’ part very well could be true. We know manafort was wire tapped, why would they only do that to one of his locations? it looks like the tweet claim is “mostly true” and that it was not such a baseless claim after all.

Still looking for partial credit?
Tee CNN artlicle indicated that Trump provided no basis for the accusation. If he had a basis, he had every opportunity to give it. If what Trump became aware of was that Manafort was under investigation as a foreign agent and that Manafort was wire tapped, Trump had every opportunity to clarify.

I am not sure why people spend any bandwidth at all seeking to champion unclear communication

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well, the “I don’t know” is the timeline of the investigation. And the “we don’t know” is the reason the investigation was reopened. It is entirely reasonable to assume that the FISA court granted a warrant for good reason. It isn’t surprising that we (Theo, you and I) don’t know that reason though (hence, the “I don’t knows”). Furthermore, if charges are pressed, it isn’t particularly speculative that the investigation yielded actionable criminal behavior on Manafort’s part. So, I think your comment that it ‘sounds pretty speculative to me’ sounds more like wishful thinking on your part.

Now, whether or not this connects to Trump, we don’t know yet.

Whether it “connects to Trump” probably will depend on how afraid and disoriented the latter-day Krylenko, Mueller, can make Manafort or others in similar situations. Get a person sufficiently afraid and/or disoriented and he’ll say anything. After all, the “critical testimony” against Scooter Libby was later recanted.

It’s interesting, and I recommend it to people, that they read accounts of, say, the Promparty Trials at the same time as the US criminal code. The latter is so vague and wide in ambit that no one can be entirely sure he doesn’t violate it at least once/year; perhaps monthly for a business person. One would have hoped the U.S. would not have come to something like this. But that’s where we are.

Any “wishful thinking” on my part is pointless, because my “wish” is that the “special prosecutor” law had never been enacted. From blue dresses to predawn raids on Manafort’s home, it has always been a dreadful thing, and always will be.

I agree totally with liberal Alan Dershowitz on that score. It’s Stalinesque,.

 

[Xystus]

Still looking for partial credit?

Still cant admit that the wire tapping claims were not a bunch of hogwash after all?

I get it, i would not want to eat crow either, it cant taste very good.

 

[Jig_Saw]

Whether it “connects to Trump” probably will depend on how afraid and disoriented the latter-day Krylenko, Mueller, can make Manafort or others in similar situations. Get a person sufficiently afraid and/or disoriented and he’ll say anything. After all, the “critical testimony” against Scooter Libby was later recanted.

It’s interesting, and I recommend it to people, that they read accounts of, say, the Promparty Trials at the same time as the US criminal code. The latter is so vague and wide in ambit that no one can be entirely sure he doesn’t violate it at least once/year; perhaps monthly for a business person. One would have hoped the U.S. would not have come to something like this. But that’s where we are.

Any “wishful thinking” on my part is pointless, because my “wish” is that the “special prosecutor” law had never been enacted. From blue dresses to predawn raids on Manafort’s home, it has always been a dreadful thing, and always will be.

I agree totally with liberal Alan Dershowitz on that score. It’s Stalinesque,.

Sounds pretty speculative to me. You are assuming that the prosecutor will not take his responsibility seriously. You are assuming that any charges against Manafort will have no basis in reality and depend on unreliable witnesses. And you agree with Alan Dershowitz, OJ Simpson lawyer. Why don’t you override your instincts to defend Trump in all things and see what the evidence shows before condemning it?

 

[dvdjs]

Still cant admit that the wire tapping claims were not a bunch of hogwash after all?

I get it, i would not want to eat crow either, it cant taste very good.

I don’t think that the claims were a bunch of hogwash, and never said that they were. Indications of some surveillance came very early.

I don’t like to play Trump mind-reader, interpreter, or explainer, but since it seems to be all the rage here, I will give it a go.

My guess is that he received information about precisely what happened. And then he either:
got angry, thinking that it was all about him, and blurted out a tweet that, in his personally-offended rage, omitted the salient facts, but passed along his sense of being violated to his supporters;
or, seeing that the lid would ultimately come off all of the Russia connections - which might be rather unsavory - he gave a measured tweet, calculated to deflect and call the investigations and investigators into question.

As to crow: my plate is empty. But those who have been repeating the Trump line that there is nothing to this Russia investigation should stock-up on condiments.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

They’ve had 3 years to indict Manafort with something yet they haven’t done so. They finally raided his home with a search warrant last month. Now put up or shut up.

They were probably searching for something they had up to that time forgotten to put there . . .

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sounds pretty speculative to me. You are assuming that the prosecutor will not take his responsibility seriously. You are assuming that any charges against Manafort will have no basis in reality and depend on unreliable witnesses. And you agree with Alan Dershowitz, OJ Simpson lawyer. Why don’t you override your instincts to defend Trump in all things and see what the evidence shows before condemning it?

After the “Whitewater” investigation turned into a “blue dress” investigation and Scooter Libby was railroaded by false testimony, why in the world would I assume that “special prosecutors” are going to “take their responsibility seriously” in any way other than looking to hang scalps from their tentpoles?

Alan Dershowitz is not now to be discounted just because of the people he has represented. He was the darling of liberals until he compared the Mueller investigation to a Beria “investigation”, and he will be again in some other venue. Liberals didn’t turn on him because of Simpson. It’s only now that liberals criticize him because he doesn’t endorse their NKVD tactics.

In this matter, my concern is not out of devotion to Trump, it’s the descent of the federal justice system into the darkness of political show trials. I didn’t like it with Clinton or Libby, and I don’t like it any better now.

 

[Jig_Saw]

After the “Whitewater” investigation turned into a “blue dress” investigation and Scooter Libby was railroaded by false testimony, why in the world would I assume that “special prosecutors” are going to “take their responsibility seriously” in any way other than looking to hang scalps from their tentpoles?

Alan Dershowitz is not now to be discounted just because of the people he has represented. He was the darling of liberals until he compared the Mueller investigation to a Beria “investigation”, and he will be again in some other venue. Liberals didn’t turn on him because of Simpson. It’s only now that liberals criticize him because he doesn’t endorse their NKVD tactics.

In this matter, my concern is not out of devotion to Trump, it’s the descent of the federal justice system into the darkness of political show trials. I didn’t like it with Clinton or Libby, and I don’t like it any better now.

Well, Bill Clinton did perjure himself and that is unacceptable to me, at least. And, despite your claims of railroading, Scooter Libby’s conviction has not been overturned, so I have real doubts that the key testimony that was later recanted made that much of a difference.

At the end of the day, the independent counsel is needed because it is the only way to escape the politics in Washington at the time. Trump gave ample evidence of this when he fired Comey for the Russian investigation (and we all know that’s why he was fired so you can save claims that it was somehow for different reasons). Again, I would like to know that the President of the United States is not under the undue influence of a hostile foreign government. So far, we have his son being willing to meet with an agent of the Russian government to get dirt on his father’s political opponent and we have a campaign manager that looks to be facing federal charges. That’s a lot of smoke and deserves a serious investigation. I only wish Republicans were as patriotic as other Americans and would put their country ahead of their party.

 

[ChunkMonk]

Even though this proves Trump was right all along, the narrative will shift into:

“Well why would the police be looking into you if you weren’t guilty?”

If that sounds like every jackbooted authoritarian that ever lived then you’ve realized the bitter truth of the Land of the Free. We stop being free the minute a non-Leftist gets in the way of the agenda.

 

[sallybutler]

Exactly the same response made to people who didn’t like the Patriot Act.

 

[ChunkMonk]

Exactly the same response made to people who didn’t like the Patriot Act.

With only one big caveat. George W. Bush, for all his faults, never used his unconstitutional powers to target and destroy his political opponents. His big flaw was in the naive assumption that his “friends on the other side of the aisle” would act with the same restraint.

The real trick is in realizing that they generally will as long as you’re non-threatening and Established like the Bushes. When you get someone or some groups who upset the apple cart, then you see the true nature of Obama types.

 

[Ridgerunner]

With only one big caveat. George W. Bush, for all his faults, never used his unconstitutional powers to target and destroy his political opponents. His big flaw was in the naive assumption that his “friends on the other side of the aisle” would act with the same restraint.

The real trick is in realizing that they generally will as long as you’re non-threatening and Established like the Bushes. When you get someone or some groups who upset the apple cart, then you see the true nature of Obama types.

I agree entirely.

I’ll add that, in my opinion, the left is inherently totalitarian because it always wants people to do that which they do not naturally want to do voluntarily. So deceit is necessary and if that fails, coercion is the resort.

 

[Stephen_C]

So what is your point? I see a lot of deceit coming from the far right, and the alt right as well. Me I am just left from center on social issues. I am a tad hawkish so I am to the right of center on that front.

 

[BW1980]

And what business is that of yours or mine? Is it now acceptable in this country to leak information about people being investigated regardless of whether that investigation is warranted or will even turn up illegal activity?

I suppose it is…depending on who it is.