On the frontline of Europe’s forgotten war in Ukraine

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AlNg said:
Dividing the country in two would separate the two differing parties.
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Except I suspect most of the differing parties are no longer there. It’s a war zone in eastern Ukraine. Back before the Russians scattered millions of them, Pew took a poll. Some 70% of eastern Ukrainians wanted to remain part of Ukraine. Even a majority of Russian-speakers did. Where they all are now, God only knows.

And after some latter-day Neville Chamberlin handed eastern Ukraine over to Russia, what would be next? Some people thought Russia would be satisfied with crimea, but obviously she isn’t.
 
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AlNg said:
Dividing the country in two would separate the two differing parties.
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The situation is more akin to the carving up of Czechoslovakia before WWII. That did not ceate "peace in our time, it just heightened the appetite of the aggressor.
 
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dvdjs said:
The situation is more akin to the carving up of Czechoslovakia before WWII.
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No. It is more like dividing Czechoslovakia after WWII. We now have two countries at peace: Czechia and Slovakia.
I think it is better to have two countries at peace, rather than one country chaotically divided in a brutal civil war resulting in deaths of many. It is best to divide Ukraine in two independent, sovereign countries, so that both sides can live in peaceful coexistence with the other.
 
Profete said:
I like how Ukraine was at peace during evil Yanukovich.
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Yes. There was peace then, but apparently the USA did not like it as Victoria Nuland supported a coup d’etat which ended up destabilizing the country, and placing the youngest son of the US vice president, Hunter Biden, on the board of Burisma holdings, one of Ukraine’s largest natural gas companies.
 
You can’t compare Donetsk with Kosovo or Catalonia. Although one of the arguments of Donetsk was also the economic prosperity outside of Ukraine, in fact, as always with the Russians, the reality turned out in much worse life.
 
“in Donetsk opened a monument to Cheka.”
I would call it the ideological insanity.

 
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There they have already started to pick up empty apartments if no one is living there, that property is taken away and they put new tenants there.
If refugees have friends who can trust to pay utilities and to visit the apartment, it’s not a tragedy, but those who are afraid to return and have no body there may lose their apartments.
Donetsk Military commanders along with their wives now become the local oligarchy, and control large factories and supermarkets.
The fact that residents get paid in Russian roubles will not save the people of Donetsk from the frequent non-payment of wages and the unprecedented food price increase.
Unfortunately people have become hostages of Russian propaganda, and the violent squeezing of the region, no body asked these people if they want to be DNR, the soldiers in green uniforms came there and brought this new life to them.
 
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To be frank, Russia has right to completely destroy Ukraine because it is run by neo-NAZI scum.
 
AlNg said:
It is best to divide Ukraine in two independent, sovereign countries, so that both sides can live in peaceful coexistence with the other.
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Why, when the great majority of Eastern Ukrainians wanted to remain part of a unified Ukraine?

Dividing Ukraine is simply handing part of Ukraine to Russia. Why should we want that when the Ukrainians don’t?
 
Putin’s regime never praised Hitler’s collaborators, like Ukraine’s does, especially in western Ukraine. The leading protestors at Maidan were neo-NAZIs, Banderists. They are holding marches with NAZI flags.Today People who speak Russian get beaten in the western half of Ukraine. Ukraine really needs to be invaded by Russia and a regime should be installed, new regime that is not filled with neo-NAZIs traitors who sell Ukrainian economy to western corporations and local criminals. If US can install regimes around the world, so can Russia, at least in a country that is filled with threatened Russians.
 
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Replace “Ukraine” with Czechoslovakia and “Russians” with “Germans” and this could have been written in 1938
 
Profete said:
Putin’s regime never praised Hitler’s collaborators
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Of course not. They’re competitors of the very same sort. The Irish Mob didn’t like the Mafia, either. Despite all the ideological claptrap and false distinctions, there was no real difference between the SS/Gestapo and the Cheka/GP/NKVD/MVD/KGB.

And there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the Putin fascist regime and any other fascist regime on the planet.
 
Why did you not add CIA on the list? Are you suffering from hypocrisy. Both super powers used their security agenicies in brutal ways to secure their interests. But what regime in Ukraine does is spreading public racism and is restoring to “glory” collaborators of Hitler Banderists who helped Hitler to kill millions of Russians, Jews and others.

And i was talking about NAZI regime, a racist regime in Ukraine that mocks Russians as evil mongolians who want to destroy pure white Slavic Ukraine.
 
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Both superpowers used their security agencies in brutal ways. No question about that. But the CIA didn’t kill millions of their own people like the Chekists did. Differences need to be acknowledged.

One recalls that in the Ukrainian elections post-Yanukovich, the right wing parties together didn’t match the vote of a party led by a Jewish candidate. Just calling Ukrainians names doesn’t persuade anybody of anything.

I think I would need to see some evidence that a majority of Ukrainians see Russians as “evil Mongolians”. What is beyond question is that Russians imposed the Holodomor on Ukraine, and it’s no great surprise that they haven’t forgotten. There are people still alive today who experienced it, and the great majority of them would have heard their parents and grandparents tell about it.

But handing over part of an unwilling Ukraine to Russian revanchists is not a solution to that or anything else.
 
For centuries the Kremlin, whether occupied by Czars or General Secretaries of the Communist Party, has viewed those peoples and nations that lay on its periphery as, at best protectorates, or just as often as fundamentally Russian territory, and no people have been regarded more as Russian property than the people of Ukraine. If Ukraine is intent on abandoning this centuries old servile relationship with the Muscovy princes, whatever form they currently take, then the intention is to cause Ukraine as much harm as possible.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
ussians as “evil Mongolians”. What is beyond question is that Russians imposed the Holodomor on Ukraine, and it’s no great surprise that they haven’t forgotten. There are people still alive today who experienced it, and the great majority of them would have heard their parents and grandparents tell about it.
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Please, USA had black slaves and exterminated Native population. Black People are still discriminated in the US, in the 1960s they could not sit in the frontal seats of the bus, such racial discrimination was unthinkable in the USSR.

Russians did not impose anything on Ukraine, it was Georgian Stalin. The NAZIs in Ukraine don’t get the votes, but they get tolerated to do anything they want. They abuse normal Ukrainians who don’t want to hate Russia.
And let us be honest here, Russia was found in Ukraine, it was the communists who forged fake national identity of Ukraine. Even word Ukraine means Province. It is a province, it was called small Russia. Thanks to the Brestlitovsk union and the meddling of Rome in the affairs of the Russian Orthodox Church, the People in Ukraine was divided at such degree that they are killing each other, Communists only have piled on the problems.
Russian Orthodox Church was right when it said it will not co-operate in ecumenism with Rome as long as Rome is supporting Schism in Ukraine against the Orthodox Church. The root of division in Ukraine is religious.
 
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Ukraine had had its own cultural identity for centuries. You’ll note most peoemin Ukraine speak Ukrainian, not Russian.

It’s hard to respond to someone who seems to speak in regurgitated Communist era and 1930s German taking points
 
Profete said:
Please, USA had black slaves and exterminated Native population. Black People are still discriminated in the US, in the 1960s they could not sit in the frontal seats of the bus, such racial discrimination was unthinkable in the USSR.

Russians did not impose anything on Ukraine, it was Georgian Stalin. The NAZIs in Ukraine don’t get the votes, but they get tolerated to do anything they want. They abuse normal Ukrainians who don’t want to hate Russia.

And let us be honest here, Russia was found in Ukraine, it was the communists who forged fake national identity of Ukraine. Even word Ukraine means Province. It is a province, it was called small Russia. Thanks to the Brestlitovsk union and the meddling of Rome in the affairs of the Russian Orthodox Church, the People in Ukraine was divided at such degree that they are killing each other, Communists only have piled on the problems.

Russian Orthodox Church was right when it said it will not co-operate in ecumenism with Rome as long as Rome is supporting Schism in Ukraine against the Orthodox Church. The root of division in Ukraine is religious
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The U.S. did not treat some of the INdians well, and that can’t be ignored. But Indians were by and large decimated by disease. Nobody could have prevented that.

Ukrainians were deliberately starved to death by the Bolshevik regime. Stalin was a Georgian (or as Georgians say, an Ossete) but Lenin was Russian. Peters, Latsis, Uspensky, Firin, Yagoda, Beria…all monsters and all Russians. Lenin was responsible for the Volga starvation; selling grain to the Germans while Russians starved. And Stalin’s henchmen were mostly Russians after he killed off the Jewish Old Bolsheviks.

Slavery was terribly wrong, but it ended in 1865. Russian genocide continues to this day.

Solzhenitsyn maintained that Russia could never regain its soul until it let Ukrainians go their own way. For a short time, it appeared it might. No more.
 
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