On the Tiber's shore

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I think I know some of what you are going through. While I have not yet been called a traitor, I have gotten suspicious side-comments from family already. I also have been experiencing many of the physio-emotional symptoms you mentioned. I have been hit by a strong instance of depression recently and am massively behind my doctorate prep-work because of it.

So, know that you aren’t alone.

For us both: St Augustine, doctor of the Church and patron of theologians, pray for us!
 
OddBird said:
mainly the fact that I should be ordained in my Protestant community next year, and that if I don’t follow through and give them three more years as a minister, I’ll have to pay back my training costs (and I can’t).
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I wonder if the Coming Home Network could help you with that financial situation?
 
I am so sorry you are all having to go through this just to follow Jesus calling you to Him. Stay strong, it will all be so worth it that first time you receive Jesus and become one with Him. Know that so many of us are praying for you.

Blessed Mother, please intercede for us.
Hold the sorrowful-
Mother and love the weary, abused, neglected
or forgotten among us-
Give your aid to all needing help or healing-
Assist those who are sick, in pain or suffering-
Be with those needing peace-
Console the lonely or brokenhearted-
Comfort the lost or hopeless-
Strengthen the fearful-
Guard the unborn-
Pray for those who are dying or who have died-
Soften those with hardened hearts-
Enlighten those who do not yet see truth-
Help us be brave enough to let our hurt and anger go-
Show us the way to do the right thing-
Protect those who are in danger, and
Guide us from every evil.
May all who keep your sacred commemoration
experience the might of your assistance.
Amen
 
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I live in Europe, so…

I think what is going to happen is that I will plead my cause and see if there can be some understanding.
 
So, I got my wife and brother to agree to a crazy idea. I explained it to my wife as a means by which she can be assured I am not joining some weird, barely Christian cult. My brother just thought it was a good idea. I am waiting on my in-laws to read and respond to my email proposal. With the aid of various resources, I have proposed a daily devotional for them.

The general pattern is this:

Sign of the Cross

The opening versicles to the Hours

Come, Holy Spirit…

Our Father…

Apostles’ Creed

Readings and Psalm from the Lectionary

A reading from Peter Kreeft’s Catholic Christianity

Lord have mercy…

(2nd) Our Father…

May the divine assistance…

And may the souls of the faithful departed…

My hope is that this devotional will 1) increase their use and reading of Scripture and 2) increase their knowledge of the Catholic faith, disabusing them of misunderstandings, and 3) plant the seeds for them to eventually convert (or, in the case of my brother, revert) themselves.
 
OddBird said:
I live in Europe, so…
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I’m not aware that they limit their assistance to clergy converts in a specific country? Have you checked? Worst case scenario, they say “sorry, no can do”. Best case scenario, you’ve got one less thing to worry about.
 
I just finished a stressful email/text conversation with my mother-in-law. Despite my protestations that her claims about the Catholic Church were no where near what the Church actually teaches, and my attempts at explanation, she refused to listen, insisting that what her pastor (an ex-Catholic himself, and the man who officiated my wedding) and the Book of Concord say is absolutely correct, and so she has no need to hear things from the Catholic perspective. About Catholic teaching.

So, I am rather rankled at the moment, and am beginning to despair of ever being understood.

I also fear I came across in a way I did not intend. My last message was an apology.

I’m too wound up to be able to concentrate on praying the Rosary. So, I’m currently listening to Agni Parthene on repeat to calm down.

I still haven’t heard anything from my parish of record, nor from Father about whether he has gotten anything. I gave the only proof of my Baptism, Confirmation, first Eucharist, and first Confession I had. He said he needed more information.The only document I haven’t shown him yet is my marriage certificate, but the office is closed now. I don’t know whether I am losing patience or hope. I don’t feel safe in this “limbo”. It feels like I am a tiny raft tied to a massive ship in the midst of a deadly storm. I don’t trust my ability to be steadfast, to maintain faith—I’ve fallen away and turned my back on the Church before.

Though I do not think I doubt the mercy and forgiveness of God, nor the absolution of his priest, I am still haunted by my sin, or perhaps more accurately, by the consequences of it.

I see more clearly now, in the consequences, the evil I wrought. I contributed to my mother-in-law’s misunderstandings and distrust of anything “too Catholic”. I contributed to my wife’s suspicions of the Church. I contributed to my brother’s rebelliousness against her. They all looked to me as a guide in the faith, and I led them all astray.

I plan on going to Confession again tomorrow. It is the only Sacrament I can receive right now, until my marriage is blessed/validated/whatever needs to be done. Unless Father tells me not to, I intend to go weekly at least until I can receive again the Holy Eucharist.

None of them will be convinced by Scriptural or historical proofs or arguments, at least, not at this stage. The only hope I have of helping lead them to a fuller relationship with Christ, and to clean up the mess I made, is to keep my eyes on the Cross and to strive to become a Saint.
 
At the end of days, each has to answer individually to the Question of God. I am the only Cathllic on my side of the family, and while it hurts to not have them here with me, that is their decision to make.
 
MiserereMei said:
I am still haunted by my sin, or perhaps more accurately, by the consequences of it.

I see more clearly now, in the consequences, the evil I wrought. I contributed to my mother-in-law’s misunderstandings and distrust of anything “too Catholic”. I contributed to my wife’s suspicions of the Church. I contributed to my brother’s rebelliousness against her. They all looked to me as a guide in the faith, and I led them all astray.
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MM I cannot hope to understand the level of your frustration - but will pray for its speedy resolution. I just wished to say I find myself with similar thoughts as above. It seems In my ignorance as a younger person, my behaviour in relation to faith matters contributed to my spouse drifting away from the catholic church. I was shocked to learn from my spouse that early in my marriage, my responses to their queries were treated with dismissive arrogance and scorn. While I dont believe that was my posture or intent, I do understand thats how it was seen!!.

Please dont keep revisiting your error - you have been to confession, you are forgiven. I know that God takes our weakness and does immense good with it. As St Paul says it is in our weakness that He shows His strength. This thought has given me some comfort.

Finally, I am not sure anyone can argue another person into the faith. That is the work of Gods Holy Spirit. All we can do is reveal Gods truth as we see it (- and be open to correction ourselves.) and provide the facts as we see them. The other person once hearing us has a “choice” to make. It is their “adult choice” irrespective of how reasoned or well informed our view might be. I pray and leave it in His hands.

I found the last line of your post most powerful. A summary lesson to keep our eyes on the Cross. Prayer for many blessings on your passion and enthusiasm for our faith.
 
@al2o3, thank you. I hope and pray that your case is resolved favorably as well!
al2o3 said:
Finally, I am not sure anyone can argue another person into the faith. That is the work of Gods Holy Spirit. All we can do is reveal Gods truth as we see it
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Indeed. I can only hope right now to provide accurate information, to correct misunderstandings, and to live a noble example.
al2o3 said:
I found the last line of your post most powerful. A summary lesson to keep our eyes on the Cross.
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I must admit that that is not mine. It is a paraphrase of something one of my professors in Church History once said during a lecture on the martyrs.
AlmaRedemptorisMater said:
At the end of days, each has to answer individually to the Question of God. I am the only Cathllic on my side of the family, and while it hurts to not have them here with me, that is their decision to make.
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@AlmaRedemptorisMater, That is true. It used to be a silly dream of mine before I left the Church that, if I were not called to be a priest, that I would have a family that would go to Mass together, pray the Rosary together, and have a home altar—however simple—at which we would pray the major Hours and Angelus together, altogether a home life I never had.
As an aside, I recently got another message from my mother-in-law. She recommended that I stop doing theology entirely, that I start being just a Christian with my Bible and wife, and begin attending a Bible-based church. I don’t know whether I should be expaserated or laugh.
 
MiserereMei said:
She recommended that I stop doing theology entirely, that I start being just a Christian with my Bible and wife, and begin attending a Bible-based church.
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Bible study with your wife using the readings of the day could help you grow together while avoiding controversy.

Patience. Step back a little, leave more space for God’s work. St Monica prayed for many years for her mother-in-law and for her son Augustine.

Proceed with your faith journey but don’t drag others kicking & screaming. 😉
St. Monica,
I need your prayers.
You know exactly how I’m feeling because you once felt it yourself.
I’m hurting, hopeless, and in despair.
I desperately want my child to return to Christ in his Church but I can’t do it alone.
I need God’s help.
Please join me in begging the Lord’s powerful grace to flow into my child’s life.
Ask the Lord Jesus to soften his heart, prepare a path for his conversion, and activate the Holy Spirit in his life.
Amen.
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(Replace “my child” with my wife, my brother, my mother-in-law. )
 
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I emphasize with what you are going through, MM.

I think part of what happens, in your MIL’s reaction as in my husband’s “traitor” comment, is that the path we are following puts a huge question mark on their own lives too, because they love and esteem us and see that this is serious – so how can people whose judgment they used to trust really want this ?

Most people, myself included, fear changes, and this is a huge paradigm shift. When I catch my husband looking at me, when I see his face when I leave for Mass, I see both his pain and a question : why, deep down, does she do this ? What is there that is strong enough to make her persevere in this path I cannot understand ?

I can’t answer that question for now because I also see he’s hurting too much to be able to listen. I’m waiting for him to have come to terms with it enough to ask it aloud. He’s shocked, as I suspect your MIL is.

I don’t see what we can do except for praying for them, loving them, and waiting for the wound to hurt a little less – but even that is easier said than done.
 
OddBird said:
When I catch my husband looking at me, when I see his face when I leave for Mass, I see both his pain and a question : why, deep down, does she do this ? What is there that is strong enough to make her persevere in this path I cannot understand ?
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I think we all know the answer to that question. And that is our King Jesus, truly and substantially present in the Eucharist, body, blood, soul and divinity. Not partly, not sort of, not symbolic, but the Lord entering us and changing us from within.

If Non-Catholic Christians could believe as we believe, they would form massive lines the likes of which Catholic Churches have never seen - -because they really love Jesus as well. They would fall on their faces and adore him. If your hubby gets to the point - in which he understands all this, even though he disagrees, he may ease up on this.

Will pray for that day to come. 🙂
 
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Last couple of weeks have been strange. My Pastor at my Lutheran Church called my wife out of the blue wanting to come visit us at our house. Another one of those “shepherd” things I’ve mentioned about him before. We went back to our normal service after going to Mass and had elders almost go out of their way to speak to us and just make it feel like “home.”

I’m asking for discernment and guidance from the Holy Spirit and after feeling sure in the jump to the RCC for months, now I almost feel like we’re supposed to be at our Lutheran Church.

Please pray for continued guidance.
 
I can certainly commiserate with your situation.

To be perfectly honest, if I were to decide based upon most people around me, I would remain Lutheran myself. The Pastors at our Lutheran church (all three of them) have been overwhelmingly helpful in recent issues my wife and I have had; and they are better preachers by far than Father is. Compared to the open and friendly people at the Lutheran church, the people at the Catholic church I’ve been attending seem timid. The music is better with the Lutherans, and the Lutheran congregation has more things going on each week. I wouldn’t have to worry about unintentionally destroying all of the relationships I have built over the years. I could go on.

But, I left the Catholic Church years ago because of people. I am sorry, but I cannot recall at the moment if you have any doctrinal reasons to stay Lutheran. I can’t seem to navigate this forum well. If you are convinced that the Catholic Church is the Church Christ our Lord established, if you have no serious doctrinal objections, then why stay Lutheran? If you do have doctrinal objections, then continue to reflect on them. What do your positions say or imply about Christ? Are you comfortable with them—whether from the Catholic or the Lutheran side?

Ask yourself: Where is Jesus? Where is he waiting for me? Where has he promised that he would be?

I pray that we both have the wisdom to seek Christ, and the courage to follow where he leads. Also, that we both have the patience and fortitude to cling to the Cross no matter what may come, even if we must wait, each for his own wife, decades if need be.

During this morning’s Mass, Father included an intercession for all who were considering coming home to the Catholic Church.

Pray for me as well: due to unavoidable work or other preoccupations, I have not yet had to face my Pastors at our Lutheran parish.
 
TNMan said:
Last couple of weeks have been strange. My Pastor at my Lutheran Church called my wife out of the blue wanting to come visit us at our house. Another one of those “shepherd” things I’ve mentioned about him before. We went back to our normal service after going to Mass and had elders almost go out of their way to speak to us and just make it feel like “home.”

I’m asking for discernment and guidance from the Holy Spirit and after feeling sure in the jump to the RCC for months, now I almost feel like we’re supposed to be at our Lutheran Church.

Please pray for continued guidance.
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@TNMan

In my experience events are rarely coincidental. Perhaps someone in that church also reads CAF, or was contacted by someone here who put 2 + 2 together and posted the info on their own religious forum? Or maybe someone saw you at the RCC and shared that observation?

What you realized as truth in the RCC will be no less the truth simply because your former church elite are now showering you with attention that they didn’t formerly bestow. Why going out of their way? Why now?

Satan’s goal is to keep us from Christ. Preventing us from following the RCC, instituted by Christ, Himself, is a win for Satan, so expect many interruptions from him, the Master Deceiver.

Praying for you and your wife.
 
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@MiserereMei

My heart goes out to you, TNMan, and converts throughout the world.

Satan will throw wrenches when possible, which only adds to your anxiety over making the right decision.

As always, you have my prayers.
 
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