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Crocus
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So close to Pittsburgh! Do you know about the conferences going on there in advance of canonization of Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman?
On the Tiber's shore
- Thread starter OddBird
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Donald_S
Guest
I am not familiar with them as I am only starting the process of coming into the Church. I will look into it because that sounds really interesting
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Crocus
Guest
I’ve been a devotee of JHN, since stumbling upon a rough scanned copy of his New Year’s sermon, Lapse of Time (almost 10 years now). A digital version linked below, from newmanreader.org, the National Institute for Newman Studies.
Thinking of you people, the pain and stress you are going through … your time is truly well spent. You are taking up your appointed cross. I pray you may experience its sweetness, for the taste is of truth.
Lapse of Time
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume7/sermon1.html
2019 Fall Conference
https://www.newmanstudies.org/news-and-events/2019-fall-conference
Thinking of you people, the pain and stress you are going through … your time is truly well spent. You are taking up your appointed cross. I pray you may experience its sweetness, for the taste is of truth.
Lapse of Time
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume7/sermon1.html
2019 Fall Conference
https://www.newmanstudies.org/news-and-events/2019-fall-conference
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HopkinsReb
Guest
(See my avatar)
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Crocus
Guest
I see you. And smile knowingly every time.:hugs:
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Crocus
Guest
I wish someone would make a movie of his life. (I even have in mind the actor to portray him, and fantasize his conversion on the process 
.) Then again, I fear it would not be done well.
(Leave me to my imaginations. 
)
.) Then again, I fear it would not be done well. (Leave me to my imaginations. )
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Crocus
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Calista as a high school play!
So much more depth and meaningful than the secular ones I have witnessed (at Catholic school
).
So much more depth and meaningful than the secular ones I have witnessed (at Catholic school
).
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Lenten_ashes
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Thanks for sharing.
I noticed the Anglicans were a diverse bunch – some practically on Rome’s doorstep; while others were more low church. I guess the same is not true among the Lutherans.
I noticed the Anglicans were a diverse bunch – some practically on Rome’s doorstep; while others were more low church. I guess the same is not true among the Lutherans.
My church actually did that. So now we don’t confirm any more, we just have a “blessing service” and an “end of catechism party”. I’m trying to get rid of it, and go back to a real confirmation. I doubt it will happen though. It’s seen as “uncool” (a colleague even said “intrusive” once) to ask teenagers to tell wether or not they are Christians and want to upheld their baptism’s promises.
Yes.
I’m not sure if you have the same problems in America ; but here, in Europe, where the society is increasingly secular, the biggest temptation churches face is wanting to fit in, to show they’re “relevant”, to prove they’re not “outdated”, that they can “still speak to modern society”. That unfortunately often translates into abandoning things we should cling on for dear life.
My church, on the whole, really does quite a number of things right. But there are some aspects where it gave in to that temptation, and that is the most obvious one. It is so sad.
I’m not sure if you have the same problems in America ; but here, in Europe, where the society is increasingly secular, the biggest temptation churches face is wanting to fit in, to show they’re “relevant”, to prove they’re not “outdated”, that they can “still speak to modern society”. That unfortunately often translates into abandoning things we should cling on for dear life.
My church, on the whole, really does quite a number of things right. But there are some aspects where it gave in to that temptation, and that is the most obvious one. It is so sad.
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Minks
Guest
@OddBird
“ . . . but here, in Europe, where the society is increasingly secular, the biggest temptation churches face is wanting to fit in, to show they’re “relevant,” to prove they’re not “outdated,” that they can “still speak to modern society.”
I believe that some of the cardinals in Vatican II had similar worries. What other reasoning could explain the non-Catholics in advisory positions, and, ultimately, many Catholic Churches looking like non-Catholic churches in design, decor, appointments, music, and watered down to non-existent “catechism” for a few decades?
Maybe it’s my Reformed take on it, but from what I’ve read from the Vatican II documents, I wish my church would be able to be half as assertive about what it believes. I don’t think it knows what it collectively believes any longer.
I don’t doubt that was true in some parts of the world.
But to be honest, these are things of which I have no first-hand knowledge. I grew up in a still overwhelmingly Catholic part of France, and I never witnessed some of the things I hear from here, like tasteless felt banners or disfigured churches or watered-down teaching or irreverent masses (I’m an organist and I’ve played at a fair share of masses, both OF and EF). I’ve heard from both excellent and appalling catechesis, depending mostly on who teaches. Recruitment mistakes happen everywhere.
Here, in the part of Switzerland where I now live, my Reformed church looks with a mix of incomprehension and envy on the Catholic Church, who is, as she should be, quite unapologetic in upholding and asserting what she believes.
Music, now, is another topic and, as an organist, actually one of the biggest reasons I resisted the pull of Rome for so long.
(There, I said it.)
(But why on earth would anyone prefer these sugar-overdose inducing songs to Gregorian chant ?)
(That’s a rhetorical question. I know tastes differ, and some people really love them and feel brought closer to God, and all that
)
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Michael16
Guest
@OddBird,
Things are starting to look bad in my part of the world.
My youngest son asked to go to Mass with me this Sunday and that caused a major talk Monday morning.
Now, my family wants to do a comparative interpretation Bible study with me and my sons so they can hear both sides before they decide whether to be Catholic or Lutheran. Here’s the thing: They want to do it as “ just Christian “ while telling me not to reference Church teaching in my interpretation.
Also, my ex in laws want to give us a portion of my ex wife’s ashes in an urn so my sons can talk to their mother whenever they want. My Mom wants to do it and I don’t.
I talked to Deacon about it and he says it would be unlawful for me to allow this to happen. I fear this’ll cause a split in my family when I put my foot down.
I’ll be meeting Deacon soon and I’m seriously considering whether or not to just move out and ask my parish if someone can watch my sons for me while I’m at work.
Things are starting to look bad in my part of the world.
My youngest son asked to go to Mass with me this Sunday and that caused a major talk Monday morning.
Now, my family wants to do a comparative interpretation Bible study with me and my sons so they can hear both sides before they decide whether to be Catholic or Lutheran. Here’s the thing: They want to do it as “ just Christian “ while telling me not to reference Church teaching in my interpretation.
Also, my ex in laws want to give us a portion of my ex wife’s ashes in an urn so my sons can talk to their mother whenever they want. My Mom wants to do it and I don’t.
I talked to Deacon about it and he says it would be unlawful for me to allow this to happen. I fear this’ll cause a split in my family when I put my foot down.
I’ll be meeting Deacon soon and I’m seriously considering whether or not to just move out and ask my parish if someone can watch my sons for me while I’m at work.
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MiserereMei
Guest
I’m not OddBird, of course, but I’d like to say a few things.
On the other hand, I suggested something similar recently. We are going to go through the Gospels, pericope by pericope and dig into what the text says, looking at the OT references the Evangelists made, looking at the grammar (I will bring insights from the Greek when necessary), and the historical context.
If it is approached as a learning opportunity, then such a Bible study is great. If its purpose is polemical, however, I personally would still join, but would be more cautious, as it could turn sour and risk turning your children from the faith entirely.
I would like to note for the benefit of the reader that a proposition of interpretation apart from Church teaching and tradition is an inherently unLutheran concept, if we judge Lutheranism by its Confessions. The question is on the identity of “Church”. The classic Lutheran understanding of Sola Scriptura is as a guiding principle of the Church’s interpretation, not any individual’s.
I am sorry about that.
Are they allowing themselves to use the Book of Concord? Because if so, that is an unequal arrangement: them able to use Scripture and their tradition, but you are only allowed Scripture? Also, does anyone who wants to participate know any Greek? If not, it can be bogged down by translation differences long before anything doctrinal comes up.
On the other hand, I suggested something similar recently. We are going to go through the Gospels, pericope by pericope and dig into what the text says, looking at the OT references the Evangelists made, looking at the grammar (I will bring insights from the Greek when necessary), and the historical context.
If it is approached as a learning opportunity, then such a Bible study is great. If its purpose is polemical, however, I personally would still join, but would be more cautious, as it could turn sour and risk turning your children from the faith entirely.
I would like to note for the benefit of the reader that a proposition of interpretation apart from Church teaching and tradition is an inherently unLutheran concept, if we judge Lutheranism by its Confessions. The question is on the identity of “Church”. The classic Lutheran understanding of Sola Scriptura is as a guiding principle of the Church’s interpretation, not any individual’s.
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MiserereMei
Guest
There isn’t as much variation among Lutherans. The most difference we noticed at a practical level when my wife and I switched from LCMS to ELCA was that one of our pastors was a woman at the ELCA church.
There is of course, variation. Lutherans run the gamut of being fundamentalist to very liberal. There is a mess of churchliness, with too many Lutheran congregations in the US seemingly eager to abandon their liturgical heritage. The “on the doorstep of Rome” party has comparatively little away among the American synods, but it still exists. I have been historically a conservative member of that party, but as some members of this forum know, I took a plunge into the liberal side for a while.
Going from one class to another at the seminary often requires a drastic mental shift. It seems the more educated the Lutheran, the more idiosyncratic they become.
You are in my prayers, Michael. Family and faith issues are so difficult.
Also, as a child, I would have hated being put in that kind of situation (you’ve heard both sides, now pick one – ie choose between Daddy and Grandma). I would have felt as if I were used in a bargaining chip in the conflict of grown-ups, when a faith decision should be made freely and out of love for God.
How old are they ?
You did a way better job than I would have.
This. To be honest I’d be wary about that kind of comparative Bible study, if your family situation is as tense as it appears from your posts. I’d be afraid your sons end up hating the faith for the tensions it caused among those they love.
Also, as a child, I would have hated being put in that kind of situation (you’ve heard both sides, now pick one – ie choose between Daddy and Grandma). I would have felt as if I were used in a bargaining chip in the conflict of grown-ups, when a faith decision should be made freely and out of love for God.
How old are they ?
You did a way better job than I would have.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
internally screamingMiserereMei:
My church actually did that. So now we don’t confirm any more, we just have a “blessing service” and an “end of catechism party”. I’m trying to get rid of it, and go back to a real confirmation. I doubt it will happen though. It’s seen as “uncool” (a colleague even said “intrusive” once) to ask teenagers to tell wether or not they are Christians and want to upheld their baptism’s promises.
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