Once Saved, Always Saved?

[MGLechner]

The book of Revelation (the Apocalypse for you Traditionalist Catholics ) has an interesting proclamation by our Lord, which seems to speak to this whole issue of OSAS.

In Revelation 3.5 we read: “Those who prove victorious will be dressed…in white robes; I will not blot their names out of the book of life, but will acknowledge their names to my Father and his angels.”

The implications of this text is clear. If you live a victorious (faithful) life, your name will remain in the book of life.

If you fail to live victoriously, then your name will be “blotted out” of the book of life.

Actually, in the letters to the seven Churches found in the book of Revelation, there is repeated reference to removing lampstands if the churches addressed do not repent. Only two churches (Smyrna and Philadelphia) remained constant and faithful with no need of repentance. Now, I may be way out in left field here (is it Baseball Season, yet?) but I interpret the removing of lampstands as concomitant with losing one’s salvation. But in this case, whole communities of unrepentant, unfaithful Christians are being warned of the consequences if they fail to repent!

 

[DD2007]

OSAS is just another way to describe the elect. There is certainly an elect that is talked about much in scripture. For the Elect there will not be damnation. They have been chosen by God to be His people and nothing can stop that. So in essence yes, OSAS is true.

The kicker is who are the elect?

 

[DD2007]

I did a word search for elect in the new testament using the RSV search engine: quod.lib.umich.edu/r/rsv/simple.html

Results:

Matt.24
[22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
[24] For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[31] and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark.13
[20] And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
[22] False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
[27] And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Luke.18
[7] And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?

Rom.8
[33] Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies;

Rom.9
[11] though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God’s purpose of** election** might continue, not because of works but because of his call,

Rom.11
[7] What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The** elect **obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
[28] As regards the gospel they are enemies of God, for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

1Tim.5
[21] In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without favor, doing nothing from partiality.

2Tim.2
[10] Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain salvation in Christ Jesus with its eternal glory.

Tit.1
[1] Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness,

2Pet.1
[10] Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall;

2John.1
[1] The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth, and not only I but also all who know the truth,
[13] The children of your elect sister greet you.

 

[NotWorthy]

I did a word search for elect in the new testament using the RSV search engine: quod.lib.umich.edu/r/rsv/simple.html

Results:

Matt.24
[22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
[24] For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[31] and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark.13
[20] And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
[22] False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
[27] And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Luke.18
[7] And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?

Rom.8
[33] Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies;

Rom.9
[11] though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God’s purpose of** election** might continue, not because of works but because of his call,

Rom.11
[7] What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The** elect **obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
[28] As regards the gospel they are enemies of God, for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

1Tim.5
[21] In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without favor, doing nothing from partiality.

2Tim.2
[10] Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain salvation in Christ Jesus with its eternal glory.

Tit.1
[1] Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth which accords with godliness,

2Pet.1
[10] Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall;

2John.1
[1] The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth, and not only I but also all who know the truth,
[13] The children of your elect sister greet you.

What are they “elected” for, exactly? It doesn’t say heaven. It says for holiness.

Just look at 2 Peter 1:10 that you referenced. Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall;

They are called and elected, but they must be zealous to confirm their call and election. It’s not simply “You are of the elect, therefore you will go to heaven”.

Remember, God wants all of us to go to heaven, not just the “elect”. Or is this doctrine of “election” like Animal Farm? All pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others?

 

[NotWorthy]

OSAS is just another way to describe the elect. There is certainly an elect that is talked about much in scripture. For the Elect there will not be damnation. They have been chosen by God to be His people and nothing can stop that. So in essence yes, OSAS is true.

The kicker is who are the elect?

In essence, OSAS is nothing but false security, and should be abandoned. What does Jesus mean when He tells the Apostles that those who don’t remain in Him will be cut away and thrown into the fire.

 

[DD2007]

Romans 9:13-33

[13] As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
[14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!
[15] For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
[16] So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy.
[17] For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.”
[18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.
[19] You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?”
[20] But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me thus?”
[21] Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?
[22] What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction,
[23] in order to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory,
[24] even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
[25] As indeed he says in Hose’a, “Those who were not my people
I will call my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call my beloved.’”
[26] “And in the very place where it was said to them, You are not my people,' they will be called sons of the living God.’”
[27] And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved;
[28] for the Lord will execute his sentence upon the earth with rigor and dispatch.”
[29] And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us children,
we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor’rah.”
[30] What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, righteousness through faith;
[31] but that Israel who pursued the righteousness which is based on law did not succeed in fulfilling that law.
[32] Why? Because they did not pursue it through faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
[33] as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make men stumble,
a rock that will make them fall;
and he who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

I believe that God is soverigen and has predestined His elect for salvation. The elect simply will be saved because God has made sure of it.

 

[NotWorthy]

I believe that God is soverigen and has predestined His elect for salvation. The elect simply will be saved because God has made sure of it.

So, again, I ask you. God wishes all of us to get to heaven. How does this fit into the elect process?

 

[DD2007]

So, again, I ask you. God wishes all of us to get to heaven. How does this fit into the elect process?

Read Thomas Aquinas. His and John Calvin’s ideas on this were almost identical.

God does wish for all to be saved and he gets no pleasure when one isn’t saved. However he has elected some to certainly be saved. And we cannot put ourselves in the judgement seat over God. This is His creation and he will do with it as is good. We know God is good and that His plan is good. It is good that he elects some for salvation and mercy. It is good he leaves some to justice. We know this because we trust that God is good and have faith in Him.

Psalms 100:5

[5] For the LORD is good;
his steadfast love endures for ever,
and his faithfulness to all generations.

John 10:24-31

[24] So the Jews gathered round him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
[25] Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness to me;
[26] but you do not believe, **because you do not belong to my sheep. **
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
[28] and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[30] I and the Father are one.”
[31] The Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Romans 8:28-39

[28] We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, **who are called **according to his purpose.
[29] For those whom **he foreknew **he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
[30] **And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. **
[31] What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?
[32] He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?
[33] Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
[34] who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us?
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[36] As it is written, “For thy sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
[37] No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
[38] For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
[39] nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So if we trust in God and follow Christ we have nothing to worry about.

 

[po18guy]

Speaking of parables, I wonder what it was that Jesus said that had nothing to do with salvation? As much as He was involved with woodworking, He said nothing in scripture about either the easiest or most difficult wood to work with. So, it seems that every word He uttered was germane to our salvation.

The explanation of the parable of the sower comes to mind (Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8) How about those who accept the Word at once with great joy, but as soon as persecution comes, they fall away (Matthew 13:21-22). Isn’t one saved when he “accepts the word with joy”? To me, that sounds like a functional description of “saved” by the OSAS bunch. To 'Fall away" from being saved, as Jesus taught, no longer sounds like “saved” to me - otherwise, why would He have cautioned us about falling away? OSAS asserts that you cannot “fall away”. Who are they listening to?

Again, Saint Peter (2 Peter 2:20) spoke of souls who escaped the corruption of this world by knowing Jesus Christ, (“saved”) but who are then lured away from the faith and swallowed up by the cares of the world. Being “worse off at the end than at the beginning” as Peter taught does not sound like they are always saved. Again, except for loss of salvation, why would Peter even mention this?

Also, does not OSAS put our Lord to the test by essentialy “daring” Him to save us in spite of sins we commit once we are saved? Last I checked, testing the Lord was definitely not recommended (Matthew 4:7, Luke 4:12).

I would love to see the OSAS pretzel logic used to run around these teachings from sacred scripture.

 

[DD2007]

Speaking of parables, I wonder what it was that Jesus said that had nothing to do with salvation? As much as He was involved with woodworking, He said nothing in scripture about either the easiest or most difficult wood to work with. So, it seems that every word He uttered was germane to our salvation.

The explanation of the parable of the sower comes to mind (Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8) How about those who accept the Word at once with great joy, but as soon as persecution comes, they fall away (Matthew 13:21-22). Isn’t one saved when he “accepts the word with joy”? To me, that sounds like a functional description of “saved” by the OSAS bunch. To 'Fall away" from being saved, as Jesus taught, no longer sounds like “saved” to me - otherwise, why would He have cautioned us about falling away? OSAS asserts that you cannot “fall away”. Who are they listening to?

Again, Saint Peter (2 Peter 2:20) spoke of souls who escaped the corruption of this world by knowing Jesus Christ, (“saved”) but who are then lured away from the faith and swallowed up by the cares of the world. Being “worse off at the end than at the beginning” as Peter taught does not sound like they are always saved. Again, except for loss of salvation, why would Peter even mention this?

Also, does not OSAS put our Lord to the test by essentialy “daring” Him to save us in spite of sins we commit once we are saved? Last I checked, testing the Lord was definitely not recommended (Matthew 4:7, Luke 4:12).

I would love to see the OSAS pretzel logic used to run around these teachings from sacred scripture.

Again, using simple terms like OSAS that some Southern Baptist probably came up with doesn’t adequately describe what is trying to be said by them.

They are talking about the elect. If one is part of the elect which everyone hopes they are they will certainly persevere because they are predestined to do so, per Romans Chapter 8 and many other parts of the NT.

It doesn’t mean sin all you want, because desiring the things of God and that His will be done comes from Grace! If you don’t desire these things it is indicitive that you have not been given saving faith.

So the elect will persevere.

 

[po18guy]

Again, using simple terms like OSAS that some Southern Baptist probably came up with doesn’t adequately describe what is trying to be said by them.

They are talking about the elect. If one is part of the elect which everyone hopes they are they will certainly persevere because they are predestined to do so, per Romans Chapter 8 and many other parts of the NT.

It doesn’t mean sin all you want, because desiring the things of God and that His will be done comes from Grace! If you don’t desire these things it is indicitive that you have not been given saving faith.

So the elect will persevere.

Although Christ does not use the exact term “elect”, who else is He speaking of when he cautions against falling away? You cannot fall away unless you are one of the elect. You are either in or out. Right? Or, is there a “third way” to the Kingdom?

 

[NotWorthy]

Then you can replace “How do you know that you are saved” to “How do you know that you are of the elect”?

 

[DD2007]

Although Christ does not use the exact term “elect”, who else is He speaking of when he cautions against falling away? You cannot fall away unless you are one of the elect. You are either in or out. Right? Or, is there a “third way” to the Kingdom?

Not at all. You are either one of the elect and will be saved for sure. Or you are not. Christ left us guidance. The Elect will not fall away. If a person does at some time in their lives appear to be an elect and then fall away it simply means they were in fact not a part of God’s elect.

So, we are to do our best to follow God with an honest heart. We should trust in Him. His soverign will will be done.

 

[po18guy]

Not at all. You are either one of the elect and will be saved for sure. Or you are not. Christ left us guidance. The Elect will not fall away. If a person does at some time in their lives appear to be an elect and then fall away it simply means they were in fact not a part of God’s elect.

So, we are to do our best to follow God with an honest heart. We should trust in Him. His soverign will will be done.

Your theology leaves the door wide open that all of the elect are possibly self-deceived, and not saved at all. Are you are saying that no one knows their salvation for sure until they receive judgment?!? If you are not, then how can you say some were not saved in the first place, if there is no objective test for salvation? How is any of us to know? We could all be deceived by the evil one.

 

[paul_c]

Not at all. You are either one of the elect and will be saved for sure. Or you are not. Christ left us guidance. The Elect will not fall away. If a person does at some time in their lives appear to be an elect and then fall away it simply means they were in fact not a part of God’s elect.

So, we are to do our best to follow God with an honest heart. We should trust in Him. His soverign will will be done.

Lets take this to a more practical level. There is no way that you will definitively know that you are “elected” by God, until the Day you die, correct? Remember, not everyone that calls, Lord, Lord, will come to eternal life, only those that do the will of the Father.

So the question is, how do the elect act? Do they simply presume they are saved and do what ever they please? I feel confident in saying that those that are elect will not act that way. The elect will do everything they can to live a moral life, loving God and loving his Neighbor, just as Christ prescribed when asked by the Rich man what it took to gain eternal life. They will persevere in the Faith, working continuously to align their will with Gods, demonstrating their faith through Good works. Thus they will be cooperating with God’s plans. And the irony of it is the closer they get to true holiness, the more they will be aware of their failings and consequently, they will redouble their efforts and on judgement day, they will humbly beg God’s forgiveness.

In the end, it is a “chicken and the egg” question. Does God save us because we are righteous or are we righteous because God saved us. The humble, and thus most likely correct answer, is that we are righteous because God saved us. Nevertheless, we still need to endeavor to be righteous, because we need to be that way to be saved.

 

[DD2007]

Your theology leaves the door wide open that all of the elect are possibly self-deceived, and not saved at all. Are you are saying that no one knows their salvation for sure until they receive judgment?!? If you are not, then how can you say some were not saved in the first place, if there is no objective test for salvation? How is any of us to know? We could all be deceived by the evil one.

Read this in detail:

Romans 8:28-39

[28] We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
[29] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
[30] And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
[31] What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?
[32] He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?
[33] Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
[34] who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us?
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[36] As it is written, “For thy sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
[37] No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
[38] For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
[39] nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I didn’t just make any of this up. There is an elect. They will be saved.

Now, you are heading down the right path if you want to argue with a Baptist. It is true that OSAS is true in the sense that the elect is a soundly biblical doctrine.

The kicker, as I stated in my first post in this thread is “who are the elect.” This is where you should focus your attention. We are to trust in God and follow Him that is true and our works will be evidence of the grace given us. However, who is absolutley certain they are a member of the elect and will persevere? There is assurance that God is true to His word and if we seek Him we will find Him.

Where the Baptists raise eyebrows with their explaination of the elect as OSAS is that they are telling people that they are indeed this elect because the fact that they asked Christ to save them is evident that they have ben given the grace to do so. And that is indeed true, however it does not mean that they are to sin freely. If a person finds himself/herself desiring that the will of God be done and puts off sins and works for the good they can be assured that they are doing the things the elect do and if they continue in this they will be with the Lord in heaven. So, the saying that’s God’s elect will persever is absolutley true becasue he will certainly give them the required grace to make it through.

 

[DD2007]

The point of assurance is best made by reading the entire 6th Chapter of Romans. Don’t worry. It’s short. Please read this in detail as well as the passage in the above post.

Rom.6
[1] What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
[2] By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
[3] Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[4] We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
[6] We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
[7] For he who has died is freed from sin.
[8] But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.
[9] For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
[10] The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
[11] So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions.
[13] Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness.
[14] For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
[15] What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
[16] Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
[17] But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
[18] and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
[19] I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification.
[20] When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
[21] But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death.
[22] But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.
[23] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[po18guy]

Read this in detail:

Romans 8:28-39

[28] We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
[29] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
[30] And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
[31] What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?
[32] He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?
[33] Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
[34] who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us?
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[36] As it is written, “For thy sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
[37] No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
[38] For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
[39] nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I didn’t just make any of this up. There is an elect. They will be saved.

Now, you are heading down the right path if you want to argue with a Baptist. It is true that OSAS is true in the sense that the elect is a soundly biblical doctrine.

The kicker, as I stated in my first post in this thread is “who are the elect.” This is where you should focus your attention. We are to trust in God and follow Him that is true and our works will be evidence of the grace given us. However, who is absolutley certain they are a member of the elect and will persevere? There is assurance that God is true to His word and if we seek Him we will find Him.

Where the Baptists raise eyebrows with their explaination of the elect as OSAS is that they are telling people that they are indeed this elect because the fact that they asked Christ to save them is evident that they have ben given the grace to do so. And that is indeed true, however it does not mean that they are to sin freely. If a person finds himself/herself desiring that the will of God be done and puts off sins and works for the good they can be assured that they are doing the things the elect do and if they continue in this they will be with the Lord in heaven. So, the saying that’s God’s elect will persever is absolutley true becasue he will certainly give them the required grace to make it through.

Romans. Been there. Read that. But, there’s more to scripture, more to salvation than just Romans, right? Jesus used the term “elect”, which is why I believe it. But, Paul also advised the elect to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. This in itself totally negates the faulty concept of OSAS. What about the scriptures I mentioned? Can’t disregard them. They are inspired/inerrant and we are commanded to read and follow them, right?

Why persevere if you are already saved? No reason to. It’s the old “Me and Jesus” fallacy of an insular faith detached from the entirety of salvation and from the Church which Christ Himself founded. We have a relationship to all of the elect, and a responsibility to those who are not. IMO.

 

[paul_c]

The point of assurance is best made by reading the entire 6th Chapter of Romans. Don’t worry. It’s short. Please read this in detail as well as the passage in the above post.

Rom.6
[1] What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
[2] By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
[3] Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
[4] We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
[6] We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
[7] For he who has died is freed from sin.
[8] But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.
[9] For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
[10] The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
[11] So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions.
[13] Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness.
[14] For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
[15] What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
[16] Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
[17] But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
[18] and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
[19] I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, **so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. **[20] When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
[21] But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death.
[22] But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, **the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. **[23] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Anyone who interprets this to mean that they have been saved without yielding to righteousness for sanctification is decieving themselves. Paul is saying that the return you get from living in righteousness is eternal life. He is also pointing out that if you sin, you die (i.e, don’t get internal life)

So since you have the potential to sin until you die, you are not guaranteed eternal life, until you complete this one

 

[po18guy]

The point of assurance is best made by reading the entire 6th Chapter of Romans. Don’t worry. It’s short. Please read this in detail as well as the passage in the above post.

You are being presumptuous that Catholics have not read Romans. It also identifies your faith tradition. We do not rely on only one book out of 73 for our salvation. There’s more to it - much more. Our entire lifetime, actually.