Parents miss Mass, kids get ax

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Great priest. These parents are more upset with this good priest, than with their failure to form their children in the faith, not to mention the state of their own souls considering they may not have a serious reason to miss mass. One more sign of the times.
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The reaction of the mother reminds me so much of my students at High School. having been reminded several times to get their assignment in on time, advised of the need to obtain an extension well in advance and given many warnings about the consequences, many still turn up on the day the assignment is due and plead all sorts of extenuating circumstances which they only now realised which made it impossible for them to hand in the work on the day. The reality of course is that having failed to finish their work on time because they were busy doing other more exciting things they have to come up with an excuse or be failed. They are often quite creative. The problem is of course that all of the excuses could have been discussed earlier if they were in fact true. The sudden raising of them when faced with a failed assignment generally is not conducive to belief.
 
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walstan:
I have a much more interesting question:

How come the “Pastor” had to send a letter to the kids parents? If he was the “Pastor” of the community why didn’t he know there was illness in the family? does he not keep up to date with his flock? When he sees people missing or chidren not attending formation classes doesn’t he go round to the house to find out what’s wrong?
I have a feeling he’s lost touch with the relationship between “Pastor” and “Pastoral Care”. I would have thought that good pastoral care would have avoided this situation in the first place, or is that just wishful thinking?
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First of all, this is a two-way street. If people don’t want help and don’t seek help, how is a Pastor to know? I live in a very large parish, and its a lot like being part of a very large family; the parents love all the children equally, but the “squeaky wheel gets the grease” so to speak. This is especially true if your children do not attend the parish school, which is usually the case with CCD families. In other words, if I have a problem I know that I have to go to the priests and not wait around for them to check in on us (our children don’t attend the parish school). Families with children in the parish school get priority simply because they are directly involved with the parish and its functions in a way that other parish members are not.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
A good shepherd goes out and find lost sheep.

He doesn’t shoo away marginal ones.

Shame on yet another Church official trying to use a “get tough” approach to teaching love.

This is an abortive, contraceptive mentality. My sheep are not cooperating so I kick them further out.

It is spiritual abortion. We teach this to the kids and our next generation is sure to remember what the Catholics did when the chips were down.

We try to manipulate the parents by threats to their kids, but the parents don’t get it and the kids get hurt. Those with parents who don’t take responsibility to get them have an extra need to learn religion, idiot.

What an assh*le. I guess the Body of Christ has some of those both with and without collars.

I don’t admire a leader who plays power games by withholding Catholic education from children. Let’s not make excuses for him. He should be aghast to have such press that he shoos away children.

I’ve seen this mentality before. Hey, the kids’ parents aren’t raising them Catholic enough so let’s punish them by not educating their sorry brood. Then at the same time they wonder why young people leave the Church and whine, “how can we get young people to stay in Church.” One way is to make them feel welcome when they are young like Christ did, rather than use them as political power pawns for a pathetic priestly practice of punishment.

Alan
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What’s this about?
 
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ByzCath:
If they have been taught that missing Mass on Sundays and Holidays is a mortal sin and they choose not to go, even if their parents are already not going, then they are guilty.
/QUOTE]

ByzCath, could you explain this a little more? I’m not sure I’m understanding you correctly. If a child can not drive, and the church is far, how can they CHOOSE not to go if Mom and Dad do not take them? With my First Communion kids, I stress that it is not a sin for them at this time if their parents do not take them to Mass. However, when they are able to get themselves to Mass and choose not to go, then it is a mortal sin.

Perhaps I have a different view as I live in a rural area–the closest church is about 7 miles away.
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Giannawannabe:
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ByzCath:
If they have been taught that missing Mass on Sundays and Holidays is a mortal sin and they choose not to go, even if their parents are already not going, then they are guilty.
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ByzCath, could you explain this a little more? I’m not sure I’m understanding you correctly. If a child can not drive, and the church is far, how can they CHOOSE not to go if Mom and Dad do not take them? With my First Communion kids, I stress that it is not a sin for them at this time if their parents do not take them to Mass. However, when they are able to get themselves to Mass and choose not to go, then it is a mortal sin.

Perhaps I have a different view as I live in a rural area–the closest church is about 7 miles away.
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Just becuase you are limited by some external circumstance it does not mean that you can not make a choice in the matter.

So, you can not get to Mass for some reason, lets say you live 20 miles away from the nearest Church and your car is broken down and you can not get it fixed until Monday but if the car was working you still would chose not go to Mass. Then even though you could not physically get there, you are still guilty of a mortal sin.

So in this case, even though the child’s parents are not going to Mass and they will not take the child there, if the child still intellectually makes the choice that they would not go if they could, then they are guilty of a mortal sin.

Is that better?
 
I was so excited to see a priest take a stand and not feel like his hands are tied with our society that wants everything done “their” way or they’ll leave.

I also teach CCD and have heard all the excuses given for missing Mass. If you have an ill family member then you should be at Mass! I would be surprised if a family attended somewhere else that they would be kicked out as you would be able to see in the child that they know their stuff. I also feel pretty confident that the terms were laid out (as they usually are) and the cafeteria Catholics thought it was a bluff.

How frustrating it is to have a child in class that doesn’t want to be there. Then to reward with the Eucharist for the family to abuse while they decide whether or not to go to Mass… is appalling! Your soul needs to be prepared for receiving our Precious Lord as someone who prepares for a “big day”.

I bet if these families blew work off like that they would be fired. This is your salvation and the most important~!

I pray that these families will see that the discipline is for their souls and re-register with a mission! We need more solid Catholic foundation to defend the faith and growth thereafter… there’s enough wishy washiness!
 
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ByzCath:
Just becuase you are limited by some external circumstance it does not mean that you can not make a choice in the matter.

So, you can not get to Mass for some reason, lets say you live 20 miles away from the nearest Church and your car is broken down and you can not get it fixed until Monday but if the car was working you still would chose not go to Mass. Then even though you could not physically get there, you are still guilty of a mortal sin.

So in this case, even though the child’s parents are not going to Mass and they will not take the child there, if the child still intellectually makes the choice that they would not go if they could, then they are guilty of a mortal sin.

Is that better?
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:yup: Much. Thank you.
 
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Lurch104:
I really hope that all of you who support this action are also putting your money where your mouth is. Why don’t you make a personal effort to reach out to these families and their children. Live up to your baptismal vows. I am willing to listen if anyone has a better idea then just shutting out these families.
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Forgive me if someone else has suggested this, but I personally would love it if the priests would teach Catechism to ALL the people present each Sunday. How many adults have no clue what it means to be Catholic? I was shocked to find out that even Catholics can have a “personal” relationship with Jesus. As a cradle-Catholic, educated 12 years in Catholic schools, I only learned the very basic do’s and don’ts, but the evils of contraception, being judgemental, materialism, seeking pleasure and avoiding suffering…all those things that lay beneath the surface were never covered. I’m just learning them now thanks to EWTN and Catholic radio. What a beautiful thing is the Catholic faith. I’ve never been happier, nor more determined.

So, I vote that Catechism be taught at mass. Amen.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
A good shepherd goes out and find lost sheep.

He doesn’t shoo away marginal ones.

Shame on yet another Church official trying to use a “get tough” approach to teaching love.

This is an abortive, contraceptive mentality. My sheep are not cooperating so I kick them further out.

It is spiritual abortion. We teach this to the kids and our next generation is sure to remember what the Catholics did when the chips were down.

We try to manipulate the parents by threats to their kids, but the parents don’t get it and the kids get hurt. Those with parents who don’t take responsibility to get them have an extra need to learn religion, idiot.
I don’t admire a leader who plays power games by withholding Catholic education from children. Let’s not make excuses for him. He should be aghast to have such press that he shoos away children.

I’ve seen this mentality before. Hey, the kids’ parents aren’t raising them Catholic enough so let’s punish them by not educating their sorry brood. Then at the same time they wonder why young people leave the Church and whine, “how can we get young people to stay in Church.” One way is to make them feel welcome when they are young like Christ did, rather than use them as political power pawns for a pathetic priestly practice of punishment.

Alan
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Sorry Alan,

You have it backward. The parents are the source of the problem. It is like blaming your physician for your obesity when he tells you that he can no longer treat you properly if you fail to follow his recommendations. The onus is on you to reform.

These families are more than welcome in the Church and at mass, but why should the pastor enable lazy parents? He is calling them to reform.
 
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InnocentIII:
The reaction of the mother reminds me so much of my students at High School. having been reminded several times to get their assignment in on time, advised of the need to obtain an extension well in advance and given many warnings about the consequences, many still turn up on the day the assignment is due and plead all sorts of extenuating circumstances which they only now realised which made it impossible for them to hand in the work on the day. The reality of course is that having failed to finish their work on time because they were busy doing other more exciting things they have to come up with an excuse or be failed. They are often quite creative. The problem is of course that all of the excuses could have been discussed earlier if they were in fact true. The sudden raising of them when faced with a failed assignment generally is not conducive to belief.
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To be sure, it is very disingenuous for the parents to act shocked when they have been shown the error of their ways. Is it really too much to ask that the parents start acting Catholic?
 
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SueG:
Forgive me if someone else has suggested this, but I personally would love it if the priests would teach Catechism to ALL the people present each Sunday. How many adults have no clue what it means to be Catholic? I was shocked to find out that even Catholics can have a “personal” relationship with Jesus. As a cradle-Catholic, educated 12 years in Catholic schools, I only learned the very basic do’s and don’ts, but the evils of contraception, being judgemental, materialism, seeking pleasure and avoiding suffering…all those things that lay beneath the surface were never covered. I’m just learning them now thanks to EWTN and Catholic radio. What a beautiful thing is the Catholic faith. I’ve never been happier, nor more determined.

So, I vote that Catechism be taught at mass. Amen.
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I have thought about this for years. I think it would be great!
 
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geojack:
I have thought about this for years. I think it would be great!
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While not part of Mass, some Parishes are using the “Generations of Faith” model for religious education. Parents take the class with their children.
 
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fix:
Sorry Alan,

You have it backward. The parents are the source of the problem. It is like blaming your physician for your obesity when he tells you that he can no longer treat you properly if you fail to follow his recommendations. The onus is on you to reform.

These families are more than welcome in the Church and at mass, but why should the pastor enable lazy parents? He is calling them to reform.
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I’ll agree the parents are the problem. The question is, what is a strategic response for a Church to take toward that child, if the child’s best spiritual interest is at stake?

Is it to tell the child he has to go home and whip his parents into line or else be banished to the “group W bench” as it were? Or is it to show the parents that we have control over their children and if you let them stray too far out, we will Show You Who’s Boss and take away the rest of the spiritual food that you haven’t already.

It’s a power struggle. If you don’t take care of your child, I will shun them from any Catholic involvement at all and Show You Who’s Boss.

That is a totally worldly solution by and for worldly minds to a spiritual problem. Not likely a strategic approach.

Not that it’s sinful or unauthorized. Hey the guy can tell everybody who misses more than once every three months to leave the Church and be condemned every week during his sermon and there’s nothing I’m going to do about it unless his bishop does.

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
I’ll agree the parents are the problem. The question is, what is a strategic response for a Church to take toward that child, if the child’s best spiritual interest is at stake?

Is it to tell the child he has to go home and whip his parents into line or else be banished to the “group W bench” as it were? Or is it to show the parents that we have control over their children and if you let them stray too far out, we will Show You Who’s Boss and take away the rest of the spiritual food that you haven’t already.
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Alan,
I had to stop here.

It is the responsibility of the parents to see that their children are brought up in the faith. The Church is here to assist.

“We” do not have any control over their children.

If the parents are not Catholics then they can not have any expectation that the Church will allow them to treat the Chuch as a social institution.

If they wish to raise their children as Catholics then they must be Catholics for the best way to teach is to do. If a child hears one thing in CCD but sees their parent doing the exact opposite, what do you think that is teaching the children?

As St Francis said, Preach the gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.

This priest is doing so in a very powerful way. He is showing these children that what the Church teaches is very important and that it matters. If he did nothing or even worse goes back on this then he is sending a message that is just as powerful but in the wrong direction, he would be telling these children that the Church doesn’t matter, just do whatever you want.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
I’ll agree the parents are the problem. The question is, what is a strategic response for a Church to take toward that child, if the child’s best spiritual interest is at stake?

Is it to tell the child he has to go home and whip his parents into line or else be banished to the “group W bench” as it were? Or is it to show the parents that we have control over their children and if you let them stray too far out, we will Show You Who’s Boss and take away the rest of the spiritual food that you haven’t already.

It’s a power struggle. If you don’t take care of your child, I will shun them from any Catholic involvement at all and Show You Who’s Boss.

That is a totally worldly solution by and for worldly minds to a spiritual problem. Not likely a strategic approach.

Not that it’s sinful or unauthorized. Hey the guy can tell everybody who misses more than once every three months to leave the Church and be condemned every week during his sermon and there’s nothing I’m going to do about it unless his bishop does.

Alan
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Wild exaggerations. Why is that in today’s environment any little expression of correction is seen as driving people away or forever traumatizing? I wanna say gimme a break. These parents should be ashamed.The poor priest wants what is best for the souls in his care and instead he gets complaints and whining from those who have no legitimate reason to complain and should feel regret for what they are doing to their kids.
 
BigPaulie said:
:amen: Amen to Rev. Michael Cichon. This is a problem in many parishes. What good is CCD if the family isn’t even attending weekly Mass? Thank God for Pope Benedict’s new evangelization! God Bless Father Cichon. Sincerely,Big Paulie :tiphat:
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I know this will sound cliche’, but what would Jesus do?

but Jesus said, “Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matt 19:14

If I were still Catholic, this story is precisly the kind of thing that would make me quit (again).

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
I know this will sound cliche’, but what would Jesus do?

but Jesus said, “Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matt 19:14

If I were still Catholic, this story is precisly the kind of thing that would make me quit (again).

Nohome
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Well, nohome, please come home. Don’t let the human failings of those in the Church keep you away from her.
 
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ByzCath:
Alan,
I had to stop here.

It is the responsibility of the parents to see that their children are brought up in the faith. The Church is here to assist.

“We” do not have any control over their children.
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Yes, we do in this instance. We can continue to teach them the Catholic faith even though they don’t get it at home, or we can deny them that service.
If the parents are not Catholics then they can not have any expectation that the Church will allow them to treat the Chuch as a social institution.
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If they wish to raise their children as Catholics then they must be Catholics for the best way to teach is to do. If a child hears one thing in CCD but sees their parent doing the exact opposite, what do you think that is teaching the children?
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You’re right. We don’t want them to hear the truth in CCD (called PSR at our parish now) which might conflict with their slackers-for-parents. Best kick them out of CCD so they can get a consistent message at home. Now how is this for the child’s best interests again?
As St Francis said, Preach the gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.
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This priest is doing so in a very powerful way. He is showing these children that what the Church teaches is very important and that it matters. If he did nothing or even worse goes back on this then he is sending a message that is just as powerful but in the wrong direction, he would be telling these children that the Church doesn’t matter, just do whatever you want.
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Yes, he has shown a thing or two to these children. Their parents are scum, and because of that the Church wants nothing to do with them until their parents shape up.

Alan
 
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fix:
Wild exaggerations. Why is that in today’s environment any little expression of correction is seen as driving people away or forever traumatizing? I wanna say gimme a break. These parents should be ashamed.The poor priest wants what is best for the souls in his care and instead he gets complaints and whining from those who have no legitimate reason to complain and should feel regret for what they are doing to their kids.
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Yes, I’ve seen it happen. You’re talking about parents who are marginal anyway. Their child’s soul is at stake here, and we’re playing tug-of-war over the child.

Maybe the “poor” priest wants what is best for the souls. I don’t question that. I’m saying he’s going about it using satan’s tools of pushing children away because their parents don’t measure up to our standards of “good Catholic.”

Maybe the poor priest might consider reading the Good News and realize that we have love and forgiveness now as tools, and not just judgment and wrath in the NT.

Sure, the parents should be ashamed. So should this priest. When Jesus asked who failed to guide this little one, we’ll just say, “we washed our hands of that child. If the child doesn’t know God, it’s the parents’ fault. How could we have done anything because we didn’t want to look weak? Nyah, nyah, nyah, parents.”

Alan
 
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