pasted on skin tight pants!

[Karin]

if you don’t want to post and don’t want it to continue why add to it? if you think its boring then don’t add your replies to it. i enjoy the posts here personally, be the agreeable or not. why do we have this forum then if people just want the post to be shut down because its not to their liking that it is continuing?

some folks feel that the whole TC Forum should go away

 

[tcraig]

the dress code is that women wear long sleeves on dresses or blouses, long skirts or dresses below the knee, and a head covering, be it a hat or a mantilla, or scarf. men wear suits, or dress pants and and long sleeves over their elbows. no jeans.
men do not wear t shirts to our Mass, they wear long sleeved
dress shirts. or a plain long sleeved shirt.

And this is far stricter than the Vatican’s dress code. Modesty is always an important issue, but one wonders why the SSPX dictates dresses/skirts only for women and mandatory headcovering and no blue jeans for men.

I have been involved in traditionalist circles for quite some time, and it is only in the SSPX that one sees such explicit dress codes that ultimately have nothing to do with modesty.

 

[fix]

Dear fix,

thank you phrasing that in the form of a question. You have respected me by not putting words or intentions into my mouth, and I am quite grateful to you for that.

Of course correction is allowed in God’s Church. As has been pointed out, it is one of the Spiritual Acts of Mercy.

The issue at hand is not correction. It is the appropriateness of the correction. If this woman were an aquaintance of the OP, or a family member, I would have said, “good for you, OP!” But as a stranger, never having seen this woman before, it was not her place to say a word to the offensively dressed woman. Damage could be done beyond the OP’s ability to repair. Say something to an usher or to Father? of course.

Prudence was not a consideration, and is not it seems, on this thread.

I think context and manner need to be considered.

It is a matter or prudence. My point is one can argue that every time someone offers correction the one receiving will make an excuse as to why they are put off by it.

In an ideal situation I agree it would be better for a family member or friend to mention such things, but given the Church has a code and if it was done with discretion and gentleness I would assume good intentions on the part of the OP.

 

[Lucania]

My goodness - I turn around after a couple hours to do some work and this is STILL going on!!???

Where are the mods? And why is this still rambling on? What is the point already?

This poor dead horse is stinking up the place…

:yawn: And it’s just gotten plain boring if you ask me. What else could possibly be said at this point that hasn’t already been said, and said, and said, and said?

~Liza

And you felt like you had to add another post that was relevant to this topic? Why on earth are you posting here?

 

[paramedicgirl]

some folks feel that the whole TC Forum should go away

And all the trads with it.

 

[Anima_Christi]

And this is far stricter than the Vatican’s dress code. Modesty is always an important issue, but one wonders why the SSPX dictates dresses/skirts only for women and mandatory headcovering and no blue jeans for men.

I have been involved in traditionalist circles for quite some time, and it is only in the SSPX that one sees such explicit dress codes that ultimately have nothing to do with modesty.

The Vatican allows bare breasted women in grass skirts to be lectors at papal Masses…so it isn’t saying much to say they are stricter than the Vatican’s dress code.

 

[lizaanne]

some folks feel that the whole TC Forum should go away

No - not go away, just be distributed across all the other already relevant and appropriate categories. Shock and horror, I know!

And I would never want to get rid of the “trads” as someone so sweetly called them, some of my best friends are “trads”! I call them Catholics!

Yeah, I posted here, because it’s a way to waste time between meetings and make you all feel loved and appreciated by giving attention to an insane topic that should have ended after the third page of comments. Oh well, everyone should have their day of fame on the message boards I suppose.

~Liza

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

The Vatican allows bare breasted women in grass skirts to be lectors at papal Masses…so it isn’t saying much to say they are stricter than the Vatican’s dress code.

You are either deliberately or not comparing apples to oranges.

If deliberate, this was uncharitable and delierately out of context. Different cultures emphasize different aspects. The Church is universal and must reach out to all cultures and modesty and humility can be expressed albeit differently in all cultures.

The Pope has a pretty tough job as Vicar of Christ for the billions of Catholics all over the Church Militant. Please use utmost prudence before leveling such a critique.

Sometimes the good news is received in ears that have been raised in an environment all too foreign to our own. All the more reason to rejoice that they can despite these reasons still receive the good news from our Pope.

Thanks.

 

[Marilena]

The Vatican allows bare breasted women in grass skirts to be lectors at papal Masses…so it isn’t saying much to say they are stricter than the Vatican’s dress code.

garrrrr!!!

 

[Marilena]

No - not go away, just be distributed across all the other already relevant and appropriate categories. Shock and horror, I know!

And I would never want to get rid of the “trads” as someone so sweetly called them, some of my best friends are “trads”! I call them Catholics!

Yeah, I posted here, because it’s a way to waste time between meetings and make you all feel loved and appreciated by giving attention to an insane topic that should have ended after the third page of comments. Oh well, everyone should have their day of fame on the message boards I suppose.

~Liza

now that is totally condescending. no one is posting here to be “famous”. i think your trying to get this post shut down correct?

 

[Anima_Christi]

If deliberate, this was uncharitable and delierately out of context. Different cultures emphasize different aspects. The Church is universal and must reach out to all cultures and modesty and humility can be expressed albeit differently in all cultures.

In the beach culture of California and Florida, string bikinis and thongs are emphasized. To reach out to their “culture” is it OK to wear these at Holy Mass? Can we have “Showgirl” Masses in Las Vegas, since that’s a part of their culture? What about Masses with all-nude EMHC’s, cantors, lectors, and servers (not that I believe in any of those things anyway since I’m Trad) in nudist colonies since that’s part of the nudist culture?

 

[maurin]

I think context and manner need to be considered.

It is a matter or prudence. My point is one can argue that every time someone offers correction the one receiving will make an excuse as to why they are put off by it.

In an ideal situation I agree it would be better for a family member or friend to mention such things, but given the Church has a code and if it was done with discretion and gentleness I would assume good intentions on the part of the OP.

There is no doubt in my mind about the good intentions on the part of the OP. But there is also truth in the cliche about good intentions. No way of knowing the lasting effects of the good intentions of a stranger. Better to err on the side of prudence. God, I’m sure, needs not any of us to “take care” of Him.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

In the beach culture of California and Florida, string bikinis and thongs are emphasized. To reach out to their “culture” is it OK to wear these at Holy Mass? Can we have “Showgirl” Masses in Las Vegas, since that’s a part of their culture? What about Masses with all-nude EMHC’s, cantors, lectors, and servers (not that I believe in any of those things anyway since I’m Trad) in nudist colonies since that’s part of the nudist culture?

If you deliberately misappropriate the word culture it will be difficult for us to dialogue

I mean culture as in Western culture versus Papua New Guinea culture versus African Cultures. These cultures will have differing expressions of modesty because they have expressed their cultural sexuality differently for example. Modesty in its form that adapts to cultures, but modesty in substance is a universal virtue.

peace

 

[stinkcat_14]

If you deliberately misappropriate the word culture it will be difficult for us to dialogue

I mean culture as in Western culture versus Papua New Guinea culture versus African Cultures. These cultures will have differing expressions of modesty because they have expressed their cultural sexuality differently for example. Modesty in its form that adapts to cultures, but modesty in substance is a universal virtue.

peace

 

[fix]

There is no doubt in my mind about the good intentions on the part of the OP. But there is also truth in the cliche about good intentions. No way of knowing the lasting effects of the good intentions of a stranger. Better to err on the side of prudence. God, I’m sure, needs not any of us to “take care” of Him.

Is not prudence trying to do the right thing in every situation? You are claiming prudence always dictates saying nothing in such cases? That would be hard to defend.

From the circumstances given by the OP I cannot conclude it would do more harm than good. As I said before it may be a way to open the eyes to something the woman may have been missing. That would be true charity.

Her intentions were good, she did it in a discrete way, and it was done out of concern for the Lord and the good of other people. Any bad conclusion would seem to be the result of the woman not wanting to hear what is true.

 

[Ecce_homo_1]

So let me get this straight you guys are actually defending nude women serving as Cantors and Lecturs at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?

Certainly when these women were catechized they taught about Christian modesty and that the practice of bare breasts or in the males case naked nether regions is not appropriate.

I don’t care if we start evangelizing to Mars, clothes on your private areas really should be area number one we cover when going over teaching the Mass.

 

[paramedicgirl]

In the beach culture of California and Florida, string bikinis and thongs are emphasized. To reach out to their “culture” is it OK to wear these at Holy Mass? Can we have “Showgirl” Masses in Las Vegas, since that’s a part of their culture? What about Masses with all-nude EMHC’s, cantors, lectors, and servers (not that I believe in any of those things anyway since I’m Trad) in nudist colonies since that’s part of the nudist culture?

I know of one Diocese in Ca where it would fly. Named after a fruit, I believe.

 

[maurin]

Is not prudence trying to do the right thing in every situation? You are claiming prudence always dictates saying nothing in such cases? That would be hard to defend.

From the circumstances given by the OP I cannot conclude it would do more harm than good. As I said before it may be a way to open the eyes to something the woman may have been missing. That would be true charity.

Her intentions were good, she did it in a discrete way, and it was done out of concern for the Lord and the good of other people. Any bad conclusion would seem to be the result of the woman not wanting to hear what is true.

now I’m beginning to fear that you are twisting my words.

The best I can tell you is that you misunderstand my posts. I have not said that doing nothing was the prudent thing to do. I have posted already what I believe to have been the prudent thing to do in this case.

Anyone and everyone is free to disagree. The buck certainly does not stop here with me. I am, after all and at the end of the day, a sinner.

 

[AP4Him]

While I agree with the modesty concerns(I head cover and sometimes wear pants, but try to wear mostly modest skirts)…

What if that is all she could afford? The fact that she does not speak english might indicate that she is here as an immigrant, with little or no money. For all we know, this is an outfit, perhaps the only outfit, a shelter could give her for the time being.

Also, perhaps she is seeking Him and is not quite there yet…we can’t expect everyone to be saints from day one, regardless of what is printed on a sheet of paper you all hand out. This day may have been the start of her spiritual journal to sanctity. She may look back, appalled she ever dressed that way(I know I do!!!).

Yes, she needs guidance, but I think getting to the bottom of the situation would be a start, not just addressing her attire.

 

[maurin]

If you deliberately misappropriate the word culture it will be difficult for us to dialogue

I mean culture as in Western culture versus Papua New Guinea culture versus African Cultures. These cultures will have differing expressions of modesty because they have expressed their cultural sexuality differently for example. Modesty in its form that adapts to cultures, but modesty in substance is a universal virtue.

peace

There is a reason that seminarians precede their theological studies with two years of sound philosophy.

You are a philosopher and a gentleman in the best sense!!!