Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report on Catholic sex abuse released

[exnihilo]

You obviously have not read the report. Airing this **** out is GOOD for the Church.

Or you know, you can keep hiding your head in the sand. That’s going to help us out just fine.

I read some of. It. I read the first page. The way it starts out tells me this is a witch hunt. That doesn’t mean there aren’t truths in the document. It does mean truth and fairness aren’t the objective.

Instead of expecting everyone else to tell you what’s in it, here’s the report. Go for it. I strongly urge that you don’t try to eat lunch while reading it.

No, I expect someone to back up his specific claim. I’m not interested in reading 800 pages of biased allegations. It won’t tell me anything I don’t know already. I already knew the Church, like every institution, shuffled around abusers. I already knew horrific abuse did occur. Reading this isn’t necessary or good for me.

 

[exnihilo]

Of course the facts aren’t. But airing the report is far better than continuing to sweep this vileness under the rug

These aren’t facts. These are grand jury allegations. If all grand juries do is report facts then we can dispense with trials.

 

[angel12]

’m not interested in reading 800 pages of biased allegations.

How do you know they’re biased when you refuse to read the report?
Seems to be your usual process – trashing things you refuse to read.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

With all due respect, from a legal perspective, yes this report shows a definite bias in the first few pages. Which is understandable given that it’s a grand jury report, and also that it’s politically motivated. After spending the taxpayer’s money on this investigation for 2 years, it’s going to be presented in a manner that makes the Church look like a horror show and the grand jury look like crusaders for truth, justice and the American way.

In this case the Church did dig its own grave and then fell in it. They did a bunch of stupid stuff for decades and they hurt people.

On the other hand, no one is surprised by this who has been following the saga of the Church and how it mishandled abuse cases since the first news reports on this issue, which as I have said before had to be back in the late 80s or early 90s because I remember seeing one on “60 Minutes” back then that focused on the New Mexico diocese that was kind of a dumping ground for abusive priests who got shuffled around. I thought at that time, “uh-oh, the Church is going to have a big problem on its hands down the road”. Which it proceeded to have.

 

[exnihilo]

The first page. It starts with, ‘we, the members of the grand jury, need you to hear this’. That isn’t how unbiased reviews work. That is how witch hunts work.

On page two the bias is also clear.

Abuse complaints were kept locked up in a ‘secret archive’. That is not our word, but theirs… Only the bishop can have the key

This is like the SDAs who complain about the Vatican’s secret archives. The term just means private archive. They are trying to make it sound sinister. And guess what, the grand jury is secret too. So they are condemning secrecy while practicing it?

This is a total hatchet job.

 

[ucfengr]

The elephant in the room is the very likely possibility that Pennsylvania dioceses aren’t the only ones with this problem, and probably aren’t any where close to being the worst.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Oh I’m sure many other dioceses are just as bad if not worse, and now there will be calls from citizens all over the nation to launch similar grand jury investigations. Any smart bishop would already be preparing for this if it hasn’t already happened where he is.

 

[ucfengr]

Oh I’m sure many other dioceses are just as bad if not worse,

My greatest fear is that it’s not just “many” but virtually “all”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Why not just accept that it is likely the case and try to make things better going forward?
Neither you nor I can correct the crimes, sins, mistakes and poor judgment of things that happened decades ago that we didn’t know were going on and had no control over.
We can try to do our part to improve it for the next generation, and I think positive steps are already being made.

There have been dirty cops in just about every police department in USA also, but we still manage to have reasonably functional police protection.

There have been dozens of dirty politicians from every state, yet we still manage to keep the government plugging along.

The Church will plug along too. And not all priests, not all cops, and not all politicians are dirty.

 

[anon98328916]

It is hard without a doubt but we must stay focused on Jesus, the evil acts of those who were meant to be representing Christ will be punished. They are not apostles of Christ!

 

[anon98328916]

I agree God has had enough of the evil goings on in His church! As hard as this may be it has to be done, to say God is angry with what went on is an understatement!

 

[ucfengr]

Why not just accept that it is likely the case and try to make things better going forward?

Because if it is the case, I have no idea how to make things better going forward. Where do you start when the corruption runs from top to bottom, root to branch?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You could pray, try to be the best possible Catholic yourself, and support those priests and religious who are truly holy, who are still in the majority. Certainly there were many who were never accused or even suspected of anything untoward.

Many if not most of the Catholic saints lived in very bad times for the Church. Roman persecutions, war with the Muslims, and centuries of all kinds of fighting, schisms, political machinations, and shady dealings across all of Europe. Popes vs. Antipopes. Clergy who not only carried on sexually all over the place (often in the open) but also drank and were greedy for money and the rich life. Monasteries that needed repeated “reform” because the people who entered them weren’t interested in discipline. And then in the last 200 years we have had all the Jansenism and Modernism and Communism and various other -isms trying to bring down the Church.

It’s tough being a Catholic no matter when you lived. You’re always going to see corruption around you. The saints rejected it and lived their lives in a holy way. We are called to do the same.

 

[anon98328916]

Exactly, the Pope should demand all to resign. Christ’s church will not tolerate this evil!

 

[anikins]

Accepting what has happened in the first step to healing and rebuilding.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

No, I expect someone to back up his specific claim. I’m not interested in reading 800 pages of biased allegations. It won’t tell me anything I don’t know already. I already knew the Church, like every institution, shuffled around abusers. I already knew horrific abuse did occur. Reading this isn’t necessary or good for me.

I am not reading it either. I do not believe it is good for anyone to read it. I know that people are sinners. We all sin and I do not care to read about another persons fall from grace. I would rather pray for them.

Plus what concerns me is that most of these priests are deceased and can not defend themselves. I am not saying they were innocent and I am sure a lot of this probably is true, especially if they have reports from particular bishops regarding particular priests, but on the flip side if most of these priests are deceased how can anyone say these allegations are facts without being able to actually talk to the priest accused.

 

[anikins]

The report included reccomendations for the government:

• Eliminating the criminal statute of limitations for sexually abusing children.
• Creating a two-year “civil window” for child sex abuse victims who couldn’t file lawsuits before.
• Clarifying the penalties for a continuing failure to report child abuse.
• Prohibiting “non-disclosure” agreements regarding cooperation with law enforcement.

While the Chruch doesn’t have jurisdiction over 1 and 2, they could certainly help out with 3 and 4.

The Chruch needs to stop destroying records and enforcing secret agreements. Transparency and accountability is the only way forward.

 

[anikins]

Bishops have asked us to read it (and to remain close to God in prayer while we do because it sucks) so I would suggest doing so.

If you’re afraid it will be a near occasion of sin for you (perhaps a serious danger to your faith), then it’s probably best not to.

But I don’t think it’s bad to want to understand what’s going on in your Church, in your diocese, among the people charged with guiding you toward Heaven. They aren’t accountable to us, the laity, and that’s understandable…It’s not a bad thing for us to know what’s the matter so that we can plead with our priests and bishops - the good ones - to help keep us safe. So that we can do our part to keep this from happening again.

 

[anikins]

These are not just allegations. These are substantiated in official diocesan documents which appear in the report, if you would bother to read it. It is well documented that diocesan staff and Church leadership at the level of bishop were aware of child abuse and covered it up.

 

[anikins]

Why is a grand jury investigating and then issuing a report about allegations of crimes that are well past their statute of limitations?

I missed this, sorry. The answer is that so we can learn from the mistakes of the past and make changes to make sure that institutional cover up of abuse never happens again.