Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

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Donald Trump today:
We express our deepest sympathies to the victims, the wounded and their families. We mourn as one people for our nation’s loss, and pledge our support to any and all who need it.
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It’s a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation. It’s an assault on the ability of free people to live their lives, love who they want, and express their identity.
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At least Trump got it right that gay people should be allowed to live their lives, love who they want and express their gay identity.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
That’s the new face of terrorism in this decade. Cellular organizations are still vulnerable to penetration by state security agencies. By making an open appeal to the disaffected individual, as well as to those who are as crazy as a rat in a tin can, a terrorist group can offer doctrinal support, and in some cases training within or outside the host country, with little risk to the organization, and still be able to claim credit for the attack. Today, they can use social media and on-line training - distance learning in a new and deadly form - to provide basic instruction in how to carry out attacks.

The lone-wolf attacks provide further support for the idea of the power of the terrorist organization and act as a recruiting tool. It’s hardly a new idea in terrorist doctrine - Carlo Pisacane and Mikhail Bakunin both argued for its use as the “Propaganda of the Deed” back in the 19th century. It influenced the doctrine of the Muslim Bortherhood and Salafist organizations.
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But that begs the question on how exactly you stop it. Frankly, his security training was probably more than adequate to teach him how to pull this off, so it wasn’t like he needed extra help there. He had legally obtained the weapons. So, what you want to cut off is the Islamic ideology, but that could equally be applied to Christian ideologies if applied to Robert Dear or Eric Rudolph. I don’t see how you do that in a free society.
They can argue whatever they want. The rest of us don’t have to give credence to their claims.
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So, a police officer said he was ‘unhinged and unstable’ and he was allowed to own AR-15 weapons and work as an armed security guard? That makes sense. This is looking more like a Sandy Hook deal where someone should have said this guy is nuts and shouldn’t be around weapons. I’m sorry, the more I learn about this fellow, the more I think he is just plain mentally ill and that religion had little to do with his thinking except giving him an excuse to act out his rage.
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“Terrorists” are usually unhinged, Crossbones. If you take a cross-section of any terrorist group, you will find higher levels of paranoia, of schizophrenia, of borderline personality disorder, of bipolar disorder, of substance abuse, of narcism, of delusional beliefs, and of psychopathy. That’s who they recruit, and that’s who self-recruits. If I lead a terrorist group and want to find someone to kill a bunch of innocents or blow himself up, that’s my recruiting pool.

And the unwillingness of his employer to fire him (because he was a Muslim) and then request that the state pull his security guard card needs to be addressed

It will be interesting how a man who seemed to have many issues (wifebeater, mentally unstable) was able to keep his armed security guard job and his weapon. The government has shown a willingness to keep weapons out of the hands of certain individuals since RFK’s murder. Maybe that needs to be revisited.
 
Crossbones said:
But that begs the question on how exactly you stop it. Frankly, his security training was probably more than adequate to teach him how to pull this off, so it wasn’t like he needed extra help there. He had legally obtained the weapons. So, what you want to cut off is the Islamic ideology, but that could equally be applied to Christian ideologies if applied to Robert Dear or Eric Rudolph. I don’t see how you do that in a free society.
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How do you stop it?

Not all problems are amenable to a solution.

I would suggest:

a) Revisit the AG guidelines on CT investigations.

b) End the flow of refugees from the Islamic Crescent nations until such times as they can be effectively vetted. The means to do that do not exist at this time.

c) Maintain an aggressive CT policy and hope we are lucky.
It will be interesting how a man who seemed to have many issues (wifebeater, mentally unstable) was able to keep his armed security guard job and his weapon. The government has shown a willingness to keep weapons out of the hands of certain individuals since RFK’s murder. Maybe that needs to be revisited.
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Could it be the same reason his boss refused to fire him?
 
Crossbones said:
So, Obama causes mass shootings? How does he do that? Is that the same way that he causes the Republicans to nominate Trump?
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Why yes…uh, bad foreign policy, anyone (or should I say nonexistent) (negligence)? Kind of the way Bush caused a whole bunch of bad stuff too - still does actually.
 
Crossbones said:
So, Obama causes mass shootings? How does he do that? Is that the same way that he causes the Republicans to nominate Trump?
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I am weary of all these mass shootings that have taken place since he took office. Too many. He has been a very weak president.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I am weary of all these mass shootings that have taken place since he took office. Too many. He has been a very weak president.
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And how is he supposed to stop them? Lock up every one who makes a nasty comment, buys a gun, plays video games, wears confederate regalia, likes batman?
 
sallybutler said:
And how is he supposed to stop them? Lock up every one who makes a nasty comment, buys a gun, plays video games, wears confederate regalia, likes batman?
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he should have resigned or been impeached long ago. unfortunately, he was elected a second term.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
How do you stop it?

Not all problems are amenable to a solution.

I would suggest:

a) Revisit the AG guidelines on CT investigations.

b) End the flow of refugees from the Islamic Crescent nations until such times as they can be effectively vetted. The means to do that do not exist at this time.

c) Maintain an aggressive CT policy and hope we are lucky.
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I agree with a) and c) because I think we need to determine what went wrong, but b) wouldn’t have helped at all. He was a US born citizen.
Could it be the same reason his boss refused to fire him?
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This is another interesting point that needs to be hashed out. Someone who is harassing a police officer with 20+ texts a day should be investigated carefully. This whole thing is very weird, as I can’t imagine why this wouldn’t result in a serious look-see (if not removal) no matter what race, creed, religion the person was.
 
sallybutler said:
And how is he supposed to stop them? Lock up every one who makes a nasty comment, buys a gun, plays video games, wears confederate regalia, likes batman?
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The FBI (and CIA) could be allowed to do their job, for starters. Priorities come from the top. So does the focus, the funding, oh and the part where we acknowledge the ever-present threat of radical Islamic terrorism, in and out of the country. And try to stop them before they kill us. I realize it is difficult to track US citizens, but I am not sure the administration’s low key, relaxed, tolerant, nonjudgmental “now now Christians are bad too” approach is working for us all that well - in this context (i.e. free wheeling, home grown RIT).
 
Thorolfr said:
Donald Trump today:

At least Trump got it right that gay people should be allowed to live their lives, love who they want and express their gay identity.
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And (some) conservatives might carefully note what Trump says here about gay people. On occasion, he lets thoughts such as this slip out: perhaps they are the only thoughts he truly believes.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
The FBI (and CIA) could be allowed to do their job, for starters. Priorities come from the top. So does the focus, the funding, oh and the part where we acknowledge the ever-present threat of radical Islamic terrorism, in and out of the country. And try to stop them before they kill us. I realize it is difficult to track US citizens, but I am not sure the administration’s low key, relaxed, tolerant, nonjudgmental “now now Christians are bad too” approach is working for us all that well - in this context (i.e. free wheeling, home grown RIT).
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And if the FBI started creating lists of everyone who made an anti-American statement and prevented them from buying guns, people would be yelling about their 2nd Amendment rights.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I am weary of all these mass shootings that have taken place since he took office. Too many. He has been a very weak president.
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Well, the assault weapons ban expired in 2004 and there have been more mass shootings since then, so maybe that is the cause.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I am weary of all these mass shootings that have taken place since he took office. Too many. He has been a very weak president.
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Really?? Looking at it from the outside, it seems to me Obama has tried harder than all his predecessors but has been stymied at every turn.

The sacred 2nd amendment just looks crazily Wild West to non-Americans.
 
sallybutler said:
And how is he supposed to stop them? Lock up every one who makes a nasty comment, buys a gun, plays video games, wears confederate regalia, likes batman?
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Would have helped a lot of he hadn’t pulled all the troops out of Iraq .
 
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