Poll: U.S. Catholics want a younger, more liberal pope

[ProVobis]

Liberal equals abortion, acceptance of homosexual activity, ABC, ect = so lableling these bad is acurate because the Church has declared them intrinsically evil. So, no to your question.

Not everyone agrees with your labelling though. And where would a libertarian or a totalitarian inter alia fall within your one-dimensional world?

 

[ProVobis]

The product of Vat II was not bad…but the “spirit of Vatt II” has been very destructive to the Church. That spirit has caused our liturgies in many ways to fail to appear different, fail to appear reverent and holy, and fail to appear special and distinct from protestant services. People don’t see anything worth dying for in the typical Catholic parish.

I attend the EF mostly so you’re preaching to the choir here. But I wouldn’t call those who want the Mass simplified and wanting it only in vernacular, liberals, though in the 60’s they were in fact labelled as such.

 

[Evania]

[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

I should read that too.

that is WHY YOU SHOULD BE OPEN TO CHILDREN when getting married. This is what happens when sex gets recreational. If you think children tear a marriage apart…ay ay ay. Its not the childs fault.

Amen.

 

[october_baby]

I’m getting more and more interested in hearing from this person. He seems to talk my language. Is that on the internet?

Sure at churchmilitanttv.com enjoy! :dancing:

 

[CMatt25]

Which suggests your premise is entirely wrong. It has nothing to do with the teachings of the Church and much to do with people simple becoming secularized. If it was the teachings of the Church that was the problem, they would just find another Church which would confirm them in their heresy.

The title of this thread should read: “People want to be lied to and told sin is OK”.

No the thread is titled as the linked story was which is per forum rules. I do know of some Catholics who have found another. I know for example a couple of Episcopal priests and a UCC pastor in my area each from Catholic backgrounds. One of the Episcopal priests was actually a Roman priest. I know of Catholics who are active in and attend a UMC church and others. But I think you underestimate the control the Catholic Church still has over some dissenters. And they don’t “just find another”. They may dissent their entire lives. But in the end they may even receive Anointing of the Sick. Or they still might desire Catholic prayers at their funeral if even in a funeral parlor without a Mass. Why? Because while they may dissent, they never completely break all ties. Perhaps it’s what is called “Catholic guilt”. Perhaps because they are not sure the Catholic Church is right. But neither are they sure She is wrong. And they struggle deeply their entire lives. If they did seek to “find another” though, perhaps those churches you speak of being in decline, would be growing.

 

[Lapey]

Not everyone agrees with your labelling though. And where would a libertarian or a totalitarian inter alia fall within your one-dimensional world?

My world is not one dimentional, it is one Church. I do not see liberal and conservative, I see truth as Mother Church proclaims. Not if you or Matt want to paint this as conservative or liberal, go right ahead.

 

[Lapey]

I attend the EF mostly so you’re preaching to the choir here. But I wouldn’t call those who want the Mass simplified and wanting it only in vernacular, liberals, though in the 60’s they were in fact labelled as such.

Not at all what I wrote, do not add to my words.

 

[CMatt25]

Well, I think that the pews are not filled for some of these reasons. Certainly you know about all the Catholics who left in the 70’s and 80’s, (including me) because our faith was watered down with happy clappy, peace and love type catechesis. Some other Catholics left due to the free culture that started in the 60’s. Others stayed because they liked the changes happening in the Church, standing for communion, women being able to participate at the pulpit and so on.

We actually read the entire bible in 3 years if you attend mass. The gospels teach about the Beatitudes (Blessed are the peacemakers) giving to the poor, visiting the sick, and loving your neighbor. BTW the Catholic Charities give the most to the poor of all the world!

Now, I have noticed that the young people are excited about the traditions and teachings of the Church. Like someone already mentioned they want the real deal not watered down Catholicism. It is timeless and the very Truth of God so I believe what Jesus said, “The powers of death will not prevail against it.”

Maybe I’m the only person here who knows many Baptized Catholics, including many young ones, who are not as excited as the ones you cite.

 

[edwest2]

The product of Vat II was not bad…but the “spirit of Vatt II” has been very destructive to the Church. That spirit has caused our liturgies in many ways to fail to appear different, fail to appear reverent and holy, and fail to appear special and distinct from protestant services. People don’t see anything worth dying for in the typical Catholic parish.

If I had to ask you if a gun man would storm in during Mass this Sunday, would you throw your body in the line of fire to protect the priest or the Eucharist?

The “spirit of Vatican II” is a fiction. It was created to draw attention away from dissidents.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

This Catholic does not want a more liberal Pope and I do want a Pope that follows in the footsteps of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CMatt25]

I do not see liberal and conservative

Except when you said, “Liberal equals…”

 

[DlandFan06]

Don’t you wonder how many people in the liberal world who claim to be catholic’s really are. It would seem that to get ahead in politics, show business, or television you have to be a catholic who is against every teaching of the church, but say you go to church weekly. I never see them in my church.

It’s the “go along, to get along” thing.

 

[CMatt25]

This Catholic does not want a more liberal Pope and I do want a Pope that follows in the footsteps of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict.

Peace,
Ed

Yes from what I have gathered over the course of time, some Catholics I think consider John XXIII the most recent Pope who was more liberal. Not JP2 or Benedict.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Morality is NOT based on a poll…or what “most” people want…And therefore the Church does not base her teachings on the current thinking of the time…thank God! It’s one of the things that drew me to her…or back to her…after spending time in a happy/do most anything type of non-denominational church.

 

[DlandFan06]

Look, to address all this conversation above, there is a lot a fault to go around. You can blame the Catechism teachers, you can blame the priests, the individual parishes, the parents, their kids themselves, their friends, etc. People have dropped the ball to some degree and that’s why there’s disagreement and poorly formed Catholics out there like in this poll.

 

[Strevel]

I, too, would like a younger Pope as well. However, it is due to having fewer Holy Fathers (HF) and fewer of them passing, …a greater contentiousness. Each HF, being Human, will have their own style of management and ways of accomplishing things. Newer ideas is a good thing as well. However, we are a theocracy and we are not, not a democracy as a Church. One of the problems we have, and I can see it from both sides, is to much liberalization. Sometimes you can be so open minded that your brains roll out of the opening.
We have problems because of less than clearly defined lines of demarcation…of right and wrong, sin, and just a buncha lackadaisical excuse makers. We must focus, understand why we do things, that we really should not (IMHO) toufh the Eucharist. WE should know why we kneel on one knee before we enter the pew, and why we do it and when we do not. When we give up what defines us to be approved by groups of ourselves or others …that is not good. As a convert I can tell you frankly that when you give up pieces of who you are other cultures and faiths view you that much less. Soon they have no respect for you at all. There is also going to far in the conservative side as well. Tere is a happy medium.
I love being catholic and just do not understand why some that were born and raised in the Church do not fast before Mass, why they do not go to confession. Confession is the original psychotherapy, the original TonyRobbins. Get it outta your system, take corrective action and move on.

OK, that’s my view,

Don:thumbsup:

While I know many here dispute such polls because they don’t distinguish between levels of practice among Catholics. And I personally believe there’s no chance of a liberal pope considering the current make up of the College of Cardinals. As many of the conservatives were elevated to the College during JP2 and Benedict’s papacies.

But according to this CBS News/NY Times poll, “As the College of Cardinals descends on Rome this week to select the world’s next pope, most U.S. Catholics want the new pope to be younger, to have new ideas, and to liberalize the church’s teachings on issues like birth control, ordaining women, and permitting priests to marry”

cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57572665/u.s-catholics-want-a-younger-more-liberal-pope/

 

[Elizabeth502]

That’s very interesting. Since the majority polled attend Mass weekly, that alone puts them in a relatively small percentage of Catholics who do so according to polls I’ve seen. What is it? Less than 30% or so of Baptized Catholics who practice enough to attend weekly?

Today I heard, I think from Jansing, that it’s 40%. That was from a poll, she said. That’s actually better than what I thought.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Today I heard, I think from Jansing, that it’s 40%. That was from a poll, she said. That’s actually better than what I thought.

That’s good news. Maybe things are looking up. I know I am surprised that we have so many attending daily Mass at our church. In the old days, Latin Mass, I don’t remember daily Mass being so well attended.

 

[JamesCaruso]

I think it would be great to have a young, traditional priest. Someone young and strong enough to deal with the immense problems both inside and outside the Church today,yet someone well grounded in the traditional church, and well versed in Doctors of the Church.

OTOH, I have no doubt that God can take an old man and make him just as young, strong and vibrant in his service to the Church. John Paul II struck me that way.

 

[Elizabeth502]

No the thread is titled as the linked story was which is per forum rules. I do know of some Catholics who have found another. I know for example a couple of Episcopal priests and a UCC pastor in my area each from Catholic backgrounds. One of the Episcopal priests was actually a Roman priest. I know of Catholics who are active in and attend a UMC church and others. But I think you underestimate the control the Catholic Church still has over some dissenters. And they don’t “just find another”. They may dissent their entire lives. But in the end they may even receive Anointing of the Sick. Or they still might desire Catholic prayers at their funeral if even in a funeral parlor without a Mass. Why? Because while they may dissent, they never completely break all ties. Perhaps it’s what is called “Catholic guilt”. Perhaps because they are not sure the Catholic Church is right. But neither are they sure She is wrong. And they struggle deeply their entire lives. If they did seek to “find another” though, perhaps those churches you speak of being in decline, would be growing.

I appreciate that it is your position, stated here and also on many other previous threads, that church (small “c”) affiliation is simply a matter of groping in the dark, overwhelmed by the supposed inability to “know” the Truth, and that such perpetual seeking, questioning, and being unsure is somehow an inevitable fact of human existence, which — if we are supposedly unlucky enough to be afflicted with it – may follow us virtually to our graves.

This is not the position of the Roman Catholic Church, not a perspective that should have been taught in a single Catholic catechetical lesson. Nor does it hail from any Church document. It merely reflects personal doubt.

There’s a cure for that doubt, and he’s called Jesus Christ in the context of the fullness of the Church He founded. A baptized Catholic, assuming that the baptism was valid, has resources unlike those of other faith traditions. A bapitzed, confirmed Catholic has been told where to go for resources when faith is so lacking that religious affiliation appears to be some random event, or the result of luck, or some distribution of genes.

While it’s true that some Catholics have “naturally” more faith than others, the degree of faith of any individual is not restricted by human weakness. We are each capable of reaching high levels of faith. Faith is a theological virtue that must be cultivated, actively and deliberately. Our doubts are the very oppotunities to enlarge that faith. I actually recently heard something about this, possibly on EWTN radio, possibly by Fr. Groeschel (or it might have been on another EWTN program with a different guest or host.) In the recent era (the person said), scant attention has been paid by the Church (formally, in preparation programs) to the cultivation of this important theological virtue. Prior to Vatican 2, the three theological virtues were separately and specifically taught to the faithful, and assists suggested to enlarge each.

Religious faith in the context of Catholicism cannot rely on secular means to get there, or on the rituals and traditions of different religions . (Just “figuring something out” rationally, or just “waiting until X makes sense,” and until then, declaring “I can’t have faith.”) Faith is a journey and a process, and does not benefit, directly anyway, by a person experimenting with other religious traditions in the hopes that those, instead, will “make sense.” The likely scenario there is that neither Catholicism nor UMC nor UCC nor Lutheranism nor Episcopalianism will have be any more of a permanent alternative home for the baptized Catholic than the Catholic Church was. The wrong tools are being used. Human investigation is being sought as a solution to a deficiency in a theological virtue, for which only grace is the cure.