Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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AdvanceAlways said:
And again folks, this here is an example of the types who will be empowered by Francis’ words. The types who will say “so what about abortion, so what about marriage.”

Country Gal, Jesus also said the poor will always be with us.
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No one that is empowered by Francis’ words could think that way because they would not be focusing on God’s love for us. Really I don’t see why people get so extreme when they don’t get what they want. Just because this Pope doesn’t focus on what you want him to doesn’t mean he is not following Church teaching. Again I have had to deal with Popes that didn’t focus on what I was used to be I never, ever, got online a promote a negative view of them.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
Gracepoole, none of it can be justified, none of it. Moral evils are moral evils, be it abortion, human trafficking, exploitation of the poor, all must be a priority of the Church. Which is why I don’t understand why our Holy Father is knocking one for the other. No one has been able to say how this will not give credence to every pro-choice “Catholic” politician out there, all they have to say now is" “the Pope says abortion is no biggie! We have other problems!”
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But he’s not said that it’s “no biggie.” Just that it needs to be placed alongside the myriad of other significant sins that must be addressed by Christians. I think the Church has done a good job of rallying around the issue of abortion in recent years – my non-Catholic friends think it’s the most central issue for the Church because that’s what they hear most about in connection *with *the Church. It’s strange that they don’t associate the Church with its humanitarian efforts on behalf of the poor, for instance – but they don’t because they hear and read more about abortion than any other topic.
 
This whole interview will be taken by the majority of readers as, “Yeehaw, let’s have an abortofest!”
 
I think many pro-choicers actually dislike the idea of abortion, but feel sorry for young women in predicaments . A vehement sector are maybe repressing their own guilty feelings over their own involvement with abortion, so go overboard in justifying and promoting abortion.

But, most people are rather moderate, I suspect, and do find abortion distasteful.
 
gracepoole said:
But he’s not said that it’s “no biggie.” Just that it needs to be placed alongside the myriad of other significant sins that must be addressed by Christians. I think the Church has done a good job of rallying around the issue of abortion in recent years – my non-Catholic friends think it’s the most central issue for the Church because that’s what they hear most about in connection *with *the Church. It’s strange that they don’t associate the Church with its humanitarian efforts on behalf of the poor, for instance – but they don’t because they hear and read more about abortion than any other topic.
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I think one problem there though is that there are problems which outweigh others. I still feel as if Francis has trivialized abortion with his interview.
 
Country_Gal said:
Let’s face it, Jesus uttered ZERO recorded words about homosexuality, birth control, or abortion.
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I’m sure the child molester Judas priests will ALSO take great comfort in the fact that Jesus never said anything about their favorite sin either. Nor the crack dealers, gun runners, loan sharks…

You just rationalized a WHOLE lotta sins! :eek:

Let’s face it, Jesus didn’t need to confront sins that everybody knew were sins. He confronted sins that people pretended not to KNOW were sins, like selfishness, lust in the heart, divorce, self-righteousness/pride… If anything, the example of Jesus was to publicly rebuke people who publicly paraded their sins packaged to appear as virtues. Isn’t that PRECISELY what the Pharisees often were?

I’m not criticizing what the pope said, but I’m morally certain a whole lotta people are going to misinterpret it in a self-deceiving manner.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
I think one problem there though is that there are problems which outweigh others. I still feel as if Francis has trivialized abortion with his interview.
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That is your view of it. I seriously doubt Pope Francis is not heart broken with every aborted baby.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
I think one problem there though is that there are problems which outweigh others. I still feel as if Francis has trivialized abortion with his interview.
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When all is said and done, we’re asked to trust that the Holy Spirit is working in and through Francis. That’s tricky at times but I do believe it to be true (and just for the record, I’m horrified by some of the comments here disparaging the pope, not just his comments – that is frightening stuff).
 
Country_Gal said:
And. yes, women always had means of avoiding or ridding themselves of unwanted pregnancies, even before modern techniques.
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In ancient times, even. Writers like Cicero et al condemned the act in their writings. It’s no wonder that the early fathers of the Church praised and adopted the moral code of Cicero, as did JPII.

That said, we need to be careful with all these translations and interpretations. I still remember how great people thought Paul VI was when he allowed “conscience” to be the determining factor in family planning, only to counter later with the Humanae Vitae.
 
stewstew03 said:
Notice he does NOT condone abortion, LGBT marriage, etc. Rather, he is trying to strike a balance, and I welcome his approach. The world knows where the Church stands on those hot-button issues, but the world also needs to hear the Gospel…

We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Exactly. If you look at what he said preceding the quoted portion, it’s plain that he was not condoning abortion. He was condoning forgiveness.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
Gracepoole, none of it can be justified, none of it. Moral evils are moral evils, be it abortion, human trafficking, exploitation of the poor, all must be a priority of the Church. Which is why I don’t understand why our Holy Father is knocking one for the other. No one has been able to say how this will not give credence to every pro-choice “Catholic” politician out there, all they have to say now is" “the Pope says abortion is no biggie! We have other problems!”
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It is so completely wrong to put those word and your interpretation out there. You have the right to be up set, but no right to imply those were his words or his attitude. You are an extremist trying to cause trouble and outrage people, which is not what our faith is about.
 
gracepoole said:
When all is said and done, we’re asked to trust that the Holy Spirit is working in and through Francis. That’s tricky at times but I do believe it to be true (and just for the record, I’m horrified by some of the comments here disparaging the pope, not just his comments – that is frightening stuff).
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Call for charity in posting seconded.

As a sidenote, I pray you never have the misfortune of reading the MSM comboxes for articles about the Holy Father. Ughhh.
 
manualman said:
I’m sure the child molester Judas priests will ALSO take great comfort in the fact that Jesus never said anything about their favorite sin either. Nor the crack dealers, gun runners, loan sharks…

You just rationalized a WHOLE lotta sins! :eek:

Let’s face it, Jesus didn’t need to confront sins that everybody knew were sins. He confronted sins that people pretended not to KNOW were sins, like selfishness, lust in the heart, divorce, self-righteousness/pride… If anything, the example of Jesus was to publicly rebuke people who publicly paraded their sins packaged to appear as virtues. Isn’t that PRECISELY what the Pharisees often were?

I’m not criticizing what the pope said, but I’m morally certain a whole lotta people are going to misinterpret it in a self-deceiving manner.
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Actually Jesus chided only those Pharisees who did not practice the Pharisaic moral code of the Torah correctly. He wanted to reinstate a legitimate understanding and following of the Torah in the Pharisaic tradition, which believed, for example, that working on the Sabbath was permitted for the purpose of preserving one’s own or another’s health and life. BTW, the Law hardly spoke of abortion at all and so Jesus followed suit.
 
einna said:
It is so completely wrong to put those word and your interpretation out there. You have the right to be up set, but no right to imply those were his words or his attitude. You are an extremist trying to cause trouble and outrage people, which is not what our faith is about.
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That is very unfair of you to accuse her of that. That is a personal attack on her good name and character.
 
manualman said:
I’m sure the child molester Judas priests will ALSO take great comfort in the fact that Jesus never said anything about their favorite sin either.
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Wrong. Matthew 18:6 is pretty explicit on that. I’m still waiting for the Church to turn Jesus’ recommendation into actual policy…
manualman said:
If anything, the example of Jesus was to publicly rebuke people who publicly paraded their sins packaged to appear as virtues. Isn’t that PRECISELY what the Pharisees often were?
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Um… no. Where did you get the idea that Pharisees were sinful? They lived their lives by Mosaic Law.

The problem was with their hearts, not with their laws.
 
einna said:
It is so completely wrong to put those word and your interpretation out there. You have the right to be up set, but no right to imply those were his words or his attitude. You are an extremist trying to cause trouble and outrage people, which is not what our faith is about.
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Shouldn’t you be leading by charity and not condemning me?
 
einna said:
It is so completely wrong to put those word and your interpretation out there. You have the right to be up set, but no right to imply those were his words or his attitude. You are an extremist trying to cause trouble and outrage people, which is not what our faith is about.
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Come now. You really think people like Pelosi and Biden WON’T (unfairly) use the pope’s words in a manner like this:

“While I would never personally condone or suggest abortion, I feel that focus on such a divisive issue is not productive in our society today and like Pope Francis, I believe that my duty as a faithful catholic is to focus my energies what can actually achieve the most good.”

Never underestimate the power of political sophistry. They’ll say things like the above while actually voting to fund Planned Parenthood, force taxpayers to pay for Plan B, and plenty of worse things to come.
 
Havard said:
As a sidenote, I pray you never have the misfortune of reading the MSM comboxes for articles about the Holy Father. Ughhh.
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Those should be avoided in most cases, not just for articles about the Holy Father. 😦
 
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