Pope congratulates Biden

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He’s a politician — I don’t feel scandalized. If he was a priest or a Catholic teacher, I’d feel differently. But he’s a politician and therefore is mired in scandal from the word go.
 
TMC said:
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MNathaniel:
Have you ever heard of the word “scandal” and have you ever read Matthew 18:5-17
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You think the Pope is giving scandal by talking to President-elect Biden?
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No?

I think the things I’ve said in this thread. Not a made-up thing you’re putting in my mouth.

I think it’s reasonable that a phone call took place. Where have I said otherwise? (Hint: I haven’t)
 
MNathaniel said:
No?

I think the things I’ve said in this thread. Not a made-up thing you’re putting in my mouth.

I think it’s reasonable that a phone call took place. Where have I said otherwise? (Hint: I haven’t)
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So where is the scandal?
 
FrankFletcher said:
He’s a politician — I don’t feel scandalized. If he was a priest or a Catholic teacher, I’d feel differently. But he’s a politician and therefore is mired in scandal from the word go.
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He’s about to be president of the united states of america. The most politically powerful man in the world. He publicly campaigned on being a “Catholic”. He publicly promotes the expansion of abortion not just in your country but internationally.

How happy for you that you (apparently) have no difficulty with the spectre of this man receiving communion at Catholic mass. How happy for you that this particular stumbling block apparently has no effect on you. Could you stop adding yourself to the stumbling block for others who are already stumbling over it though?
 
MNathaniel said:
If you’re serious, I can’t fathom it, so you’re going to need to seek your answer from someone with more time and patience today.
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I am serious. Scandal, in the Catholic sense, does not mean merely bad or shocking behavior. Scandal is behavior that leads someone away from the faith. The Pope talking to a politician does not cause scandal. As for Biden, I don’t see him trying to lead anyone away from the faith. So I don’t see any scandal.
 
MNathaniel said:
How happy for you that you (apparently) have no difficulty with the spectre of this man receiving communion at Catholic mass. How happy for you that this particular stumbling block apparently has no effect on you. Could you stop adding yourself to the stumbling block for others who are already stumbling over it though?
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I am unaware of a single American politician whose public policy positions agree with all of the Church’s teachings. In fact, I am unaware of any major political candidate whose public policy positions agree with the Church’s teachings on abortion. As to whether he should receive communion, that is up to his pastor and his bishop.
 
TMC said:
As to whether he should receive communion, that is up to his pastor and his bishop.
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Yep. And any thinking person is free to speculate on why 2 + 2 = 5 when it comes to the Church.
 
TMC said:
I am serious. Scandal, in the Catholic sense, does not mean merely bad or shocking behavior. Scandal is behavior that leads someone away from the faith. The Pope talking to a politician does not cause scandal. As for Biden, I don’t see him trying to lead anyone away from the faith. So I don’t see any scandal.
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Okay then.

The scandal (to me) isn’t in Biden’s pro-abortion activism, nor even in him calling himself Catholic while doing it.

The scandal to me is that the bishops do not publicly refuse him communion until he ceases to do so. Because until then they seem as if complicitly rubber-stamping his pro-abortion activism as compatible with faithful catholic practice. And that’s ugly and sin.
TMC said:
I am unaware of a single American politician whose public policy positions agree with all of the Church’s teachings.
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Wow, you’re almost directly quoting McCarrick there! That was part of what he said while trying to muddy the waters about whether to deny communion to pro-abortion politicians. He tried to conflate all social issues as if they were equal, despite the vatican letter clearly distinguishing between issues that would and wouldn’t require denying communion.
 
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Um, maybe take a break here? Your statements sound pretty angry. I’m not your enemy. Neither is the pope.
 
The point that people are getting upset about is the fact that the Pope doesn’t seem to have any public words of admonition for Biden, despite the latter very obviously and publicly endorsing things like abortion, which is gravely against the teachings of the Church.

I’m not a hater of Pope Francis like a number of Catholics seem to be. I do admit to feeling confused and unsure and rather frustrated about the fact Pope Francis (so far) either can’t or won’t just tell Biden that he needs to do better in this regard.
TMC said:
As for Biden, I don’t see him trying to lead anyone away from the faith. So I don’t see any scandal.
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Publicly bucking the Church on important issues like abortion without comment from the highest levels of Catholic authority could fulfill your definition of scandal for some.
 
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Would a statement from Pope Francis to the effect of “I congratulate Mr. Biden on his Presidency and hope that he holds fast to the Catholic faith that he talks about so often, fighting the fight for the destitute, the lonely, and the unborn” really be too much to hope for, if not to ask?
 
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Raxus said:
I’m not a hater of Pope Francis like a number of Catholics seem to be. I do admit to feeling confused and unsure and rather frustrated about the fact Pope Francis (so far) either can’t or won’t just tell Biden that he needs to do better in this regard.
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I’d bet money on Pope Francis bringing up the subject in his telephone call. Popes don’t choose specific people to condemn publicly. The only people that Jesus strongly condemned publicly were the Pharisees and the temple traders using the Church to make big bucks. That means something to Scripture devotees. They are the scandalous ones.
 
TMC said:
In Trump they had a President who opposed the Church’s position in virtually every area, including abortion and gay rights.
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Edited response to be more fair and thoughtful: I don’t think this is true, though I can see from a narrow perspective what you’re getting at.
 
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Raxus said:
Pretty sure this is a flat-out lie, whether you’re saying so yourself or just repeating it from someone else without knowing.
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Name calling may be satisfying, but it is rarely a convincing argument. Let’s see how the US- Vatican relationship works out over the next few years. It has been decidedly chilly the last few years.
 
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