M
meltzerboy2
Guest
Surely Pope Francis is NOT one of the worst popes in history. Indeed he is perhaps one of the best. He certainly puts love first among all else, just as Jesus did.
Last edited:
- Status
S
SantaFe
Guest
Because we ALL share the same tiny blue dot in this infinite universe, we’re all human and we all have different beliefs that need to be respected and heard.
B
Babaganoush
Guest
The pope doesn’t represent the world, he represents the church.
S
SantaFe
Guest
the pope in his wisdom realizes the church is part of the world, not vice versa.
S
SantaFe
Guest
I think he and JPII are the two best Popes ever!
S
SantaFe
Guest
As are you my incorrect friend.
T
Toledo
Guest
What makes a good Pope? Leading souls closer to God and Heaven through the Catholic Church. Giving confusing, misleading, erroneous, scandalous, or other statements or actions which push people away from Christ and His Bride via false information is a mark of a bad Pope.
I submit that Pope Francis has done . . . s things to push people away from God, His Church and His desires for us, which makes him a bad Pope.
Remember a bad Pope can take many forms (digging up and prosecuting a dead Pope, having mistresses, attachment to power and other sin, or Francis’ case, poorly thought out words and actions which lead people away from Christ).
I think he is in the top 266 Popes ever!
Last edited:
My sense of Pope Francis is that he is closer to Jesus and the Apostles than the Church of the second millennium which I find very familiar being thoroughly raised by the Gospels.
M
meltzerboy2
Guest
Why do you believe Pope Francis is leading people away from Christ? It seems to me he is doing just the opposite by showing that the Church cares for and loves all, because all people are children of G-d, as the Pope said. Wouldn’t more people be attracted to the Church because of such beliefs?
G
Genesis315
Guest
The new movie juxtaposes his words from an older interview (the voiceover) with the civil union comments. The stuff about everyone having a right to a family was in the context of parents not disowning their kids. He addressed the “right to a family” comments a year ago.
Cleary he sees approving certain legal protections of a civil union as compatible with not approving same sex acts. In theory I agree with him, but in practice “civil unions” tend to just be euphemisms for sexually active same-sex “marriages,” which is why the Church has opposed them.
Cleary he sees approving certain legal protections of a civil union as compatible with not approving same sex acts. In theory I agree with him, but in practice “civil unions” tend to just be euphemisms for sexually active same-sex “marriages,” which is why the Church has opposed them.
Last edited:
B
Babaganoush
Guest
Secular politics is irrelevant to the church except in as much as it clashes with the doctrine of the church. Each country will make its own laws, and it isn’t the popes job to criticize or support those laws unless they come in conflict with the church’s doctrine. When he makes a statement about secular politics he is implying that it is a doctrinal issue.
G
Genesis315
Guest
Certainly–I think it’s really the same reason: civil unions are just treated as another word for marriage without any clear, morally reasoned distinction, which waters down marriage while normalizing immoral relationships. Theoretically they don’t have to, but common experience as well as the origin of these unions show otherwise in concrete reality. In this case, IMO the Pope is erring in his judgment of fact that such unions can in practice be morally neutral or at least not scandalous, but he is clear that same-sex acts are unacceptable and he hasn’t equated civil unions to a right to a family.
Last edited:
Pope Francis focus was on the human rights aspect. Homosexual people have been the subject of discrimination and injustice within the community.
From the Compendium of Social Doctrine.
Filling in the gap between the letter and the spirit
158. The solemn proclamation of human rights is contradicted by a painful reality of violations, wars and violence of every kind, in the first place, genocides and mass deportations, the spreading on a virtual worldwide dimension of ever new forms of slavery such as trafficking in human beings, child soldiers, the exploitation of workers, illegal drug trafficking, prostitution. “Even in countries with democratic forms of government, these rights are not always fully respected”.[331]
Unfortunately, there is a gap between the “letter” and the “spirit” of human rights,[332] which can often be attributed to a merely formal recognition of these rights. The Church’s social doctrine, in consideration of the privilege accorded by the Gospel to the poor, repeats over and over that “the more fortunate should renounce some of their rights so as to place their goods more generously at the service of others” and that an excessive affirmation of equality “can give rise to an individualism in which each one claims his own rights without wishing to be answerable for the common good”.[333]
159. The Church, aware that her essentially religious mission includes the defence and promotion of human rights,[334] “holds in high esteem the dynamic approach of today which is everywhere fostering these rights”.[335] The Church profoundly experiences the need to respect justice [336] and human rights [337] within her own ranks.
This pastoral commitment develops in a twofold direction: in the proclamation of the Christian foundations of human rights and in the denunciation of the violations of these rights.[338] In any event, “proclamation is always more important than denunciation, and the latter cannot ignore the former, which gives it true solidity and the force of higher motivation”.[339] For greater effectiveness, this commitment is open to ecumenical cooperation, to dialogue with other religions, to all appropriate contacts with other organizations, governmental and non-governmental, at the national and international levels. The Church trusts above all in the help of the Lord and his Spirit who, poured forth into human hearts, is the surest guarantee for respecting justice and human rights, and for contributing to peace. “The promotion of justice and peace and the penetration of all spheres of human society with the light and the leaven of the Gospel have always been the object of the Church’s efforts in fulfilment of the Lord’s command”.[340]
Last edited:
B
BigBoom
Guest
Because he’s justifying people in their sin, not leading them away from it.
The Mexican standoff approach is futile. The Church adopted the title of Pontiff meaning “bridge builder” from the Roman Pagans, who had a ‘college of pontiffs’ to build a bridge between their deities and the people. The idea of meeting people where they are at isn’t justifying them in their sin. It’s bringing God right into their world. For many years the Church struggled with how to serve Christians in China by the Mexican standoff but its become prudent to build a bridge and meet them where they are at.meltzerboy2:
Because he’s justifying people in their sin, not leading them away from it.
V
VanitasVanitatum
Guest
The liberal churches are falling apart so no. Besides this is already a widely held Catholic belief, but honestly there are better ways to go about it.
Last edited:
V
VanitasVanitatum
Guest
I stress not trusting what the media wants to construe the Pope as saying.
M
meltzerboy2
Guest
Good point. And note that “Pontiff” means bridge builder, NOT wall builder.
I
Irishmom2
Guest
Hey! Was just thinking about you today @StudentMI, and here you are!
Last edited:
S
StudentMI
Guest
It was a polite way of saying you’re naive about human nature.
- Status