Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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Duplicate of a duplicate of a duplicate thread.
 
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The time line was not forgotten. From the Testimony: “Pope Benedict had imposed on Cardinal McCarrick sanctions similar to those now imposed on him by Pope Francis:…” (bolded, as it was also bold in the Testimony)
 
I can definitely respect that kind of reply. But it’s not really what he said. He said:

“I read the statement this morning, and I must tell you sincerely that, I must say this, to you and all those who are interested: Read the statement carefully and make your own judgment,” he answered. “I will not say a single word on this.”

But oh well, we’ve said more than enough at this time. And I’m not going to assume he is guilty.
 
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Hope1960 said:
Thoughts? Should Pope Francis resign?
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Why? The accuser is a disgruntled critic of the Pope who was removed from his position.
This is sour grapes and an act of vengeance.
 
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leroy.garrett said:
The time line was not forgotten. From the Testimony: “ Pope Benedict had imposed on Cardinal McCarrick sanctions similar to those now imposed on him by Pope Francis: …” (bolded, as it was also bold in the Testimony)
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How similar was it and for how long? I have not been able to find it yet. The reports say this happened in “the late 2000’s.” Odd there isn’t a date.
 
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I know people criticize that, but really, if you hear of allegations against someone, you don’t just consider them guilty right off the bat. it’s a very difficult determination to make

this is not something anyone wants to rush in to, especially if they end up being wrong. and on the flip side, people can and do lie and make false accusations.

obviously, there are priess who have committed horrible atrocities, because there were abusers and saught out the opportunities. when I was studying to be a teacher at my secular university, they told us that abusers and pedophiles target professions like teacher, coach and clergy, specifically because they can have easy access to minors.

it was intentional. it’s not because of priests are celibate, it’s not because of same sex attraction, it’s because these emn chose to do those things of their own free will. you don’t just wake up one day and decide to start abusing children, typically it’s a long ongoing thing.

and they don’t go around with a sign on their forehead either. usually they will appear as good, holy, intelligent people and people really have to question if they are really capable of such things.

I think that is at least, in part, the problem of the cover-up. perhaps some bishops did have full knowledge and did cover up to save face, or whatever excuse they come up with, but I also think a good proportion is just having doubts about the accusations. if two people tell me completely different stories and I end up believing one of them and it turns out the person lied, I don’t end up being culpable for being lied to

also my dad, who grew up in the 60s and 70s mentioned to me that when families suspected that their sons had same sex attraction, they would be sent off to the seminary in hopes that the gift of celibacy would help them overcome their disorders. I’m not saying that those are the ones who became child abusers, but I think this could offer an explanation of “gay sub0culture in seminaries”, I don’t think people realized the consequences of putting a bunch of probably very confused young men in regards to their sexuality all in one place, it’s an environment of serious near occasion of sin and temptation. and then add in the emerging societal shift of gay lifestyle that was happening at the time, and the general sexual revolution where chastity was suddenly just some crazy notion and humans were just supposed to follow all their urges and desires. now add in all the perverted people who were seeking out the priesthood for the wrong reasons and there you have it

I’m not very surprised that we now have this problem on our hands
 
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I would like to see if the ex-Vatican Diplomat is telling truth or not
 
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I’m not sure resignation would be necessary. If the Pope were to lay out everything he knows and then actually clean up the hierarchy by taking action against those guilty of serious offenses, that may be sufficient. It depends on the level, if any, of his actual offenses.
 
Irishmom2 said:
There is already a thread about this and the mods have asked for no more new threads. They combined 2 others into the first one.
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I didn’t know that. Can you please link me?
 
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Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano Catholic News
The time line was not forgotten. From the Testimony: “Pope Benedict had imposed on Cardinal McCarrick sanctions similar to those now imposed on him by Pope Francis:…” (bolded, as it was also bold in the Testimony)
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on_the_hill said:
I cheered when he quipped that the Soviet Union had been outlawed. I cheered when Lech Walesa, St. Pope JPII, and Reagan brought down the Iron Curtain.

The conniving Kremlinists are probing all facets of American life like viruses.
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News flash: the Cold War is over. Russia isn’t even in the top 10 countries dangerous to US interests. In fact, they should be our allies. We have no business in Ukraine, Georgia, or Syria.
 
I’m kind of shocked that Voris is coming out swinging at Pope Francis. Thus far, he’s been wholly anti-bishops but wouldn’t cross the line by criticizing the Holy Father.
 
Because there’s a whole wide world of space between being politically Liberal and wanting the Church to fulfill its obligations here on Earth.
 
It is a type of Rubicon that has been crossed, but going the other way.
 
I’m inclined to agree. It rather reminds me of how Jesus would respond to those in the Gospel who were trying to trap him with their questions. He wouldn’t answer them directly either.

I do understand why some think it is an unsatisfactory answer. But, honestly, would Pope Francis saying, “Those claims are outrageous” have changed anyone’s opinions? Probably not. The only answer that is going to satisfy people is that which comes from digging into it, which is what the Holy Father is asking the reporters to do.

It’s really a pretty brilliant way to respond.
 
Hope1960 said:
I used to love Pope Francis but the more I learn about these scandals the more I’m losing faith in my Church and my Church leaders.
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The later I understand, but not the former. The Church has always had bad leaders. With this issue either the Holy Father (and others) or the accusing bishop (and others) are bad leaders. But if your faith was that Catholic Bishops always act rightly then your faith was in error. They should act rightly of course, but the don’t always.
 
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Just a point of clarification, Vigano is not a cardinal. He’s an archbishop.
 
twf said:
If these allegations are true, that not only did the Holy Father relax the sanctions against McCarrick but also sought his advice on the appointments of +Cupich and +Tobin, it is truly damning. If this article is credible, the Holy Father has a PR disaster on his hands that makes me want to vomit. I pray and hope this is not credible.
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I didn’t know about this existing thread and started one, myself. I’ve always loved Pope Francis but the more and more I’m reading, the more it’s negatively affecting my faith and trust in our Catholic leaders.

Anyone else feel this way?

Also, I have a former Baptist husband who identifies Christian but is non-practicing. I’ve always been so proud of my Catholic faith since I returned after a long absence and hoped that one day he’d become Catholic, too, like our daughter did. Now I must admit that I’m embarrassed by all I’ve been reading and know with no doubt in my mind, that DH will never become Catholic.
 
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