Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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While he raises a good point McCarrick (as he has a history of defiance to back this up), I would like to know more about whether Benedict did anything after seeing him in Rome and whether Vigano was involved in disciplinary measures.
 
Souls are on the line. It makes a huge difference. Read your church history and see what happens when there is a corrupt Episcopate. I fail to see how anyone can say this makes no difference. Regardless who is at fault.
 
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Even if all the accusations are true, there’s nothing to be done about it. Things will carry on pretty much the same as they’ve been trending.

I ask myself, why get all worked up about it? It is what it is.
 
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Not saying nobody can share his opinion, but the thought crossed my mind that how can he know which surprises will come from the “God of Surprises”? In that case it wouldn’t be a surprise…🧐
 
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While he raises a good point McCarrick (as he has a history of defiance to back this up), I would like to know more about whether Benedict did anything after seeing him in Rome and whether Vigano was involved in disciplinary measures.
Why would Benedict do something after seeing McCarrick in Rome during an ad limina visit? McCarrick was presumably supposed to be there, after all.
 
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However, I would ask what the conditions are for a time limit? I would think that the nature of the offense would inform that. And I think it would be particularly short sighted to give a time-limited sanction for such a serious, serial behavior. And there is also zero evidence that it would have been a time-sensitive sentence.
Keep in mind that McCarrick was not accused of the crime of sex with someone under-age until 2018. Prior to that it was presumed that the offences occurred after the age of majority. “A file this thick” can mean a lot of things, none of which are crimes. If an employee is simply a poor employee (s)he will get progressive sanctions. However if the employee is found committing a crime such as stealing company property, then (s)he can be sacked immediately.

That does not mean that prior to the alleged crime coming to light it was OK to have sex with seminarians but it can mean that perhaps the first sanctions were limited in time to offer an occasion for repentance. But to be fair to the Holy Father, once McCarrick was accused of a crime he did apply severe sanctions virtually immediately.
 
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If you would look all the way back on my comments, you will see why I wanted the thread shutdown. Please research better in the future.
 
Can I like this 16 times haha! It’s the responsibility of the church leaders to provide clear and concise teachings! No response to Dubia letter… no response to Viganò… not good. Add that to his vague and not so vague comments regarding Protestants, the death penalty and homosexuality…disastrous!
 

I more than half expect a proclamation similar to this will be made soon.

When a crook (crook 1) catches another crook (crook 2) at a misdeed, what does crook 2 do?
Answer: Crook 2 is obligated to share the booty with crook 1

The world catches the hierarchy at homosexuality. The Church hierarchy have a choice.
  1. Make proclamation precise like Bishop Cruz.
  2. Suffer endless persecutions and mistrust.
Given the camp Pope Francis is in, I believe he’ll choose choice number 1.
 
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Wow! I would have got up and walked out. You cannot invite sin into the church and no longer call it sin.
 
Here is another non-American view:

Sandro Magister explains how the media is assisting Pope Francis in the McCarrick case, just as they did in the Ricci case. He asked them, “for their own good”, to come to their own conclusions -like they’d done in the past with Ricci? (He was ONLY guilty of homosexual behavior with those over the age of 18)
Monsignor Battista Ricca was known by a good number of nuncios in Algeria, Columbia, Switzerland, and Uruguay where he had been a diplomatic advisor, to be less than chaste. Between 1999 and 2001, he had cohabitated with his lover, former Swiss army captain, Patrick Haari, who had followed him there from Bern. And he also frequented cruising spots with young men, getting beaten up one time and another getting stuck in an elevator at the nunciature with an eighteen-year-old already known to the Uruguayan police. Ricca ended up being removed from diplomatic service in the field and recalled to Rome, where miraculously his career became a success all over again, turning him into a diplomatic adviser of the first class within the structure of the secretariat of state, and above all director of the three Vatican residences for cardinals and bishops visiting Rome, including that of Santa Marta, with the opportunity to establish excellent relationships, including friendships, with churchmen of half the world, including Bergoglio, who as soon as he was elected pope admitted him into his most intimate circle, where he still remains today.
Read the whole story at: Francis the Backslider. He Didn't Just Cover Up For McCarrick - Settimo Cielo - Blog - L’Espresso

Of interest, is that Pope Francis had promoted Ricci as his contact at IOR, the Vatican bank on June 15, 2013. It was later that same month that Vigano says he told the pope about McCarrick.

Nuncios from various countries, who were also in Rome and had known Ricci as a diplomat, tried to warn the pope of his record. A story was published in L’Esspresso detailing Ricci’s past. An anguished letter, written by an Uruguayan Bishop, begged Ricci to resign “for the love of the pope and of the Church.”

What did Pope Francis do?

A month later, while returning from World Youth Day, a reporter asked about the Ricci case and a “gay lobby”. Pope Francis then responded - he had done an investigation as Canon Law demanded. He judged the allegations to be unfounded. He spoke about “sins of youth”, differentiating it with pedophilia, expounded on the mercy of the Lord. “If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has good will, then who am I to judge him?” was his famous quip.
 
…Bishop Eleganti states, ”James Martin, speaking…
Well, there is no lack of unsupported hearsay in the media, that is for sure. The gossip comes out in full force.

I have heard a lot of slams on Fr. James Martin here. He is definitely on the fringe. However, I have never heard this said by him, nor does this so-called journalist give a reference, odd for a public statement, though it is not so odd for what passes for journalism on the internet.

So, I searched for the speech. Someone is lying, probably several people, and I do not know who. I will link it for the speech to be searched. Fr. Martin did not “call for the Church to equate homosexuality with heterosexuality to the fullest extent,” or “to admit homosexuals to all ecclesiastical ministries and offices without further do.” He spoke only of inviting them into parish ministries:
Like everyone else in your parish who does not live up to the Gospels—which is everyone—L.G.B.T. people should be invited into parish ministries: eucharistic ministers, music ministers, lectors, bereavement ministry and every ministry.
https://www.americamagazine.org/fai...artin-how-parishes-can-welcome-lgbt-catholics

Without getting into whether Fr. Martin is giving good advice for all parishes or not, there is no call to lie about. It is the truth that sets you free, not gossip, and not lies.
 
I think there should also be an investigation into Vigano and on who else was involved in producing this letter. I strongly suspect that there is a lot more to this than just an old Vatican official trying to clear his conscience.
The only thing that matters is this: is ++Vigano’s testimony 100% true, mostly true, partly true, or 100% false? There is NO REASON to investigate ++Vigano until all of his accusations are investigated.

Investating the accuser first does nothing except slow down the process of getting the truth.

Anything ++Vigano did or didn’t do are irrelevant in regards to the accusations he made against the Pope and the select Bishops.

So for all you who want to investigate ++Vigano, fine - he can be investigated. But he should not be investigated until his testimony has been throughly investigated.

God Bless
 
He’s simply stating the logical outcome of “born this way.”

For the sake of argument, if the pope did suddenly declare that homosexuality is a gift from God, what are most people going to do about it? Nothing. He’s already allegedly told one homosexual that God made him that way, right?

Most US and European Catholics probably won’t object much to same sex weddings in the Church, either. Polls show they overwhelmingly support it in society at large. It’s only a small step. Then they’ll go along with actively and openly homosexual clergy.

Time is on the side of the progressives here. They’ll just wait out this current little tempest and keep on keeping on. Why stress about it?
 
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For the sake of argument, if the pope did suddenly declare that homosexuality is a gift from God, what are most people going to do about it? Nothing. He’s already allegedly told one homosexual that God made him that way, right?

Most US and European Catholics probably won’t object much to same sex weddings in the Church, either. Polls show they overwhelmingly support it in society at large. It’s only a small step. Then they’ll go along with actively and openly homosexual clergy.

Time is on the side of the progressives here. They’ll just wait out this current little tempest and keep on keeping on. Why stress about it?
For the sake of argument, what happens when a person lights a mouthful of pyrotechnics? The fuse is already burning.
 
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No, he doesn’t need to resign. He’s said enough on the matter. Glad he’s refusing to say more.
 
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