Pope Francis Outlines 8-Point Plan for ‘All-Out Battle’ Against Sexual Abuse

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As I said, it all sounds good but if it doesn’t lead to any real policies then it means nothing. Pretty words don’t make good policy. We will see whether it leads to any real changes.
 
Babaganoush said:
We will see whether it leads to any real changes.
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If you haven’t seen changes try looking harder because there’ve been plenty of changes.

Your comments are entirely baseless and speculative.
 
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Why guess when anyone can find out:

His Holiness, Pope Francis
Apostolic Palace
00120 Vatican City
 
Yeah I don’t get #4 at all. Is this supposed to be something new? Seems rather fundamental and obvious and should have been done all along.
#8…what has this to do with clergy sex abuse? Who are these sexual tourists?
 
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OraLabora said:
I believe the outwardly homophobic, secretly homosexual Cardinal O’Brien who abused his seminarians, is not alone)
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Well you can add McCarrick to that list (not outwardly homophobic, but secretly a gay predator who abused seminarians)…that’s two cardinals…
 
Doesn’t the pope live in an apartment in the Saint Martha’s House?
 
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O’Brien and McCarrick have both been found guilty by the Church. +Pell maintains his innocence and is appealing the verdict…so I consider his case up in the air at this point.
 
CradleRC58 said:
It’s a problem, period. A sodomite culture is not compatible with an orthodox Catholic culture
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Well, let’s agree that sodomy among clergy is against our moral code. If it is not consensual, it is certainly abuse.

But are you saying that a clergyman being homosexual causes abuse?
 
OraLabora said:
No, but the double-lives and secrecy of some
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Yes, there is nothing to support the notion that homosexuality in itself leads to abuse.

You make a good point about the “culture of secrecy”. It is human to create an ideal, i.e. chastity, but when the ideal is zealously upheld, the shadow is given great strength (the posts in our eyes). It seems to me that the whole of the clergy could use a good dose of shadow work, taking ownership of their posts/planks in their eyes.
 
TMC said:
Subtly blaming outsiders or “society”
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Where do you see that?
TMC said:
real change will never come from inside the Church’s leadership, for lots of reasons. The laity, the Body of Christ, is going to have to step up to fix these problems.
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It’s going to take both! I like your energy!
 
OneSheep said:
Subtly blaming outsiders or “society”
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His last two points - referencing pornography and sexual tourism.

The Church has struggled with sexual crimes, including the abuse of minors, for hundreds of years. Even if you believe (and I don’t) that the sexual abuse crises began in the 50’s or 60’s, that is well before the current issue of easily available on-line pornography. And sexual tourism has absolutely nothing to do with priests abusing minors and nuns, priests fathering children out of wedlock, and so forth. Moreover, neither of these societal problems has anything to do with the problem of the Church willfully covering all that up for all these years.

I read the Pope’s last two points as a way of deflecting the problems of the Church. The old “corrupted by this corrupt society” excuse. It is a way of signalling that the Church is pure, but must fight harder against the impurities from without. But the impurities are within the Church to a large degree. We must admit that there is an institutional problem that is the fault of the Church and its leadership, then take concrete steps to rectify that problem. I do not see this statement as moving in that direction.
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With 80 percent of victims Male, I just cant get around that. But it isn’t popular for the Church to address that right?
 
TMC said:
His last two points - referencing pornography and sexual tourism.
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Hmm. There have been, admitted by Pope Francis I believe, priests involved in pornography, and sexual tourism by priests and others in the Church is certainly not ruled out in the language. I don’t see why the group had to restrict their efforts to internal affairs.

Plenty of stuff goes on in the world that effects the people who run the institution, and these influences should not be ignored, right?
TMC said:
Moreover, neither of these societal problems has anything to do with the problem of the Church willfully covering all that up for all these years.
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Except that societies also cover up these ills. And priests and clergy are part of society.
TMC said:
I read the Pope’s last two points as a way of deflecting the problems of the Church. The old “corrupted by this corrupt society” excuse.
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Well, corruption by society happens, but the corruption also comes from natural human desire.

We’re all prone to corruption, right? Or are you perhaps deflecting? 🙂
TMC said:
We must admit that there is an institutional problem that is the fault of the Church and its leadership
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It’s my fault too. I remember finding out decades ago that a priest I loved was involved in molestations. I was devastated, and did not want to believe it. I cried for hours. I lashed out at the administrator involved for letting me know what I didn’t want to know. I certainly wanted to protect children, but I wanted to be far away from the whole issue. I did nothing, personally, to make sure the problem was addressed and relied on others’ words (the priest was eventually incarcerated, but that is beside the point).

Feel free to blame me for this, but I ask for your understanding.
 
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TMC said:
I read the Pope’s last two points as a way of deflecting the problems of the Church. The old “corrupted by this corrupt society” excuse.
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No…they are extending all the protection they can to children worldwide…because it is indeed a scourge. It is an eye opener for everyone who doesn t know. They are bringing up the issue of children affected one way or another in the millions.
And we are grateful. The issue of child abuse in different forms as trafficking, organ trafficking , and much more in other spots on earth is beyond words.They are still the hierarchy of our Church, no matter how rotten some of them have been. And extending further help and awareness will always be appreciated…
It adds, not subtracts.
And behind a child, there is a family and a society who has to be aware and do something as well. And quickly.
We are the Church… not only the hierarchy. We have to work together.
Listen…the fact that something may sound disconnected in our small world doesn t imply it may have to do in such a big world and so different to our little local world.
Let us add, not substract…
 
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Imagine how bad the world in general is, if these things can happen in the Church.
 
You should be reporting them then.
Concretely ,to the police.
 
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