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JKirkLVNV
Guest
They pulled down 75 for the High Mass I attended here in Las Vegas (I went to the vigil at my own parish, no worries that I didn’t fufill the obligation). That’s in a diocese with nearly 600, 000 Catholics.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
Kirk and Richard,
You need to check out your seminaries. They are empty, both diocesan and religious orders. Nobody wants to be a Novus Ordo presbyter.
The Pope will soon have to re-think ordination of women. Have you ever had a nun do one of those “communion service” deals at your church?
You get the priests you deserve.
BTW, Traditional Seminaries are bursting at the seams.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Ecclesia Dei is the ruling of a pope. An entire handful of cardinals doesn’t trump the Vicar of Christ on Earth. Now YOU, as a misguided laymen, may not be excommunicate (though you are warned by the same Vicar of Christ against the grave sin of schism by assisting at their masses), but your bishops certainly are and your priests are suspended. Their masses are illicit, their confessions invalid save in an emergency, and their marriages null.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
Wow, that’s really impressive. Can you image what would happen if they all try and go to Mass every Sunday! If the trend holds, you should be down to a manageable 100,000 in the next 20 years, with at least 3 priests per diocese.
In the Archdiocese of Baltimore, I believe we have more Auxilliary Bishops than regular priests!
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Not at all true. The numbers are down, but not empty. And I’ve heard it said that the “traditionalist” seminaries will accept anyone who tows the party line, ie, “they’ll throw a cassock on anybody” (to be fair, I’ve thought the same of our seminaries). Also, the SSPX had one of the priests that they formed actually try to kill the pope a few years back (John Paul II. In fairness, they HAD kicked him out, but that was after having kicked him out once, then taking him back. Still doesn’t say much about their formation). If some of the people who post on these forums make it to seminary, it’ll be because the SSPX are the only ones who take them. And let’s look at Bishop Williamson, shall we? A holocaust denier who has some mental hang-up on the movie " The Sound of Music." Yeah, you should be proud of the priests your group trains, esp. the priest here in Vegas, who says the Novus Ordo Mass is an abomination (whereby he anathematized himself, according to Trent).
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
LOL, you can’t even address the question! The SSPX commands a very tiny percentage of mass-going Catholics in North America. And in Vegas, my parish regularly brings in more converts at Easter than the number that attend the SSPX chapel regularly.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
Kirk,
I can’t believe you’re that nieve. The Cardinals and Bishops do whatever they please and if it pleases them to follow the Pope, they will, and if it pleases them to ignore him, they will without consequence. The Conference of Catholic Bishops rules the church in the US … no one else.
When JPII (Ecclesia Dei) asked that Bishops be generous in their application of the TLM in their diocese, a majority blew him off and still offer none. There’s generosity for you … there is that faithful devotion to the requests of a Pope. There is that anti-schismatic attitude.
The same thing will happen (already is happening in France) when the Pope issues his Motu. So please don’t bore us with how much the Cardinals and Bishops respect the wishes of the Pope.
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LilyM
Guest
No clapping - ever :nope: Literally one or two cases of handholding, quickly stamped out.
Rosary before or after Mass DAILY in most churches in this diocese, and plenty of people praying it during as well :yup:
contraception and plenty of other sins preached against from the pulpit, and (on an educated guess about most of 'em) condemned in the confessional as well (for which there is a healthy lineup by the way) :yup:
Don’t presume that you know all about the fruits of Novus Ordo parishes, and I’ll agree not to do the same for the TLM - not that I ever have.
I will say this - EVERY fruit of obedience to Rome may not be perfect, but every fruit of disobedience is tainted with rot. As your snide and totally inaccurate comments about me (and my fellow NO attendees) being ignorant of the Rosary and Indulgences shows.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
**I’m not trying to entertain you, so I’m less than concerned that you ****(“us?”)****might be bored. I’m trying to correct the egregious falsehoods that you are portraying as facts. **
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Richardols
Guest
In Little Rock, there are few Catholic churches that aren’t full at at least one of the Sunday Masses, and the Cathedral is always full on Sundays.
Meanwhile, the Schizzies keep having their charade down in Benton with 30-40 people.
I’d note that the Fraternity Tridentine Masses in North Little Rock always have a greater attendance than at the “chapel.”
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Richardols
Guest
Your response is no more than an ad hominem with no factual support.
A Pope’s request is different from a Pope’s command.
Oh? You believe that the Church would be wrong to oppose the sedevacantist schismatics?
T
Please do bore us with substantiation of your remarks.
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Richardols
Guest
Spot on, Lily.
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Richardols
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Richardols
Guest
Who knows? Maybe, they’ll someday be as large and influential as the Polish National Church or the Old Catholic Church, both who began as schismatics like the Lefebvrites.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
Lily,
I am not presuming anything. I am speaking from first-hand experience - 30 years in the Novus Ordo. So, yes, I do know the fuits of the Novus Ordo. And it is important to look at what has become of the church since the abrupt rupture with Tradition. People leaving the curch in droves, vocations down to a fraction of what they were previously, etc. It appears you prefer to keep your head in the sand. Browse the topics on this forum and take stock of what is going on in the modern church. I am perfectly qualified to charactise the typical modern Catholic, and I have in this thread. That your church is different, perhaps more reverant, more respectful of the Blessed Sacrament, is a gift. I would be the first to agree with that. There are some fabulous priests in the Novus Ordo who also bemoan what is happening but are assuring their churches stand out. Sounds like you are in one of them. But you are, without a doubt, the exception. I have NEVER seen a public rosary recited before a Novus Ordo Mass anywhere in the US, and I have lived on both coasts. In our local church, if the priest doesn’t like the volume of the congregation on the opening him, he’ll shout from the altar “I can’t hear you!!” and make the band play it over again. This is the abuse typical of the New Mass.
As far as the fruit of disobedience leading to rot, that was certainly not the case with St. Athanasius. My problem with the modern theology is religious indifferentism, which is error, and sin, and which we are bound not to obey.
And, most importantly,if every fruit of your obedience to “Rome” is not perfect and does not lead to your sanctification, then the smoke of Satan is in the room.
R
Richardols
Guest
For starters, try St. Stanislaus Kostka, Brooklyn, NY; Sts Simon & Jude, Brooklyn, NY; St. Anne’s, North Little Rock, AR, the Cathedral of St. Andrew, Little Rock, AR, Our Lady of Grace, Brooklyn, NY.
This abuse is so typical of the parishes in the U.S. that it merits mention?
Given that the Schizzies do not obey Rome, I can only guess that the stench of Hell thus permeates their “chapels.”
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giuseppeTO
Guest
Rich,
It’s common knowledge and not something you want to take on. And I am pretty busy here keeping bad guys out of airports, but why don’t you do some research on how many postulates are in the Jesuit and Redemptorist seminaries, and perhaps your diocese in the US and I’ll get the numbers on the Traddy seminaries, both in communion and imperfect communion.
R
Richardols
Guest
From the Short History of the SSPX, on the SSPX.org website, SSPX FAQs:
There are only six SSPX seminaries – one each in the U.S., Argentina, Australia, Switzerland, France, and Germany. They are not exactly bursting at the seams unless they are in lean-tos or tents – there are only 226 seminarians worldwide.
As of 2006, there are 336 priests in 27 countries, 50 brothers, and 53 oblates who serve in 130 priories and 600 “Mass centers.” Each “parishional” priests must visit about three centers each Sunday to serve them.
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Richardols
Guest
“Common knowledge”? That’s a copout. Numbers are numbers and substantiation is substantiation.
R
Richardols
Guest
Excerpted: (This article originally appeared in the July 2005 issue of Catholic World Report.)**
**
The universal Church has enjoyed spectacular growth in the number of seminarians since 1978. When John Paul II became Pope, there were 63,882 diocesan and religious seminarians studying philosophy and theology. Twenty-four consecutive years of growth brought the number to 112,643. The number fell back slightly to 112,373 in 2003, the last year for which full statistics are available. But that figure is still a 76 percent increase over the number for 1978.
In the midst of this worldwide vocation boom, however, the Church in the United States has suffered a vocation collapse. According to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, the total number of American diocesan and religious seminarians in college and theology seminary programs decreased from 9,021 in 1978 to 4,790 in 2003–a decline of nearly 47 percent. This has led to an increasing number of U.S. parishes being headed by foreign priests.
**
The universal Church has enjoyed spectacular growth in the number of seminarians since 1978. When John Paul II became Pope, there were 63,882 diocesan and religious seminarians studying philosophy and theology. Twenty-four consecutive years of growth brought the number to 112,643. The number fell back slightly to 112,373 in 2003, the last year for which full statistics are available. But that figure is still a 76 percent increase over the number for 1978.
In the midst of this worldwide vocation boom, however, the Church in the United States has suffered a vocation collapse. According to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, the total number of American diocesan and religious seminarians in college and theology seminary programs decreased from 9,021 in 1978 to 4,790 in 2003–a decline of nearly 47 percent. This has led to an increasing number of U.S. parishes being headed by foreign priests.
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