Power of the Rosary---is this True?

[edwinG]

Stylteralmaldo:

Catholics beleive that all of the saints are in union with God. Mary is an individual - but she is also in union with God. We are all special in the eyes of God. This does not however diminish Mary’s role in our lives.

We all have roles ordained by God. Right now I’m playing a role in your life and likewise you are playing a role in mine.

Take care and God bless.

Hi Styletalmaldo,
I dont understand your post, please help me. Ok we are all members of Christ body the church, of which He is the head. I see us as all brothers and sister and God as the Holy and Almighty Father. Now I suppose, but I dont know, that you see Mary as fitting somewhere else. Can you explain where she is in Christ body and if there is any scripture to support this.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

mrS4ntA:

Yes!

You walk in a art exhibit. You admire a painting, and the artist was there beside you. If you praise the painting, wouldn’t the artist be honoured? Or do you consider this action “de-humanising” to him and praise his fingers instead?

Hi mrS4ntA,
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer , I have overcome the world.
James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
God created both the man and gave this man the skill to paint. God is the Almighty Supplier. This man should not seek praise but himself should praise Almighty God in thankfullness.And we should not be the cause of pride in him, but praise God for the wonderful work.
Christ be with you http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

mrS4ntA:

Edwin,

I perused again through St Louis de Montfort’s work True Devotion (to the Blessed Virgin Mary), and come accross this little passage addressing some of your “concerns”, and it illustrated my points earlier on about how the Blessed Virgin leads one to a greater understanding and love of God:

"20. God the Holy Spirit, who does not produce any divine person, became fruitful through Mary whom he espoused. It was with her, in her and of her that he produced his masterpiece, God-made-man, and that he produces every day until the end of the world the members of the body of this adorable Head. For this reason the more he finds Mary his dear and inseparable spouse in a soul the more powerful and effective he becomes in producing Jesus Christ in that soul and that soul in Jesus Christ.

1. This does not mean that the Blessed Virgin confers on the Holy Spirit a fruitfulness which he does not already possess. Being God, he has the ability to produce just like the Father and the Son, although he does not use this power and so does not produce another divine person. But it does mean that the Holy Spirit chose to make use of our Blessed Lady, although he had no absolute need of her, in order to become actively fruitful in producing Jesus Christ and his members in her and by her. This is a mystery of grace unknown even to many of the most learned and spiritual of Christians."

Hi mrS4ntA,
Thanks for spending so much time on this post. I appreciate it and the time you are expending. The words are full of his education but to me they dont strike a cord. The words are very nice however, but I dont have any scripture to hold them up against.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[edwinG]

mrS4ntA:

How many “Holy Spirit(s)” do you think there are? Nothing can be wrong with the Holy Spirit; He is God!

Hi,
Well let us sing His praises, tell tales of His work in our lives so we can be uplifted and have our faith grow. Let’s put Him first and foremost above all others, as only one Name has complete authority and that is Christ Jesus. Can we shout out His name and shout out about the glorious work Christ does in us by the workings of the Holy Spirit.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[edwinG]

Stylteralmaldo:

It appears this thread is going around in circles. Unfortunately, written lanuage can be so easily taken out of context - particularly on a forum such as this. I hope edwinG undersands that the Holy Spirit thrives within the Catholic Church and within us…it’s up to him to recognize that…all we can do is give him the tools to find the answers on his own.

Having said that, if our conversations are only confusing the issue, it might be best to refer him to credible sources supporting our position.

Here’s a good tract on the Rosary. Enjoy the reading :

catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp

Hi Stylteralmaldo,
Yes I so want to believe that the Holy Spirit is truly active in your lives. As there are so many devoted Christians here, I expected to see a lot of people saying " hey guess what the Holy Spirit has just done in my life, WOW and then to see the word, the witness. I know this is an apologetics list, but when He blows you away surely you are excited and just want to shout it out.
Cant we have some noise here and a bit of joy amongst the haggling. I also suggest we all read Romans 14 and have a chat about the meaning of it.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[MariaG]

Where in Scripture does it say Mary is my mother?

The Catholic Church interprets the Scripture of when Christ was on the Cross and said to John, this is your mother, to relate to the whole Church. Others can explain in more detail, but that is the Scripture that Catholics are refering to when we say Mary is the Mother of the Church.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

p.s. did you see my posts #153 and #154

 

[dcdurel]

edwinG:

Hi Stylteralmaldo,
Cant we have some noise here and a bit of joy amongst the haggling. I also suggest we all read Romans 14 and have a chat about the meaning of it.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think the Holy Spirit is wonderful. He guides me through Jesus by His grace, which I have received by praying the Rosary, and at mass and at Eucharistic Adoration:

Look how the Holy Spirit led me to understand His inspired word in the following passages. This is all the work of the Holy Spirit!!!

  Jesus and the Holy Spirit often **will not answer our prayers, unless we go through a holy and righteous intercessor.**

At the desert when bitten by serpents, over 1 million Jews were there, and surely were praying to God for healing of their deadly snake bites. But God answered none of their prayers. He did not answer a single prayer of those 1 million people. So they asked Moses to pray for them. And God told Moses how to heal the people. ONLY Moses was able to help the people. . (Numbers 41)

   When the friends of Job complained about God, He was not happy.

7:" After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eli’phaz the Te’manite: “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.
8: Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.”

Only Job was able to help his friends. The sacrifice of the friends of Job was not sufficient. God also wanted Job to pray for them.(Job 42:8)

Lets read the New Testament.

When the wine ran out at the wedding feast at Cana. Jesus made it clear that His time had not come, and He was not about to perform a miracle for anyone else. But He did for Mary. ONLY Mary was able to help get more wine.

In the book of James, he recalls how it did not rain for 3 years. Just think, millions and millions of Jews praying for rain, day in and day out for weeks, months and years. God did not answer a single prayer that went directly to Him from those millions and millions of people. Of course He wanted them to pray to Him, but their prayers were not enough because of their pride and sinfulness. Only Elijah was able to help. (James 5:16-17)
Do you see what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach you through His Church? God wants us ALL to share in the work of salvation.

Thus, we see how the Holy Spirit inspired the sacred writers to make it clear that ofter our prayers directly to God are not enough. God wants us to use holy and righteous intercessors. At times, only these intercessors are able to help. ** At times only Mary is able to help.**

**Praise be to the Holy Spirit for inspiring all these passages. **
Praise be to His Church for teaching these things to us !!!

Why don’t you share in my joy for what the Holy Spirit has done??

 

[mrS4ntA]

edwinG:

Hi Gene C
Yes I would love to start a discussion on the fallacy of Sola Scriptura, but unfortunately I cant keep up with this one.LOL
Yes Jesus will be my brother and God my Father and Mary will be my sister, not my mother. I dont see Mary as being alive before God created the heavens and the earth, or before Adam and Eve… I dont see her as the source of the Almighty God, before Him and conceiving Him. Do you?
Christ be with you http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG

The title of “Mother of God” does NOT imply Mary’s pre-existence before God; only God is without beginning and end, and like we’ve countlessly said before, and I’ll quote St Louis for help, “[we] attest, with the whole Church, that Mary, being a mere creature of God, is but like an atom, ot rather, she is nothing at all, compared with the infitine majesty of God.”

The title, or officially in Greek “Theotokos” – “God-bearer”, was proclaimed to combat a heresy that dispute’s Christ’s humanity-divinity or His hypostatic union. The reasoning is thus:

1. Jesus is God.
2. Mary is Jesus’ Mother.
3. A mother gives birth to a Person, not a nature.
4. Therefore, Mary is the Mother of God…i.e. the “Mother of God.”

That being said, Mary is still a creature created by God, but her motherhood is so unique and in itself, a mystery. She is the Mother of God.

 

[mrS4ntA]

edwinG:

Hi Styletalmaldo,
I dont understand your post, please help me. Ok we are all members of Christ body the church, of which He is the head. I see us as all brothers and sister and God as the Holy and Almighty Father. Now I suppose, but I dont know, that you see Mary as fitting somewhere else. Can you explain where she is in Christ body and if there is any scripture to support this.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG

The Catholic mindset is not set in a rigid stone of “either-or” thinking. “Both-and” paradoxes are abundant in it, as in general theology of basic Christianity (consider the truths “God is One” and “God is Three” as both being true).

Mary, being the first who “receives the word of God and keeps it” it the first disciple of Christ, an exemplar and model par excellence of discipleship.

Yet she is also, as the mother of Christ, the mother of the Church. She is the intercessor of the pilgrim Church on earth and a partaker in her sanctification through Christ.

 

[mrS4ntA]

edwinG:

Hi mrS4ntA,
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer , I have overcome the world.
James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
God created both the man and gave this man the skill to paint. God is the Almighty Supplier. This man should not seek praise but himself should praise Almighty God in thankfullness.And we should not be the cause of pride in him, but praise God for the wonderful work.
Christ be with you http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG

OK… first of all, “the world” here refers to the empty longing of Man’s heart for the riches of the world, or the empty philosophies of secular thinking. It does NOT refer to the creation of God. For all that God creates is good. How many times does it say in Genesis that God thinks “it was good” after creating something? If God is all good, then all He creates is good. It’s up to sin to abuse/mis-use and corrupt it.

Secondly, that analogy was about the “praising”, not the painter! Also, in the analogy, the painter is God, the painting is creation. Get it?

 

[mrS4ntA]

edwinG:

Hi mrS4ntA,
Thanks for spending so much time on this post. I appreciate it and the time you are expending. The words are full of his education but to me they dont strike a cord. The words are very nice however, but I dont have any scripture to hold them up against.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

At least you can understand that we do not take any powers out of God when we say “Mary does this or that”?

St Louis constantly reminded us in the book, which talks so romantically passionate about Mary, that God does these not out of necessity, but out grace, and choice.

 

[mrS4ntA]

edwinG:

Hi,
Well let us sing His praises, tell tales of His work in our lives so we can be uplifted and have our faith grow. Let’s put Him first and foremost above all others, as only one Name has complete authority and that is Christ Jesus. Can we shout out His name and shout out about the glorious work Christ does in us by the workings of the Holy Spirit.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

No one forbids you (or us!) to do that. In fact, it is quite encouraged…

 

[edwinG]

mrS4ntA:

The Catholic mindset is not set in a rigid stone of “either-or” thinking. “Both-and” paradoxes are abundant in it, as in general theology of basic Christianity (consider the truths “God is One” and “God is Three” as both being true).

Mary, being the first who “receives the word of God and keeps it” it the first disciple of Christ, an exemplar and model par excellence of discipleship.

Yet she is also, as the mother of Christ, the mother of the Church. She is the intercessor of the pilgrim Church on earth and a partaker in her sanctification through Christ.

Hi, mrS4ntA,
I still cant find your answer in your reply. Christ is the Head of the Church. I am confident we agree on this. Now as Mary is the mother of God, where is she in the church, Christ’s body of which we are all members, being brothers and sisters of Christ. As Mary is not a brother or sister and not the head, where is she?

For my part I believe Jesus when He said, Mark 3:35 " For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

MariaG:

I believe you are right. I know I am not being patient. I also know that Christ is trying to teach me patience. I WANT IT NOW

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

Hi Maria,
I feel quite confident the Holy Spirit is talking to you. If you have to: go back to the very basics of Christianity. If you find peace there, move forward slowly if you cant stand still; and see where the anxiousness comes in. I think it was Paul, who after Jesus spotted him and after he regained his sight and received Christ went away by himself for 3 years before he came to the church. I cant dig up the quote,but you may remember it. Relax Maria, Christ is always on time, though sometimes he makes you run just a tad at the end, but you wont miss out, just be patient in God’s wisdom, as it is in His wisdom that He , God still has control of times and seasons. Christ has complete authority but in God’s time.
You seem to be facing a mountain with a shovel. If so, dont look at the mountain, ever. Remember it is one day, one day at a time, for tomorrow will bring its own problems. Live your life with joy, one day at a time.
Really Jesus makes me smile, He is so beautiful. I am not asking you to do this. You have to remember I have been blessed with circumstances which make it easy for my faith to grow. I am older and have no real responsibilities except to Christ. I live pay day to pay day. I also have a promise from Christ which makes me just relax in Him. Talk about insurance.anyway, back to the story.
I live in Thailand and travel on buses a fair bit, mostly local buses, which mean they are very basic. Western people are still the odd ones out when you get away from the CBD and large department stores in the suburban areas. In sincerity, when I see someone older or a lady etc or anyone else who my heart touches , I stand up for them. In no time at all, Christ started finding me seats. Time after time, I would think, not this time Jesus , you can find a seat for me on this bus and it is loaded with women standing. He is a master chess player. In a stop or two He has moved the people and found a seat for me. It is simply incredible. He also is a bit cheeky as well. I usually go to the back of the bus, but one day the bus stopped and I had to walk to it and felt obliged to go in the front door and lo and behold the only seat available was the first seat. I took it and found out that when you sit in the very front seat , a single seat, you cant see who or what is standing unless you deliberately look . I could talk for an hour about my experiences with Christ whilst travelling on buses. This is the parable of the wedding feast and sitting at the back of the hall and the host seeing you coming and honouring you by bringing you forward. He who exalts himself will be brought down and he who humbles himself will be exalted or similar.Now , I am not saying I was trying to humble myself, but God has made me this way and it is my blessing. In all situations He will lift you up. One day He gave me a back drivers side back seat in the scorching sunny side of the bus, and would you believe that the curve of the metal between the back and the side of the bus formed a shaded area that was the only shaded area in the bus. Even the driver was copping a blast and as it was later in the afternoon even the passengers on the other side of the bus were drenched in sunlight. All except me. I somehow had a cool breeze and no sun. Living in the kingdom of God means that the rules of earth dont apply. ie gravity, time, tiredness, strength, health etc. All of the natural laws are different in the kingdom of God.
I best stop.
my love to you Maria,
I have to start trying to live by Romans 14 , I think.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[omega63]

Hi I am new here and I am a bornagain christian now for 20 years. i was a hard core sinner until the Holy spirit came in and completely changed my life. So I cannot for the life of me understand all this catholic stuff praying to mary different saint. This all seems to be occultic or something. Just wondering. Tahnk you a

jrabs:

Sparkle,
This may help. These are the promises to those who devoutly say the rosary.

Besides the Indulgences attached to the Rosary, Our Lady revealed to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche additional benefits for those who devoutly pray the Rosary. Our Lady’s promise is shown in darker blue text. Additional explanation on and doctrinal connections to each promise is shown following in the smaller normal text font and color.

1.Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.
Signal Graces are those special and unique Graces to help sanctify us in our state in life.

1. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
2. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.
3. It will cause good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for Eternal Things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
4. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish. Since Our Lady is our Mother and Advocate, She always assists those who call on Her implicitly by praying the Rosary. The Church reminds us of this in the Memorare prayer, “… never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help or sought your intercession, was left unaided …”
5. Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life.
6. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
   This promise highlights the benefits of obtaining the most possible Graces at the hour of death via the Sacraments of Confession, Eucharist, and Anointing of the Sick.
7. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the Light of God and the plenitude of His Graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the Merits of the Saints in Paradise.
   Our Lady highlights the great quantity of Graces obtain through praying the Rosary, which assist us during life and at the moment of death.

9.I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
Should one require Purgatorial cleansing after death, Our Lady will make a special effort to obtain our release from Purgatory through Her intercession as Advocate.

continued:

 

[mtr01]

omega63:

Hi I am new here and I am a bornagain christian now for 20 years. i was a hard core sinner until the Holy spirit came in and completely changed my life. So I cannot for the life of me understand all this catholic stuff praying to mary different saint. This all seems to be occultic or something. Just wondering. Tahnk you a

Hi Omega,

If you are truly interested in the theological and biblical basis of intercessory prayer to Mary and the Saints, a good place to start would be these tracts from the host site:

Mary and the Saints

 

[dcdurel]

edwinG:

Hi, mrS4ntA,
I still cant find your answer in your reply. Christ is the Head of the Church. I am confident we agree on this. Now as Mary is the mother of God, where is she in the church, Christ’s body of which we are all members, being brothers and sisters of Christ. As Mary is not a brother or sister and not the head, where is she?

Mary is the mother of Christ.
We are all members of Christ’s body.
Thus, since Mary is the mother of Christ, and since we are members of Chirst’s body (the Church),
then Mary is the Mother of the Church, because Mary is the mother of Christ, whose body makes up the Church. .

That is why when Jesus was dying on the cross, only one apostle was there, the apostle John. He represented the Church, since Jesus made the apostles the leaders of the Church. Then Jesus told John, who represented the Church, “behold your mother” (refering to Mary). Thus, Jesus made Mary Mother of the Church.

Also, by baptism we have become adopted sons of God. Since Jesus is the Son of God, by baptism (adoption) we have beome His brother . Thus, since we are the sons of God by adoption, brothers of Jesus by adoption, and since Mary is the Mother of Jesus, then she has to be our Mother also. In other words, if Jesus is our brother by adoption, then we must have the same mother by adoption, Mary.

Again the Holy Spirit inspired the following:
---------- Revelation 12:17 ----------
17 Then the dragon was angry with
the woman, and went off to make war
on the rest of her offspring, on
those who keep the commandments of
God and bear testimony to Jesus. And
he stood on the sand of the sea.

Notice that the offspring of the woman (Mary) who gave birth to the savior, were those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. Thus again, the Holy Spirit inspired inscripture which says that Mary is our mother, the mother of Christians who keep the commandments and bear testimony to Jesus.

.

 

[TTM]

edwinG:

For my part I believe Jesus when He said, Mark 3:35 "For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.

Yes, and right you should.

However, here Jesus is not taking away the honor due to his Mother at all, but rather he is trying to make people think about what they are saying.

Take Mark 10:17-18 for example:

And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

was he denying that he is good, or that he is God? No. It’s the same thing.

Bless you!
TTM

 

[TTM]

dcdurel:

Mary is the mother of Christ. We are all members of Christ’s body. Thus, since Mary is the mother of Christ, and since we are members of Chirst’s body (the Church), then Mary is the Mother of the Church, because Mary is the mother of Christ, whose body makes up the Church…

Thanks, that was helpful.

Bless you!
TTM

 

[TTM]

Hi again,

edwinG:

Hi TTM,
Thanks for posting on this difficult issue.
“I’m the Lady of the Rosary,
only I will be able to help you”
seems very definite to me.
If your heart thinks this has a meaning of extras that Christ is not able to deliver, I hope this stands you in Christ’s love.
But to be honest I fear greatly that this is a trap. I am really saddened.

No problem.

Yes, it’s a very definite statement. However, you have to take it in context of her apparitions. In Fatima, if I’m not mistaken, she speaks about the serious situation that the world faces, and the chastisement which would befall on it, because of its sinfulness and ignorance toward God. Now, the World does deserve this, unfortunately. All sin has a price, and that is death. The Catholic understanding (and I hope I’m not misrepresenting this) is that sin has consequences in both eternity, and in time. Of course, we can intercede on behalf of the world, but let’s face it, none of us are all that holy, and sin does block our prayers (that’s why prayers of the righteous are powerful). Mary, being the Arc of the Covenant, is a very holy intercessor, and her prayers are very very powerful, especially because her Son honors her, as Solomon honored his mother’s prayers (I Kings 2:13-20).

So yah, you have to understand it in context, I think. Let’s not jump to conclusions.

Bless ya,
TTM