Premarital Sex - Regret

[Steve_Andersen]

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

and no I’m not trying to justify anything
one can’t control one’s feelings
and it would be “imperfect” to pretend to feelings I didn’t have

in fact I never said what it was I didn’t regret

 

[Lisa_N]

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

and no I’m not trying to justify anything
one can’t control one’s feelings
and it would be “imperfect” to pretend to feelings I didn’t have
in fact I never said what it was I didn’t regret

Pretty funny to think that pretending feelings you don’t believe would absolve you from the reality of your actions. Whatever, it’s between you and God.

Again, the point was what benefit is there in premarital sex? Compare this possible benefit—more things than dreamt of–to the potential damage caused and you don’t need the Bible to determine that the potential detrimental results outweigh the nebulous and so far undemonstrated benefits…dreamt of since apparently you can’t provide any. I think that was the point of the entire thread, that those of us can look back and wonder what we were thinking…

Lisa N

 

[Mt19_26]

I had premarital sex with my girlfriend (now my wife) and I regret it. We also cohabitated before getting married. I think a consequence of having premarital sex was the lost of the time that should have been spent learning to communicate and how to show verbal affection. Instead I “showed” my love for her physically. I was young and immature and thought what better way can there be to show my love for her than sharing myself with her. Now I see that was wrong. Very wrong. Our marriage ended up having communication problems and almost fell apart. We are now trying to learn what we should have learned before getting married.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

Lisa N:

Pretty funny to think that pretending feelings you don’t believe would absolve you from the reality of your actions. Whatever, it’s between you and God.

huh?

I was asked if I had regrets
I said no
Then I was asked how I expect absolution without regret
I said I don’t

I aid I wasn’t going to pretend to d=feelings I didn’t have
And I’m well aware of the reality of my actions
Lisa N:

Again, the point was what benefit is there in premarital sex?

Love, bonding, closeness, sharing, relationship building, comfort, oneness, fulfillment. children …… plain old fashion physical release?

Pretty much the same benefits of post-marital sex

Kind of reminds me of the old joke…… “What’s the difference between extra-martial sex and extra martial sex? A whole other dimension.”
Lisa N:

Compare this possible benefit—more things than dreamt of–to the potential damage caused and you don’t need the Bible to determine that the potential detrimental results outweigh the nebulous and so far undemonstrated benefits…dreamt of since apparently you can’t provide any. I think that was the point of the entire thread, that those of us can look back and wonder what we were thinking…

Lisa N

shrug

I thought the point of the thread was to take a poll on whether we had regrets or not

Not to solicit a series of “me too” remarks

If I ever look back and wonder what I was thinking it is usually in regards to leisure suits or other unfortunate incidents

I don’t have regrets for the people that God sent me to share my life

Perhaps I was just luckier in my choices than others or perhaps more discerning
Perhaps I’m just a moral cripple….I’d like to think not, though.

 

[Tlaloc]

mommy:

But the question is, did you have premarital sex, and do you now regret it or not? (Even if it was with your future spouse)

I’m not Catholic but no I don’t regret engaging in intimacies outside of marriage. Indeed I don’t see much if any benefit to waiting and slew of problems.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Tlaloc:

I’m not Catholic but no I don’t regret engaging in intimacies outside of marriage. Indeed I don’t see much if any benefit to waiting and slew of problems.

What problems do you see with waiting?

 

[Tlaloc]

Lisa4Catholics:

What problems do you see with waiting?

Stunted emotional growth, inability to determine if your relationship will work before committing to it, unhealthy views of sexuality in general, puts emphasis on marriage being a life goal rather than option, and so on.

 

[felra]

Tlaloc:

I’m not Catholic but no I don’t regret engaging in intimacies outside of marriage. Indeed I don’t see much if any benefit to waiting and slew of problems.

Umhhhh…from someone who prides themself on basing their opinions on the facts, funny that you should present as having such an experiental based opinion. Unless, since your 2/05 post you have since married. If this is the case, please accept my congratulations.

 

[Lisa_N]

Tlaloc:

Stunted emotional growth, inability to determine if your relationship will work before committing to it, unhealthy views of sexuality in general, puts emphasis on marriage being a life goal rather than option, and so on.

BAHAHAHA! Yes and who cares about the increased potential for STDs, unplanned pregnancies, and the realization that you are not at all special but are simply a member of a large and undistinguished cast?

And my heavens you think waiting for marriage creates an UNHEALTHY view of sexuality? How so?

Lisa N

 

[Tlaloc]

Lisa N:

BAHAHAHA! Yes and who cares about the increased potential for STDs, unplanned pregnancies, and the realization that you are not at all special but are simply a member of a large and undistinguished cast?

The first two can be amply prevented by intelligent use of birth control methods and knowing your partner’s history. I don’t understand what you mean by “the realization that you are not at all special but are simply a member of a large and undistinguished cast” so I’ll have to ask you to elaborate.

And my heavens you think waiting for marriage creates an UNHEALTHY view of sexuality? How so?

By confounding it with procreation, by castigating or even criminalizing sexual expression and experimentation, by viewing the vast array of human sexuality through a tiny little keyhole.

 

[Lisa_N]

Tlaloc:

The first two can be amply prevented by intelligent use of birth control methods and knowing your partner’s history…

Yeah right and people who are willing to engage in sex as a recreational actitivy are so chaste that you simply don’t need to worry about them if you “know” them. Do you really think all of the many thousands of cases of STDs are all stranger to stranger anonymous sex? Don’t you think most of the people who contracted an STD didn’t PLAN on that happening? Please get real here.

Tlaloc:

I don’t understand what you mean by “the realization that you are not at all special but are simply a member of a large and undistinguished cast” so I’ll have to ask you to elaborate…

You know perfectly well what I mean. If you wait until marriage, then your partners are obviously limited to that marital partner. The earlier you start engaging in sex the more likely you will have multiple partners. The more partners the less special they are. We all remember our first car. After that they are all sort of metal with wheels. Same with sexual partners. If you don’t care who YOU sleep with, the kind of people who are willing to stoop to the same level are every bit as lacking in discrimination and unique quality.

Tlaloc:

By confounding it with procreation, by castigating or even criminalizing sexual expression and experimentation, by viewing the vast array of human sexuality through a tiny little keyhole.

Actually believe it or not Tlaloc, sex WAS actually created for procreation. It is not 'counfounded" by procreation. That is actually part of the design of our bodies and what we do with them. Didn’t you take biology? That sex can be pleasureable simply means the activity is more likely to happen and to result in procreation. We are wonderfully and fearfully made.

I am not sure how you equate a marital bond (male female marriage) with “looking at human sexuality through a keyhole.” By expanding your list of partners to the cast of thousands hardly makes the activity more meaningful. If all you want is a release, heck you don’t even need a partner.

As to criminalizing sexual expression, sure, when it involves minors, force, partners who do not have the capacity to agree, spreading of disease or coercion of the partner. A couple of adults can do whatever they want. I have not heard of any criminal laws against sexual activities of consenting, capable adults have you?

Lisa N

 

[Tlaloc]

Lisa N:

Yeah right and people who are willing to engage in sex as a recreational actitivy are so chaste that you simply don’t need to worry about them if you “know” them. Do you really think all of the many thousands of cases of STDs are all stranger to stranger anonymous sex? Don’t you think most of the people who contracted an STD didn’t PLAN on that happening? Please get real here.

Continuing your tradition of claiming things I never said.

What I said: STDs and unwanted pregnancies can be controlled through responsible use of birth control and knowing a partner’s history.
What you heard: Everyone uses birth control responsibly and knows their partners histories so clearly all STDs and unplanned pregnancies are planned!

You know perfectly well what I mean.

No actually I didn’t. That’s why I asked you to elaborate.

If you wait until marriage, then your partners are obviously limited to that marital partner.

Heh, yeah cause nobody ever cheats. Sorry, go on.

The earlier you start engaging in sex the more likely you will have multiple partners. The more partners the less special they are.

No. All of my partners are special to me. The latest no less than the first and vice versa.

We all remember our first car. After that they are all sort of metal with wheels. Same with sexual partners.

Or maybe that’s just you and you shouldn’t assume it applies to everyone. Personally I regard my lovers a great deal more than some hunk of detroit steel.

If you don’t care who YOU sleep with, the kind of people who are willing to stoop to the same level are every bit as lacking in discrimination and unique quality.

Of course I care who I sleep with.

Actually believe it or not Tlaloc, sex WAS actually created for procreation. It is not 'counfounded" by procreation.

Regarding all sexual experience as purely for the purpose of procreation is confounding it with procreation. Sex evolved for that purpose but just like the rest of our psychology it has developed into much much more than just making babies.

That is actually part of the design of our bodies and what we do with them. Didn’t you take biology?

Yes indeed I did, along with psychology, sociology, physics, chemistry, political science, calculus, and so on.

I am not sure how you equate a marital bond (male female marriage) with “looking at human sexuality through a keyhole.”

Seeing the vast array of human sexuality in terms of only one goal and with only one possible partner is the keyhole.

By expanding your list of partners to the cast of thousands hardly makes the activity more meaningful.

No but it can mean you are relating to sexuality in a more mature way. Of course “thousands” seems pretty excessive. The question isn’t how many people you sleep with but rather your attitude toward sex in general.

If all you want is a release, heck you don’t even need a partner.

True, but you tend to frown on that too? Keyhole.

As to criminalizing sexual expression, sure, when it involves minors, force, partners who do not have the capacity to agree, spreading of disease or coercion of the partner. A couple of adults can do whatever they want. I have not heard of any criminal laws against sexual activities of consenting, capable adults have you?

Yes and I imagine you have to. Many states still have anti-sodomy laws. Some also have laws forbidding oral sex. These are never enforced but remain on the books as unfortunate reminders of our more brutish past with regards to sexuality.

 

[Lisa_N]

Tlaloc get real. How can you KNOW a partner’s history if you were not THE one and only? As I pointed out, do you think all of the people who contracted STDs were engaged in sex with people they don’t know? That they didn’t trust to be clean? Let’s face it, not everyone wants to detail their sex lives and sometimes people do not know if they are carrying an STD. Realize that if you have sex as a recreational activity you are going to attract partners with a similar behavior patterns. When you have sex with someone, in effect you are sharing the experience with every single partner he or she has had in the past and every other partner those partners had in the past. Yuck! Sorry but I can’t see the appeal in that. YMMV obviously.

As to birth control, there is no 100% method other than complete abstinence. Again, get real. Do you think that even with use of birth control that you are really protected? Ask a few men who have suddenly been slapped with a paternity suit when they though Sweetums was on the Pill. Not to mention the side effects created by use of certain methods. But I guess it doesn’t matter to you that your partner is increasing her risk of stroke, cancer, etc. All that matters is the pleasure of that moment.

The risk of sex with multiple partners, sex at an early age, extramarital sex is far greater than any perceived lack of sophistication with the kind of bizarre practices that you think are necessary to a complete sexual education. I don’t think you’ve made much of a case.

As to anti sodomy laws, if there are any do you really think anyone is prosecuting them? Especially after the Lawrence case?

Lisa N

 

[Tlaloc]

Lisa N:

Tlaloc get real. How can you KNOW a partner’s history if you were not THE one and only?

Lisa you never can know absolutely for sure, even if they are the one and only. They may be the one and only for a lot of other people before you. If you don’t screen your partners for consumate liars you’re likely to get in trouble regardless of how many or how few partners you have.

As I pointed out, do you think all of the people who contracted STDs were engaged in sex with people they don’t know? That they didn’t trust to be clean? Let’s face it, not everyone wants to detail their sex lives and sometimes people do not know if they are carrying an STD.

You get tested, and you don’t sleep with people who won’t be honest about their history.

Realize that if you have sex as a recreational activity you are going to attract partners with a similar behavior patterns.

I certainly hope so. Virgins are dreadfully boring lovers.

When you have sex with someone, in effect you are sharing the experience with every single partner he or she has had in the past and every other partner those partners had in the past. Yuck! Sorry but I can’t see the appeal in that. YMMV obviously.

Indeed. You are also sharing the lessons they’ve learned from every past lover and reaping the benefit of all their experience. Yummy!

As to birth control, there is no 100% method other than complete abstinence. Again, get real.

While not 100% many forms are close enough as to make no real difference. I’ve been with my current girlfriend for about three years and we’ve had no accidental pregnancies.

Do you think that even with use of birth control that you are really protected? Ask a few men who have suddenly been slapped with a paternity suit when they though Sweetums was on the Pill.

Again if you choose a partner you can’t trust then yeah you’ll get in trouble. Thats the same for married or unmarried couples.

Not to mention the side effects created by use of certain methods. But I guess it doesn’t matter to you that your partner is increasing her risk of stroke, cancer, etc. All that matters is the pleasure of that moment.

Typical of you to always assume the worst about anyone who disagrees with you. We were using depo provera but in light of the recently discovered problems with calcium loss when used for long periods we’ve switched. Personally I’m considering a vasectomy.

The risk of sex with multiple partners, sex at an early age, extramarital sex is far greater than any perceived lack of sophistication with the kind of bizarre practices that you think are necessary to a complete sexual education. I don’t think you’ve made much of a case.

Of course you don’t but your mind was never even slightly open to any view but yours so I don’t rely on your assessment of the situation. You continue to see the world through your keyhole and don’t understand why it doesn’t work the way it ought to if your keyhole view were accurate. Que Sera Sera.

As to anti sodomy laws, if there are any do you really think anyone is prosecuting them? Especially after the Lawrence case?

Did you read the part where I said:
“These are never enforced but remain on the books as unfortunate reminders of our more brutish past with regards to sexuality.”

 

[Tlaloc]

Ironically enough there’s another thread on the list right now that indicates the difficulty of waiting until marriage:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=493650

The individual in question is now trapped in a relationship where he is apparently sexually incompatible with his “one and only.”

What do you say to such a person, lisa? “Sucks to be you”?

Assuming they are devoutly Catholic they’ll live out the rest of their years constantly frustrated (or at least until their own libido wanes). Or they’ll find release in some manner which the strictures they live under forbid, thus causing huge guilt. That’s not “valuing” either sex or marriage, that’s just Russian Roulette.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

Lisa4Catholics:

What problems do you see with waiting?

What if you find out that you’re …incompatible? (to keep this G rated)

There is another thread called “Frustration” on this forum where some unfortunate poster has a crisis on his hands
One I’m all too familiar with

People aren’t all the same off the rack

Of course I know that sex isn’t everything and what you do the other 23 hours of the day is also very important BUT
Since sex and money are the main cause for fights, separations, divorces … murders
And since marriage is (ideally) a life long commitment
It seems foolish to go off half-cocked (no pun intended)

Why set yourself up for a potential lifetime of disappointment?
It is not fair to either party
Marriage is supposed to be a happy thing

The problem a lot of people have is that they get wrapped up in sex only as a once and a while special sneak thing before the wedding so that when they do get together with their partner it is Easter, Christmas and the 4th of July all at once

This is totally divorced from the day to day realities of life which have to do with dirty socks and flatulence and runny nosed kids and in-laws and checkbooks and life goals……

Only after you spent an extended period of time with someone
When you have time to learn their foibles, quirks, and habits
Then you can make an informed decision regarding a lifelong commitment

But swearing to God to spend a lifetime living with a person as well as “ to have and hold” without any idea of what it is actually like to live with that person or have or hold them seems like a invitation to a problem.

 

[felra]

Tlaloc:

The individual in question is now trapped in a relationship where he is apparently sexually incompatible with his “one and only.”

What do you say to such a person, lisa? “Sucks to be you”?

Assuming they are devoutly Catholic they’ll live out the rest of their years constantly frustrated (or at least until their own libido wanes). Or they’ll find release in some manner which the strictures they live under forbid, thus causing huge guilt. That’s not “valuing” either sex or marriage, that’s just Russian Roulette.

Assuming they are devoutly Catholic, they have the Cross of Christ and the model of Mary and Joseph available to them. They are not left to their own limited resources, but can avail themselves of supernatural helps via God’s grace to grow profoundly in their love for each other.

By the saving power of the Cross, they can live the rest of their years growing in virtue and more perfect love for each other. As devout Catholics, they have the chase love of Mary and Joseph to draw upon as a model for their marriage.

Without faith, self-absorption and despair are a logical outcome for such a couple, as you readily point out. Only the faith and the saving power of the Cross can save such a couple from this outcome. A radical paradigm shift for those who only believe in themselves to save themselves from difficult situations.

1 Corinthians**, *Chapter 1:18 ****“*The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

 

[felra]

Steve Andersen:

Only after you spent an extended period of time with someone
When you have time to learn their foibles, quirks, and habits
Then you can make an informed decision regarding a lifelong commitment.

But swearing to God to spend a lifetime living with a person as well as “ to have and hold” without any idea of what it is actually like to live with that person or have or hold them seems like a invitation to a problem.

I totally agree, it’s called courtship. And the best thing is that when properly done it is guilt and sin free and has worked for generations…at least before this media indoctrinated, “enlightened” and sophisticated generation came along.

For preview of what courship entails, see Dr. James Dobson’s book “Making Love Last for a Lifetime”.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

………I certainly hope so. Virgins are dreadfully boring lovers……

You know Lisa he’s got a point there

There is a definite reason that I’m engaged to someone 13 years older than I

Nothing succeeds like success after all

Of course (as usual) this reminds me of the old joke

An old couple had been married for 60 years

And one day when they’re sitting reading the paper the wife suddenly cold cocks the husband
Bam! Right across the face!

“What was that for?” He sputters.

“That’s for being a lousy lover!” She says and with a “harrumph” she returns to reading her paper

He sits there for a few minutes, stunned, and then Bam! He hits her back.

“What was that for?” She cries.

“That’s for knowing the difference!”

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Steve Andersen:

What if you find out that you’re …incompatible? (to keep this G rated)

There is another thread called “Frustration” on this forum where some unfortunate poster has a crisis on his hands
One I’m all too familiar with

People aren’t all the same off the rack

Of course I know that sex isn’t everything and what you do the other 23 hours of the day is also very important BUT
Since sex and money are the main cause for fights, separations, divorces … murders
And since marriage is (ideally) a life long commitment
It seems foolish to go off half-cocked (no pun intended)

Why set yourself up for a potential lifetime of disappointment?
It is not fair to either party
Marriage is supposed to be a happy thing

The problem a lot of people have is that they get wrapped up in sex only as a once and a while special sneak thing before the wedding so that when they do get together with their partner it is Easter, Christmas and the 4th of July all at once

This is totally divorced from the day to day realities of life which have to do with dirty socks and flatulence and runny nosed kids and in-laws and checkbooks and life goals……

Only after you spent an extended period of time with someone
When you have time to learn their foibles, quirks, and habits
Then you can make an informed decision regarding a lifelong commitment

But swearing to God to spend a lifetime living with a person as well as “ to have and hold” without any idea of what it is actually like to live with that person or have or hold them seems like a invitation to a problem.

First Tlaloc and now you:nope: You guys are killing me:crying: http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage45/20.gif